NFL's new safety policy

[chippewastud79]

Originally Posted by yachties23

Hatred is such a strong word, but yes I am biased. This is America where the court of public opinion rules, and just based off what I see on the field, and the issues with his character, yes I'm going to assume he cheats. If that makes me a bad person, or judge-mental, so be it.

You were using Harrison as an example of the lax enforcement on the performance-enhancing drug testing policies of the NFL. Whether or not he takes them (or may ever be caught), the fact is, the league is one of the most oft tested and stringent in their testing of the major sports.

[yourchoice]

Originally Posted by shilala

The fact that he's still there attests to the Rooney family. The fans trust them because they have taken care of us, and have set the highest standards in the NFL for generations. I can trust that they left no stone unturned and know the full truth of all Ben's transgressions. I can assure you there are many more you haven't heard about, and that the organization has since reigned him in. Despite that, he remains on thin ice.
If the Rooney's kept him and are willing to vouch for him and work with him to make an outstanding human out of him, I've got to be behind them.

I'm sorry Scott, but I think "the Rooney family setting the highest standards" is hogwash. They've done a good job painting that picture, but their actions don't match their words. Some examples:
Najeh Davenport - charged with child endangerment and unlawful restraint. He was cut (Way to go Rooney!!!). But when the Steelers needed help at RB 3 months later...well, let's bring him back (He's reformed!!!!).
Cedric Wilson vs. James Harrison - within 1 1/2 weeks of each other, both were charged with domestic abuse. One was cut the other retained. Double standard?
Santonio Holmes - was permitted three or four strikes before he was traded.
Jeff Reed - First charged with disorderly conduct and criminal mischief, and later on a seperate instance, charged with resisting arrest, simple assault, disorderly conduct, and public drunkenness. Grounds for cutting, or at least not resigning? No, he kicked the ball well at Heinz field, so they slapped the franchise tag on him and paid him close to $3M after those incendents.
Ben Rothlesberger - don't even have to go there.

Most of this is all since 2008...3+ years! "Highest Standard" my ass.

And this is all of the off-field stuff. It's the way they play that makes me call them dirty. All teams have off the field issues, but the Rooney family shouldn't act like they hold their players to a higher standard when their actions clearly show they don't.

Originally Posted by shilala

but I'll let you know what the Steeler Nation thought about Big Ben.

There's not a single Steeler fan who wasn't shocked when he hit the field this year. .

Sorry Scott, but all you have to do to see that that statement is not true is go read the Steeler thread right here on CA.

Without even going back and looking I can think of at least Loki on this forum and Mikey too I believe who defended Rothlisberger through hell and high water, regardless of the evidence of the things he's done off the field.

[shilala]

Originally Posted by Resipsa

Sorry Scott, but all you have to do to see that that statement is not true is go read the Steeler thread right here on CA.

Without even going back and looking I can think of at least Loki on this forum and Mikey too I believe who defended Rothlisberger through hell and high water, regardless of the evidence of the things he's done off the field.

You make me cry, Vic.
As with everything, there's nothing black and white. It's good you guys took up for him. I sure didn't. I still don't. Everyone I know still says stuff like "the raper had a nice game today". He certainly isn't loved like he used to be. You can hear him referred to as the raper on the radio even now.
My statements do convey the sentiments of the biggest percentage of the population of Steelers fans in Burgh and outside of Burgh. I get it from reading every single day and listening to the radio every day.
My stepdaughter's last boyfriend helped throw Ben off their golf course for pissing on the green. Small world, ya know? I guess I hear a lot more of it from being right in it (even though I've been in Cleveland for a year). There's nothing that happens with the players that doesn't get spread far and wide REAL fast.

I've been trying to think of one single person here, back home, or down in Burgh that took up for Ben the last time he got in trouble, and the whole time I've been typing I still came up with no one. Except you traitors.

I might not have been clear Scott. I don't defend Rothlisberger at all. It's pretty clear in my mind what I believe the evidence to show.

I was just making the point that not all Steeler fans were shocked to see him back on the field.

Unfortunately every team has fans who'll defend to the death the players on their team , no matter what they did. I'll bet Rae Carruth still has his defenders amongst Carolina fans.

You watch the tape, it's pretty clear that Harrison went right for another head shot, so his lies won't get him anywhere. Whether the rules are right or wrong they're the rules, and when you repeatedly show that you're going to ignore the rules and just do whatever the hell you want, what's the league supposed to do?

