NHL '11 - '12 Thread

[357]

Originally Posted by icehog3

Great Pens-Flyers game, a lot of character shown by Philly.

Two lucky goals by the Preds to beat the Wings 3-2, I am still not convinced.

I agree. Wings outplayed the Preds in the 2nd and 3rd, big time.

Originally Posted by Ahbroody

I agree Preds goals two were odd, but the Preds speed created the first odd goal. Won the race and got the lucky redirect. Did not like Weber slamming Zs head into the glass at end of game. Wonder if anything will come out of that.

I have a feeling Weber gets 1 game suspension for that move. Total bush league. If it was regular season it would be 5 games. The game was over. This was not a check where his target moved or put his head down last minute. First he punched him in the back of the head, then grabs his head and slams his face into the boards. It doesn't get more blatant than that.

If the Wings play the same way tomorrow as they did in the last 2 periods of that game, they'll win game 2 for sure.

[mithrilG60]

Originally Posted by 357

I have a feeling Weber gets 1 game suspension for that move. Total bush league. If it was regular season it would be 5 games. The game was over. This was not a check where his target moved or put his head down last minute. First he punched him in the back of the head, then grabs his head and slams his face into the boards. It doesn't get more blatant than that.

Nope, just $2500 fine and a stern "We'll take this into account if you're a naughty boy again in these playoffs". Yet Bitz has a hearing with Shannahan over his hit on Clifford which likely means at least a game. I fail to see how the NHL can possibly say the Bitz hit is suspendable if the Weber WWE head-to-the-turnbuckle move isn't. BOTH actions should result in suspensions. More inconsistency from the league, how the hell are they supposed to change any behaviour when they constantly send the players mixed messages on what is and what isn't acceptable behaviour?

[Ahbroody]

Originally Posted by mithrilG60

Bitz should get a game for that hit, but he may get away with time served given that the LA player was so low Bitz would have had to lift his elbow to avoid him.

If u look at it honestly this argument is laughable. Clifford was already engaged with another player battling for puck. Bitz raised his elbow and skated towards a player facing the boards who was already engaged with another player and deliberatly delivered an elbow shot to the face. This is exactly the hit the league wants out of the game. Watch the hit honestly. He lifts and cocks the elbow then skates at clifford. He made zero effort to play the puck. ZERO. His whole intent was deliver the hit.

Originally Posted by 357

I have a feeling Weber gets 1 game suspension for that move. Total bush league. If it was regular season it would be 5 games. The game was over. This was not a check where his target moved or put his head down last minute. First he punched him in the back of the head, then grabs his head and slams his face into the boards. It doesn't get more blatant than that.

I agree it was not good. 5 games. 5 games in the regular season? Mike the punch to the back of the head that happened first happens in almost every game and after the whistle constantly. Its honestly a non factor. The hulk smash was bad but no apparent injury.

Originally Posted by mithrilG60

Nope, just $2500 fine and a stern "We'll take this into account if you're a naughty boy again in these playoffs". Yet Bitz has a hearing with Shannahan over his hit on Clifford which likely means at least a game. I fail to see how the NHL can possibly say the Bitz hit is suspendable if the Weber WWE head-to-the-turnbuckle move isn't. BOTH actions should result in suspensions. More inconsistency from the league, how the hell are they supposed to change any behaviour when they constantly send the players mixed messages on what is and what isn't acceptable behaviour?

Two players who are involved in a battle on the boards and one goes to far and goes WWE is not the same as a player targeting a players head who he is not engaged with. Z and Weber were engaged in a battle on the boards together. Again Bitz came a fair distance with his elbow raised and cocked and intentionally hits Cliffords face with his elbow. Who he was not engaged with. Weber got heated and went to far. In the moment. Vs calculated intent to deliver a blow to the head.

[357]

Originally Posted by mithrilG60

Nope, just $2500 fine and a stern "We'll take this into account if you're a naughty boy again in these playoffs". Yet Bitz has a hearing with Shannahan over his hit on Clifford which likely means at least a game. I fail to see how the NHL can possibly say the Bitz hit is suspendable if the Weber WWE head-to-the-turnbuckle move isn't. BOTH actions should result in suspensions. More inconsistency from the league, how the hell are they supposed to change any behaviour when they constantly send the players mixed messages on what is and what isn't acceptable behaviour?

What's rediculous to me is that they factor the net result into the punishment. Apparently intent is not important as net result. So if I take my skate off and try to slit someone's throat but fail, I'll just get a fine. However, if I'm biting my fingernail and it flies off, hits someone in the eye resulting in vision loss I'll be banned from the league for life. Granted I know these are extreme and over-the-top examples, but it seems to be what would happen if you follow the league's logic (or lack thereof).

Wouldn't they be better off severly punishing all players who intend to injur rather than just those who succeed?

[357]

Originally Posted by Ahbroody

I agree it was not good. 5 games. 5 games in the regular season? Mike the punch to the back of the head that happened first happens in almost every game and after the whistle constantly. Its honestly a non factor. The hulk smash was bad but no apparent injury.


