The Official Soccer/Football/Futbol/Calcio thread

[TheRiddick]

'Pool are running out of time, it seems. With Newcastle in desperate mood I won't be surprised with them tomorrow if the game ends in a draw, even a point is priceless at this stage.

Barca are playing Real tomorrow, will be interesting to see how they do and if they escape without further injuries to key players with Puyol not able to play on Wed. Pique did great I last game, but Puyol was their best defender by far and Drigba just might have an easier go at Pique this time.

[Jason]

Originally Posted by TheRiddick

'Pool are running out of time, it seems. With Newcastle in desperate mood I won't be surprised with them tomorrow if the game ends in a draw, even a point is priceless at this stage.

that's more optimism than Dowie and Shearer can muster I imagine. Goin down

2-0 in the second with Barton being sent off, it's over. The EPL race isn't over as there are still games to play, but United are driving, and it is theirs to lose.

[TheRiddick]

As much as I would like to see Newcastle stay up, as already discussed, I am glad Shearer is suffering through this, couldn't happen to a better guy. The "savior" is nothing but.

United still have some tricky games left, I am hoping they are not celebrating yet and given the reports I've read they seem to be well grounded to take this for granted.

[TheRiddick]

Refs should be all tested for drugs! I can't imagine one missing out on an obvious clean play by Fletcher, but 2 of them? So much for Arsenal's supposed ability and all the bravura by the players in the in the past 2 days, when push came to shove they looked like kids and on numerous occasions like thugs (Fabregas). I only wish the ref does the right thing and rescinds the red card, as he should.

Not a fan of Chelsea, but will be hoping they win tomorrow after all the whining by Barca players after last game. If they are so good, as they claim, how come they could not score even once?

[aldukes]

[Jdbwolverines]

''It's a f****** disgrace!''

That made me laugh. That referring was horrendous. As much as I hate Drogba, I do feel for him in this situation. I understand blowing a call during an in game situation, but over and over like that is just unacceptable. Barcelona got their butts kicked that whole match, and for them to advance is just wrong. I have never rooted for ManU in my my whole life, but I hope they destroy Barcelona in Rome.

[mastershogun]

Originally Posted by Jdbwolverines

''It's a f****** disgrace!''

That made me laugh. That referring was horrendous. As much as I hate Drogba, I do feel for him in this situation. I understand blowing a call during an in game situation, but over and over like that is just unacceptable. Barcelona got their butts kicked that whole match, and for them to advance is just wrong. I have never rooted for ManU in my my whole life, but I hope they destroy Barcelona in Rome.

I won't say the ref was totally in barca's favor. He did give a questionable red against barca. also, the previous game henry had a foul that was not called. totally don't agree with you on the butt kicking. Barca maintained possession some 60-70%. If chelsea was in such control where was it shown?.. especially against a team that is not as strong, tall, lacking first team centerbacks, having a keeper who is weak on crosses, missing a first team striker, etc. if anything ballack should have been sent off for his craziness.
Having said this, i thought chelsea was going to the final but guess not.
Hiddink did play a good game but not enough with the away goal rule

[Jdbwolverines]

I agree with you that the red was questionable and that last game Chelsea pry did have more calls go their way than Barca. However, to miss what I would say was clearly 2, maybe even 3 or 4 penalty kicks is bad, especially in a game that close. While Barca may have also lead in ball possession, they had very few true scoring threats. Chelsea should have however capitalized on more of their chances to make sure 1 away goal would loose it for them, especially after Barca went a man down. The prevent defense only prevents you from winning.

[Jason]

Originally Posted by mastershogun

Barca maintained possession some 60-70%.

Sometimes possession means nothing, for the most part it just indicates a style of play in my opinion.

Originally Posted by mastershogun

If chelsea was in such control where was it shown?

In Barca's lack of offensive threat. Offensive threat is how Barca is defined and they showed very little of it over either leg. Controlled.

Hard luck to Chelsea but I'd much rather see a Barca vs. Manchester United final truth be told! Hope that ref never leaves Norway on UEFA's dime again.

Well at least I got something right.. barca v united... I expect Barca will actually show up for the final. However I predict United to be too strong. 2-1 Rooney and the ginger ninja put 'em away. Messi pulls one back late. Now I need Arsenal to revenge themselves upon United, and Chelsea to make up for last year.

[TheRiddick]

As already stated, Barca showed NOTHING save for one player, Iniesta. The much touted duo of Messi and Eto'o were KIDS playing a man's game, they had no speed nor talent to break through and create chances. If anything, Chelsea, even with just 30%+ possession created WAY more chances to score. Possesion means nothing in the grand scheme of things, Chelsea played a very tactical game and the first 20 minutes of second half, when they decided to play attacking football, it was Barca who had no answers and were lucky enough to have an idiot for a ref. Have no idea how UEFA selects officials, but then again, the last thing Platini wanted was to have yet another all English final. Platini should resign and stay away from any decision making, he is a discriminatory idiot, no matter his prior accomplishments.