Clothslining people used to be legal too, maybe we should still allow that.. We don't want to sissify the game too much after all.

[shilala]

Originally Posted by yourchoice

I'm sorry Scott, but I think "the Rooney family setting the highest standards" is hogwash. They've done a good job painting that picture, but their actions don't match their words. Some examples:
Najeh Davenport - charged with child endangerment and unlawful restraint. He was cut (Way to go Rooney!!!). But when the Steelers needed help at RB 3 months later...well, let's bring him back (He's reformed!!!!).
Cedric Wilson vs. James Harrison - within 1 1/2 weeks of each other, both were charged with domestic abuse. One was cut the other retained. Double standard?
Santonio Holmes - was permitted three or four strikes before he was traded.
Jeff Reed - First charged with disorderly conduct and criminal mischief, and later on a seperate instance, charged with resisting arrest, simple assault, disorderly conduct, and public drunkenness. Grounds for cutting, or at least not resigning? No, he kicked the ball well at Heinz field, so they slapped the franchise tag on him and paid him close to $3M after those incendents.
Ben Rothlesberger - don't even have to go there.

Most of this is all since 2008...3+ years! "Highest Standard" my ass.

And this is all of the off-field stuff. It's the way they play that makes me call them dirty. All teams have off the field issues, but the Rooney family shouldn't act like they hold their players to a higher standard when their actions clearly show they don't.

Joel, if you take a look at what's happened and is happening in the front office and the ownership of the Steelers since July of 2008, you'll understand exactly why that kind of bullshit has happened, and continues to happen.
You'll also find that Art Rooney II has been heading up day to day since then (or thereabouts) and it was Dan Rooney prior to him who didn't put up with any nonsense.
You'll also find that Art Jr. was fired by Dan in the past. They bump heads because Art Jr. is a dick.
So with all the insquabbling and politicing and major money, disinterested owners, half the family bailing out, the Steelers are now a business instead of a family operation, or more aptly a business trying to look like they are a family operation to maximze the price of the team until the sale all shakes out.

So I'll take one for instance. Harrison vs. Wilson.
Wilson got dumped to make a statement, but Harrison's business value was greater and overrode the committment to "not tolerating domestic violence".

I guess, after looking at the whole picture, you got me.
I should have said "The Rooney Family used to set the highest standards". They certainly haven't done things the way they used to over the last few years.

One last thing, Joel...
Why they slapped the franchise tag on Skippy instead of running him out of town, only to cut him , it's a complete mystery to me. I never chased down the reasons, but it had to boil down to money.
Does one single iota of that situation make any sense to you? Me neither. Add to that he was drunk all the time and he sucked. Sofaman and I talked hours on Skippy and have yet to shed any kind of sensible light on that whole thing. It's just nuts.

[shilala]

Originally Posted by Resipsa

You watch the tape, it's pretty clear that Harrison went right for another head shot, so his lies won't get him anywhere. Whether the rules are right or wrong they're the rules, and when you repeatedly show that you're going to ignore the rules and just do whatever the hell you want, what's the league supposed to do?

I hear ya, brother. And to waste a kid like Colt McCoy, really? For what?
Harrison, like I said before, is an asshole. He's got no problem with letting everyone know he's an asshole. He just opens his mouth and it falls out.
He got suspended for one game and they denied his appeal. He could care less. James Harrison is his own biggest fan, he doesn't care about what impact it has on the club. He's the James Harrison island.
I'm sad he's not gone for the year. It'd make for a better locker room and a big sigh of relief from the players.
He'll redeem himself with his play again and everyone will forget they can't stand him. I think he likes it that way.
Personally I just hope he gets sent to Dallas.
I'd trade him for a pair of mediocre guards or a good left gaurd in a heartbeat, that's what we need. And I'd love to see Matt Flynn throwing the ball in Pittsburgh. Ben would do well in a Bengals jersey.

[yachties23]

Sorry for making this an anti-steeler thread. Wasn't really my intention. I think we all like rough, physical, hard hitting football. Honestly there aren't better games than the in division games where every play is a highlight reel hit.

I think we are all in agreement, that Harrison's hit on McCoy was totally dirty, and in the continuing string of cheap shots. I've seen people defend him, in this very thread, I've see his twitter account quoted basically laughing it off, and worse of all I've see the league just continue to allow this to happen. In my mind one game wasn't enough, hes a repeat offender who will continue to push the envelope.

Also I wasn't wrong on the lax testing for HGH. The NFL has been trying to get something on the books, but as of right now has nothing. Even the US congress was trying to get involved in implementation, but where do we stand? No testing.