Two players who are involved in a battle on the boards and one goes to far and goes WWE is not the same as a player targeting a players head who he is not engaged with. Z and Weber were engaged in a battle on the boards together.

I disagree. Z was on the ice trying to stand up. The play was over, the puck was far away, and the GAME WAS OVER. Watch the video:

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/hocke...hit/54204916/1

The puck is 30 ft away and the clock reads 00.0. when Weber smashes his face into the boards. How is this WWE move in any way related to a "hockey move/play"? There was no battle for a puck that was 30 ft away. That play was long over. Going to far is crosschecking while trying to knock a guy off the puck, not face-smashing him from behind when the puck's long gone. You can't associate that crap with any hockey play.

[icehog3]

Originally Posted by 357

He's pridicted the Wings would lose all 4 cup finals they've won recently: 97, 98, 2002, 2008. Wings won those series': 4-0, 4-0, 4-1, and 4-2 respectively. He's a DB. No offense Tom.

He's no Admiral.....

[icehog3]

Originally Posted by mithrilG60

Nope, just $2500 fine and a stern "We'll take this into account if you're a naughty boy again in these playoffs". Yet Bitz has a hearing with Shannahan over his hit on Clifford which likely means at least a game. I fail to see how the NHL can possibly say the Bitz hit is suspendable if the Weber WWE head-to-the-turnbuckle move isn't. BOTH actions should result in suspensions. More inconsistency from the league, how the hell are they supposed to change any behaviour when they constantly send the players mixed messages on what is and what isn't acceptable behaviour?

Agreed....Weber should get a game if the NHL really wants to take "hits" to the head out of the game.

$2500 to Weber at 7MIL per season if comparable to a guy making $50,000 a year getting a $15 fine. Freaking joke.

[Ahbroody]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uV4Ew...e_gdata_player
Mike when the punch to the back of the head is delivered the puck is in Zs feet. The hulk smash occurs maybe 2-3 seconds after that and is a continuation. Weber has no idea the puck has left he is in the moment and has gone over the edge. Come on man. Im not saying its not dirty. It is dirty. I am saying its playoff hockey and I can see why the league sees it as a Weber just going over the edge. As opposed to Bitz which was calculated. I could see a game, but no injury and playoffs equals fine. The puck traveled that 30 feet in 1 second mike. 1 second. Okay maybe 2 seconds tops. About the length of time it took Weber to give some Nashville fans a very close look at Zs lips.

[357]

Quincy got a 1 game suspension for leaving his feet and hitting Kopecky in the head (as he should BTW):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxXKgXGorpU

Weber gets $2500 fine for "turnbuckling" Zetterberg:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XiMgjO0EgtE

I see Quincy trying to lay a hit on a guy with the puck. He want too far and hit too high. Not sure if Kopecky finished that game. Kopecky played the following game. Result = Quincy suspension.

Weber, trying to hurt a star player for the Wings who did not provoke him or the Preds, made no play to remove the player from the puck. Result = slap on the wrist fine.

My issue is the inconsistency. One infraction is clearly worse than the other both by intent and by resulting injury; yet the worse offense gets the lighter penalty. I know it's the playoffs but that shouldn't mean no suspensions. IMO they are encouraging this kind of garbage by not giving at least a 1 game suspension.

[mithrilG60]

Originally Posted by Ahbroody

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uV4Ew...e_gdata_player
Mike when the punch to the back of the head is delivered the puck is in Zs feet. The hulk smash occurs maybe 2-3 seconds after that and is a continuation. Weber has no idea the puck has left he is in the moment and has gone over the edge. Come on man. Im not saying its not dirty. It is dirty. I am saying its playoff hockey and I can see why the league sees it as a Weber just going over the edge. As opposed to Bitz which was calculated. I could see a game, but no injury and playoffs equals fine. The puck traveled that 30 feet in 1 second mike. 1 second. Okay maybe 2 seconds tops. About the length of time it took Weber to give some Nashville fans a very close look at Zs lips.

What you're not mentioning is this all occurred after the game had ended. In as much as Bitz's hit ended up being illegal, and he should be suspended for it, he was also just trying to clean out an opposing player to free a puck being fought for on the boards. That play happens dozens of times each game and is completely valid part of hockey. Bitz's hit was illegal only because Clifford was in a vulernable position at the time of impact and Bitz should have therefore not completed, other than that it was an normal hockey play.

On the other hand there is absolutely no way anyone can claim Weber's head smash on Z to be a "hockey play" with anything resembling a straight face. That is why I say that if the NHL is setting the bar such that an incident like Weber's is not suspendable there is no way an incident like Btiz's should be. To me they are both deserving of suspension, and the fact that Weber wasn't is just another example in a long line of ball drops on the league's behalf.

[icehog3]

I think the Wings should pool together $20,000, and that Kronwall should smash Weber, Suter, Radulov, Erat, Rinne, Hornqvist, Bourque and Kostitsyn's faces all into the glass tomorrow.