As for the final, Barca were shown that they cannot play a fast, physical game and United should have an easy time, IMO. 2 of Barca's back line are out and if they could not cope with Chelsea's attack (Drogba and Anelka are not really that good a pair), then coping with a full brunt of Rooney, Ronaldo, Tevez and Berbatov will be a whole new story, and I do expect them all to play at least part of the game. I think both Scoles and Giggs will start in the mid to make history and appreciate their years with the club, along with Carrick and Anderson, then Scoles and Giggs will make way for Park and Tevez, at least that's how I'd play them, infuse great energy of Park and Tevez against (by then) tired Barca legs. Barca are good in Spain and nowhere else.

[Jason]

Originally Posted by TheRiddick

Barca are good in Spain and nowhere else.

I think I disagree with 90% of your post but this is just just crazy talk. As much as Chelsea stopped Barca playing their game, Barca did the exact same thing, and all they had to do was show up

I think United have to be favorites, less chinks in the armor but United will have a time shutting down the attack. It will be interesting to see just how cautiously they take things

[mastershogun]

Originally Posted by Jason

Sometimes possession means nothing, for the most part it just indicates a style of play in my opinion.

In Barca's lack of offensive threat. Offensive threat is how Barca is defined and they showed very little of it over either leg. Controlled.

But that is my point... barca plays possession game... they don't play a little possession with long passes or rely on set piece kind of game. they played the kind of game they wanted to play. sure the final third was missing big time but to claim that chelsea dominated the game i would say that chelsea would have to bump barca off "their game"... which is possession. The game barca plays is not "a lot of goals" game... that is the kind of game every team wants but sometimes you only get 1 goal. The "barca game" is possession and possession they had. They did play an offensive game... they were not playing defense 60-70% of the time. They were playing offensive 60-70% of the time... again, maybe not in the final third but nonetheless offense.
I am not saying this was one of barca's better games by a long shot!

[TheRiddick]

Jason,

You're saying it doesn't take skill, and lots of it, to deny a highly touted team such as Barca, a goal for what, 170 minutes of play? Please tell me you're kidding. If anything, Barca should feel extremely lucky that all Chelsea has as a striker is the like of Drogba, any other striker would have killed the game a long time before. How many chances did Barca create for all the possession they had over he 2 games? Not many, by any count, and the likes of Messi and Eto'o can only score on teams that allow them to roam freely wherever they want. EPL is a whole new paradigm, no wonder they dominate CL for the past few years and Platini is doing everything in his power to stop that. I am convinced now the ref knew what he had to do on orders from UEFA's office, there is no other explanation possible, no one is that blind and stupid all in one.

A great team will break down any opposing defense. Barca proved they cannot accompish that. Not over just one game, but over 2. Both Messi and Eto'o will have even harder time against United, where Chelsea's game plan allowed Barca players time on the ball, United will be very, very different and save for Iniesta, who played balls out in the second half yesterday, no one else on Barca had any clue what to do with the ball, possession or not. They also showed just how inept they were with Chelsea's counter attacks and United are WAY quicker and deadlier in that respect. Rooney will eat Messi alive on that left side, Carrick should do fine shadowing Iniesta. That leaves who to do what? Eto'o? He's clueless when he is not allowed time on the ball. Henry? Maybe, he's a step or two slower than in his best days, but may be dangerous if given space. That's about it.

Possession is meaningful if you can SCORE. If not, what does "possession" mean? Possession all over the place but the last third is useless and meaningless, and Barca did just that. I'll gladly save my energy by letting you run all over the place for most of the game as long as I know you're nowhere near a scoring chance nor able to create one. That's called experience and tactical advantage. I play with a guy who literally runs circles around entire teams, incredible stamina and speed, and for all of that and his great skill on the ball, we learned he is actually a player that is better off NOT on your team as you'll loose more often than not. Possession is a stat with no meaning. Playing "beautiful" footy means nothing, WINNING is the point of the game last time I checked (look at Italy's record in World and European Cups).

Look up my prediction some time ago when I said that I will not be surprised with an all EPL final, I pretty much nailed it save for dubious officiating (something that is not predictable). I also said that Barca will face a very different opponent than they did in CL all season long. Overall, I'd rather see United play Barca than Chelsea, on paper, at least, I will easily take United.