So again I stand in the court of public opinion; Whats your take on James Harrison?

Things we know
- Practice squad player, suddenly gains 10 percent of his body weight and becomes the NFL defensive MVP in one season
- Constantly dishing out illegal hits, even after being warned
- Has off the field domestic assault issue
- Bad mouths entire team, league, and Goddell in Mens health interview

Do I know for sure he took HGH? Nope not at all but look at this. The guy has zero respect for other players, his teammates and the league. Lets face it the reason this thread was created is because last season this guy saw fit to take two massively cheap helmet to helmet cheap shots in the same week. So yeah, I'm not going to give him the benefit of the doubt.

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by waffle

I agree that the possibility exists that players in the NFL are getting away with PED usage (Brian Cushing)

Almost positive (pun intended) he was given a four game suspension for testing positive for a masking agent last year.

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by shilala

I went back and forth and read your statements you've made, and have seen that what you consider to be true and what actually is true don't necessarily have anything at all to do with each other, but I'll let you know what the Steeler Nation thought about Big Ben.

There's not a single Steeler fan who wasn't shocked when he hit the field this year. The fans almost unanimously expected (and wanted) to see him gone. The fact that he's still there attests to the Rooney family. The fans trust them because they have taken care of us, and have set the highest standards in the NFL for generations. I can trust that they left no stone unturned and know the full truth of all Ben's transgressions. I can assure you there are many more you haven't heard about, and that the organization has since reigned him in. Despite that, he remains on thin ice.
If the Rooney's kept him and are willing to vouch for him and work with him to make an outstanding human out of him, I've got to be behind them.

But if you're a Super Bowl MVP wide receiver who likes weed, your ass gotta go. Ben Roethlisberger is a Steeler for one reason (and a damn fine one); top ten quarterbacks don't grow on trees, and the Steelers aren't competing for Lombardi Trophies without him.

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by yachties23

Things we know
- Practice squad player, suddenly gains 10 percent of his body weight and becomes the NFL defensive MVP in one season

Then you don't know Jack. Look, I'm no fan of Silverback, but what you're saying is plain nonsense. Here's a picture of him in NFL Europe in 2004:


Here he is in 2005 when he tackled the Cleveland Browns fan:


And finally here he is during his interception return in the Super Bowl against the Cardinals, the year he won the DPOY (where you claim he packed on 10% of his bodyweight in one offseason).


In any of those pictures that span over a four year period does he look noticeably larger.


Finally, although by no means scientific, his listed playing weight going all the way back to his Senior season at Kent State has always been around 240 lbs.

[yachties23]

I could be wrong on the weight thing, looks like he was listed at 238-240 in his days at kent state and the highest I've seen him listed in the NFL is 250, currently listed at 242.

But, cut 4 times by the steelers, sent to lawlnfleurope, and all of a sudden beast mode... begs the question...

I'm not saying people can't become better players, it happens all the time. But a guy cut from an NFL roster 4 times, usually doesn't become the Defensive MVP of the league.

Originally Posted by Stephen

Then you don't know Jack. Look, I'm no fan of Silverback, but what you're saying is plain nonsense. Here's a picture of him in NFL Europe in 2004:


Here he is in 2005 when he tackled the Cleveland Browns fan:


And finally here he is during his interception return in the Super Bowl against the Cardinals, the year he won the DPOY (where you claim he packed on 10% of his bodyweight in one offseason).


In any of those pictures that span over a four year period does he look noticeably larger.


Finally, although by no means scientific, his listed playing weight going all the way back to his Senior season at Kent State has always been around 240 lbs.

[shilala]

On the other side of the ball, we have Kurt Warner.
Wasn't he packing groceries before he came and won a Super Bowl?

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by yachties23

I could be wrong on the weight thing, looks like he was listed at 238-240 in his days at kent state and the highest I've seen him listed in the NFL is 250, currently listed at 242.

But, cut 4 times by the steelers, sent to lawlnfleurope, and all of a sudden beast mode... begs the question...

I'm not saying people can't become better players, it happens all the time. But a guy cut from an NFL roster 4 times, usually doesn't become the Defensive MVP of the league.