[Ahbroody]

Geoff and Mike the league is trying to stop premeditated hits to the head. Where a player sees it and decides hes vulnerable I am going to wreck him. He takes the time goes out of his way and intends to injure. Weber hit very dirty infact arguably more dangerous. Difference is atleast I think is Weber is battling and snaps. Bitz sees a vulnerable player and decides to try to injure. He gets the elbow up takes multiple strides lines up the head and drives the elbow into the face and into the glass.

[Ahbroody]

Originally Posted by icehog3

I think the Wings should pool together $20,000, and that Kronwall should smash Weber, Suter, Radulov, Erat, Rinne, Hornqvist, Bourque and Kostitsyn's faces all into the glass tomorrow.

I bet theres a pool and Everyone wants to see weber kronwalled. Bertuzzi is the scariest person in the league. The league really has created a powder keg here thinking about it.

[GreekGodX]

An intentional face smash into the glass like that and no suspension? Unbelievable. It was not even a hockey play. There is little room for argument for Weber that he did not intend to injure Z on that play. There is no other reason for it. The fine is laughable and will not prevent that from happening again. What does Z need to do? Pretend to be injured next time and get taken out on a stretcher to draw more attention to it? I'm appalled by the NHL's decision.

[mithrilG60]

Originally Posted by Ahbroody

Geoff and Mike the league is trying to stop premeditated hits to the head. Where a player sees it and decides hes vulnerable I am going to wreck him. He takes the time goes out of his way and intends to injure. Weber hit very dirty infact arguably more dangerous. Difference is atleast I think is Weber is battling and snaps. Bitz sees a vulnerable player and decides to try to injure. He gets the elbow up takes multiple strides lines up the head and drives the elbow into the face and into the glass.

I think you're reading waaaaaaay more intent into the Bitz hit than was ever there. Bitz was braced for a normal shoulder to body impact with a player playing the puck, he was not leading with his elbow. The only reason Bitz's elbow caught Clifford's head was because Clifford was low. Bitz should have absolutely recognized that Clifford was in a vulnerable position and pulled out of the check, the fact that he didn't is why that play was definitely worthy 5 and the game + a suspension. But intent to injure? On a play that in every other sense was a completely normal hockey play that happens dozens of time in every game? And especially when compared to Weber slamming Z's face into the glass after their game had ended? Not a chance.

FLYERS!!! That's all I got!

But in all seriousness, that game was the ultimate roller coaster. Looking forward to the rest of the series.

[Bigwaved]

Good start

[icehog3]

Hawks tie it up with 14.22 seconds left in the 3rd! Seabrook!!

Andrew Shaw with the game winner?

[357]

Originally Posted by Ahbroody

Geoff and Mike the league is trying to stop premeditated hits to the head. Where a player sees it and decides hes vulnerable I am going to wreck him. He takes the time goes out of his way and intends to injure. Weber hit very dirty infact arguably more dangerous. Difference is atleast I think is Weber is battling and snaps. Bitz sees a vulnerable player and decides to try to injure. He gets the elbow up takes multiple strides lines up the head and drives the elbow into the face and into the glass.

So you're asseting that Weber didn't think that the guy kneeling on the ice in front of him, that he just punched in the back of the head, was in a vulnerable position?

That's the worst argument I've ever heard.

What's worse is yesterday during practice Predator players were reinacting the entire thing, mocking Zetterberg, and IMO the NHL's lame reaction.

http://www.hockeyworldblog.com/2012/...rg-head-smash/

Here's the photo of Andrei Kostitsyn and Shea Weber performing the mock Zetterberg Head Smash:

[Ahbroody]

Mike as usual discussing things with you is the moving ever changing discussion. As usual I am walking away after this post as you will just change the focus again.

First you made it sound like the puck was long gone ignoring it was max 2 whole seconds after the puck was in his feet and a continuation of their scrum. After that was exposed as crap by the video u said consistency. Which I didnt disagree with. Again this is worse then the bitz hit, but I already ventured a guess as to y the league didnt suspend here.

Now Z is kneeling on the ice infront of him? I encourage anyone reading this thread to watch the video link and see why debating u is useless. He is not "kneeling on the ice" when Weber goes Hulk smash. You have completely fabricated those facts. His knees are bent slightly but far from the ice. If his knees were on the ice he would need to be taller then Chara to have his face smashed into the glass that high up. Have fun and go stretch the truth about something else.
And to end the lie that is being repeated he did it after the game was over... Here you two go
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XiMgj...e_gdata_player
There is video proof the buzzer had not yet sounded. So stop lying and saying the game was over. The penalty was issued at 20:00 because that was the stopage of play. I would expect people to understand that.

Was it a dirty hit? Yup. Was it suspendable? Yup. I just said why i didnt think they would and I think I was accurate in what they decided and Y.

Dont know what you want me to say about them mocking. I am not a Preds fan.