[Jason]

Originally Posted by mastershogun

The "barca game" is possession and possession they had. They did play an offensive game... they were not playing defense 60-70% of the time. They were playing offensive 60-70% of the time... again, maybe not in the final third but nonetheless offense. I am not saying this was one of barca's better games by a long shot!

I don't consider square passing in the backline and through the midfield with zero penetration as being offensive. I understand where you're coming from, there are a LOT of people that feel exactly the same way you do about it, I'm just not one of them.

Originally Posted by TheRiddick

Jason,

You're saying it doesn't take skill, and lots of it, to deny a highly touted team such as Barca, a goal for what, 170 minutes of play? Please tell me you're kidding. If anything, Barca should feel extremely lucky that all Chelsea has as a striker is the like of Drogba, any other striker would have killed the game a long time before. How many chances did Barca create for all the possession they had over he 2 games? Not many, by any count, and the likes of Messi and Eto'o can only score on teams that allow them to roam freely wherever they want. EPL is a whole new paradigm, no wonder they dominate CL for the past few years and Platini is doing everything in his power to stop that. I am convinced now the ref knew what he had to do on orders from UEFA's office, there is no other explanation possible, no one is that blind and stupid all in one.

Lot's more crazy talk. Listen, I'm not getting on your tits so please don't take it that way, you're just saying a lot of things that are subjective as if your opinion is The Way, and putting words in my mouth.

I said nothing about the skill it takes to shut down Barca, not kidding either obviously, simply didn't address it. I admire the tactics and execution of Chelsea in fact and believe they should have won the 2 legged tie on merit, I leaned towards them to win it as well but conceded the game could go either way.

I agree with the 6+5 support/Platini's sentiments to a large degree. I'd like to see domestic leagues somewhat representative of the nation they are supposedly representing. If no then go the other direction and create the European Super League, I'm good with either. Success of a domestic league in Europe has historically followed the money and since the EU rulings that abolished the "3 foreigners" rule it's been amplified to ridiculous levels.

This ref is a toolbag but I don't believe in any conspiracy theory. If he had been payed-off he would not have sent off Abidal while Barca was down, that seems enough like hard evidence to debunk those claims. He is the same knob that gave Romania a non-existant penalty and disallowed a good Italian goal in the Euro 2008 Italy/Romania match. He was not allowed to ref another match. Why he was allowed to ref this one I don't know, he's clearly not up to it.

Originally Posted by TheRiddick

A great team will break down any opposing defense. Barca proved they cannot accompish that.

Oh but they did, they kept their heads and belief and scored in the 93rd to advance to the final. I agree that United will not miss the chances that Chelsea did if they make them.

Originally Posted by TheRiddick

Eto'o? He's clueless when he is not allowed time on the ball.

Eto'o is fast and accurate, rarely scores goals after a considerable amount of time on the ball. He's a damn good finsher, I think you underrate him.

Originally Posted by TheRiddick

I play with a guy who literally runs circles around entire teams, incredible stamina and speed, and for all of that and his great skill on the ball, we learned he is actually a player that is better off NOT on your team as you'll loose more often than not.

Played with plenty of guys like that and understand where you're coming from. Tht guy is good for your team tho if you keep it positive with him and encourage him to do the right thing: play the way you're facing, hit the quick simple ball and move off it. This kind of player can keep the other team turning to adjust and a hole eventually opens

That's more than I ever want to gab about soccer on an internet forum, my fingers are tired.

[aldukes]

This thread needs more JOZY.

I'd take him over eto'o any day.

I think it's the ears that slow him down.
(although megging john terry on a dead run and save Alex running him down would have scored in the first game)

[Lumpold]

Originally Posted by Jason

I agree with the 6+5 support/Platini's sentiments to a large degree. I'd like to see domestic leagues somewhat representative of the nation they are supposedly representing. If no then go the other direction and create the European Super League, I'm good with either. Success of a domestic league in Europe has historically followed the money and since the EU rulings that abolished the "3 foreigners" rule it's been amplified to ridiculous levels.

See... now... here's the problem... while given the fact that all the member states field a national team makes it seem different... the 'no more than 3 foreigners' rule as it was worded was like saying 'no more than 3 players from out of state' for MLS teams - the EU is designed to act like the US, member states with autonomous control ruled by useless bureaucratic ashwipes. You can still "discriminate" you've just got to discriminate against non-EU nationals. However, thanks to the Kolpak ruling, this also means countries with a certain level of trade agreement with the EU also count.
Certain leagues in Europe still practice this (La Liga is no more than 3 non EU nationals on pitch per team, I think)

Originally Posted by Lumpold

Certain leagues in Europe still practice this (La Liga is no more than 3 non EU nationals on pitch per team, I think)

I've seen Henry, Eto'o, Messi and Toure all on the pitch at the same time...