Well, he didn't even start in the NFL until 2007, in which he garnered first team all-pro honors. He sat behind Joey Porter for what, three seasons I think (help me out here Steelers fans) a damn fine linebacker in his own right. Then in 2008 he won the DPOY award. From everything I've ever heard about him, his physical skills were never a question; it's the age old, "million dollar body, ten cent head condition." He's been in the same system long enough that it's not an issue, but I bet he'd struggle mightily if he ever finds himself playing on another team that runs a variant of the 3-4 that he's not accustomed to (like the Texans for instance under Wade Phillips). If he were doing/saying the things he did without his success, people would think him a moron. But because of his successes, he's, "eccentric."

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by shilala

On the other side of the ball, we have Kurt Warner.
Wasn't he packing groceries before he came and won a Super Bowl?

And a couple of MVP awards, and a legit shot at the HOF. I know he was cut by the Packers, and was let go early in a Bears training camp because of a spider bite, and was cut by the Rams, too (but that was after he had already led them to two Super Bowls).

[shilala]

Here it is...
Undrafted in 94, stocked shelves at HyVee grocery store for $5.50 an hour.
Tried out for the Packers in 94, was released.
Arena Football in 95, 96 and 97.
97 he was to tryout for the Bears but got bit by a spider on his throwing elbow on his honeymoon. That nixed that.
In 97, he got God, and things started changing.
In 98 he got signed by the Rams and got sent to Europe to play, then third string at St Louis behind Tony Banks and Steve Bono.
In 99 he was 2nd string, Trent Green tore up his ACL, and Warner became NFL MVP and Super Bowl MVP.
In 2000 he broke his hand midway through the season, his interceptions went up, and they got beat in the wild card round.
2001 he was MVP again and lost the Super Bowl.
etc.

Man, I love that story. What a show that Rams offense was. Rodger's run this year looks a lot like it, but the Rams were different. Rodgers is precision perfect almost all the time. Warner was just different. He kept you on the edge of your seat, breathless. Maybe cause you didn't know what was next. With Rodgers you always know what's next. More perfection.

[shilala]

Originally Posted by Stephen

But because of his successes, he's, "eccentric."

I use "asshole", but I get your drift.

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by shilala

Here it is...
Undrafted in 94, stocked shelves at HyVee grocery store for $5.50 an hour.
Tried out for the Packers in 94, was released.
Arena Football in 95, 96 and 97.
97 he was to tryout for the Bears but got bit by a spider on his throwing elbow on his honeymoon. That nixed that.
In 97, he got God, and things started changing.
In 98 he got signed by the Rams and got sent to Europe to play, then third string at St Louis behind Tony Banks and Steve Bono.
In 99 he was 2nd string, Trent Green tore up his ACL, and Warner became NFL MVP and Super Bowl MVP.
In 2000 he broke his hand midway through the season, his interceptions went up, and they got beat in the wild card round.
2001 he was MVP again and lost the Super Bowl.
etc.

Man, I love that story. What a show that Rams offense was. Rodger's run this year looks a lot like it, but the Rams were different. Rodgers is precision perfect almost all the time. Warner was just different. He kept you on the edge of your seat, breathless. Maybe cause you didn't know what was next. With Rodgers you always know what's next. More perfection.

Objectively speaking, overall that Rams offense was better because of Marshall Faulk. The Packers have nothing remotely close to a player that can do what he did. That said, I'll take Rodgers & the Packers wide receiver corps (including tight ends) over the Rams anyday of the week. The Packers win by sheer numbers, as they have six legit targets at Rodgers disposal, whereas Warner really only had Bruce/Holt/Hakim/Proehl and the aforementioned Faulk.

[chippewastud79]

Originally Posted by yachties23

Also I wasn't wrong on the lax testing for HGH. The NFL has been trying to get something on the books, but as of right now has nothing. Even the US congress was trying to get involved in implementation, but where do we stand? No testing.

Which pro sport tests for HGH? And what is the reliable test for it? There are none. The NFL is no more lax on their testing policy of HGH than any other major sport. They test more often and for more items than any other of the major sports. I realize this is all based on James Harrison, but the league is doing more than any other sport to prevent PED use.

Originally Posted by Stephen

But if you're a Super Bowl MVP wide receiver who likes weed, your ass gotta go. Ben Roethlisberger is a Steeler for one reason (and a damn fine one); top ten quarterbacks don't grow on trees, and the Steelers aren't competing for Lombardi Trophies without him.

If Rothisberger is a top ten QB, and I'm not even willing to concede THAT, the only reason is most QBs in the league right now are about as good as Curtis Painter, in other words they blow.

The Steelers win in spite of him, not because of him.. He's more Mark Sanchez than he is Peyton Manning