Cheap alternatives to "cigar" beads?

[pnoon]

Originally Posted by mariogolbee

pnoon,
You've got a good point there. It's information I picked up here and there but nothing from anyone I know or any sources I trust. I did look at the information from the Little Pearls Kitty Litter website and the information there seems to point to it being okay. I may end up just getting some more Heartfelt myself though becuase th ones I have in my wineador just aren't enough.
Wouldn't it be nice though if the Kitty Pearls do work?

Of course the "information there seems to point to it being okay". They want you to buy it.

to the Heartfelt beads

Originally Posted by pnoon

Of course the "information there seems to point to it being okay". They want you to buy it.

to the Heartfelt beads

Heartfelt it is!

[Skywalker]

[bobarian]

Kitty litter will absorb moisture(humidity) that is what they were designed to do. But they WILL NOT regulate or release moisture at a set level. Though they are both the same product chemically. Kitty litter has not been treated to regulate at a specific RH. I believe kitty litter will work well in high humidity areas, but out here in Cali. Heartfelt beads are the best way to go.

[T.G]

Originally Posted by bobarian

Kitty litter will absorb moisture(humidity) that is what they were designed to do. But they WILL NOT regulate or release moisture at a set level. Though they are both the same product chemically. Kitty litter has not been treated to regulate at a specific RH. I believe kitty litter will work well in high humidity areas, but out here in Cali. Heartfelt beads are the best way to go.

This was my experience with the Exquisicat (sp?) from PetStupid.

Very erratic moisture release, I ended up having to use about five times more of the stuff than what I would be using for heartfelt beads, and it still sucked. This pretty much jives with what shilala posted earlier in this thread.

Oh, and the stories about "training the beads" by putting them in a 65% environemnt then removing them, then putting them back... LOL. Basic understanding of chemistry on so much as a highschool level should tell you that such theories are nonsense.

Originally Posted by T.G

This was my experience with the Exquisicat (sp?) from PetStupid.

Very erratic moisture release, I ended up having to use about five times more of the stuff than what I would be using for heartfelt beads, and it still sucked. This pretty much jives with what shilala posted earlier in this thread.

I'm still getting Heartfelt just to keep it simple. But did you use the Pearls or the non tracking kind? If it wasn't the pearls then it wasn't the right kind anyway.

[T.G]

Originally Posted by mariogolbee

I'm still getting Heartfelt just to keep it simple. But did you use the Pearls or the non tracking kind? If it wasn't the pearls then it wasn't the right kind anyway.

It was the pearls.

[shilala]

Originally Posted by shilala

Watersorb is just SAP. It simply gives off and absorbs water, there's no control over RH levels. It won't adsorb water from the air once it's wetted, either. It only works in one direction, and that's to give off water.
If you hydrate it with a 50/50 propylene glycol solution then you can keep your RH at 70% in your humi.
You gotta supply ample surface area though, and that's tough when you have a big humi. It takes up a lot of floor space.

I just read what I wrote, and left out a biggie.
"Propylene/water hydrated SAP doesn't adsorb water" is a large point.
If for some reason the ambient RH around a humi is greater than 70%, there's great potential for problems, especially if a humi is leaky.
If someone lived in Arizona or the desert or up in Siberia, it's an excellent choice because those humis require a lot of available water.

The reason Mark and Dave's beads work so well is that they have a component that regulates the water output (via principles you can see in a lot of papers, including those written about hydrated aqueous salt solutions and denatured alcohols), as well as an adsorbative component, which is the unhydrated silica gel.
When cared for properly, they'll regulate humidity in both directions, as they're intended to, and they'll do it very well.
That's why it's so important not to "overwater" the beads. If you do, you've effectively turned the beads into the same thing as a SAP/Glycol combination or worse. Too much water on the beads and you've basically created a bowl of water. That's why it is SO important to read the directions, follow them, and ask questions.
If we don't understand "how they work", it leaves a large margin for error, and we can easily undo the bead's efficacy.

My beads don't work quite like Mark's or Dave's. There's no salt or chemical component in them that regulates evaporation.
They rely on the principle of equilibrium, tons of math, and a well sealed humi. They also rely on a "care" regimen that's designed to remove human error. They also take advantage of an adsorbative capacity that's far in excess (greater than 800% per volume) that of Mark or Dave's beads.
By not having any additives, there's just more room. The structure of HCM beads is much different, too. That allows for a far greater amount of water to be present in them.
Their structure also allows a much higher covalency (electrical charge) that pushes water back and forth between the beads and their surroundings.
Another think is that HCM bead's internal structure allows for a much higher level of depracation, meaning they won't crack or break down over time. There's no reason why they won't last forever when maintained properly.
Add to that, the pores in the beads are too small for free hydrocarbons (cigar smells) to enter them, plugging the beads and reducing their effectiveness. The holes are just the right size to gather and store free ammonia, and they have an almost infinate capacity per volume to do so, making them ideal for aging cigars.

Which brings me around to a point...
There are tons of things that work. Some very well.
An individual's choice should involve where they live, how well their humi seals, how well they can (or want to) follow instructions, and education.
Sean made excellent points earlier. I could use his sweater and control the RH in my humidors using it, a bowl, some water, and salt.
I use my beads because it's easier.
If I weren't using my beads, I'd be using Mark's or Dave's.
I hope this helps!!!
Scott

Shilala,

I have some Heartfelt beads in my wineador right now but I don't think there are enough. I open it daily at least once per day. I kind of want to keep my humidifcation devices uniform. Since I'm opening it daily do you think using your beads or more of Heartfelts will be better. What do your beads even look like? I haven't found them anywhere.

Originally Posted by mariogolbee

Shilala,

I have some Heartfelt beads in my wineador right now but I don't think there are enough. I open it daily at least once per day. I kind of want to keep my humidifcation devices uniform. Since I'm opening it daily do you think using your beads or more of Heartfelts will be better. What do your beads even look like? I haven't found them anywhere.

I have Scott's Beads, and they work excellently. They are extremely simple to use. Put them in your Humi and forget they are there. If you want to change the RH that they are calibrated for, he provides instructions. Many people on CA use the beads and swear by them.

[MrOneEyedBoh]

Yeah as they all have said, I was looking for alternatives on cigar beads. Just front the money now and be set for life. Its NOT that much when you think of it. Sure if you can use a cheap water pillow in a mini humidor do that, but when it comes to vinos, coolers or larger humidors I would get beads. Cigarmony is running a deal now, and their lb beads come with a free mesh bag.

Originally Posted by MrOneEyedBoh

Yeah as they all have said, I was looking for alternatives on cigar beads. Just front the money now and be set for life. Its NOT that much when you think of it. Sure if you can use a cheap water pillow in a mini humidor do that, but when it comes to vinos, coolers or larger humidors I would get beads. Cigarmony is running a deal now, and their lb beads come with a free mesh bag.

Thanks for the heads up. I checked them out and they're more expensive than Heartfelt for oz and about the same for a lb. They look cool though.
I couldn't find the right kitty litter pearls at any of the local pet shops until a few minutes ago. I stopped by a new shop on the way to a store across town and they had the 4lb bags of Litter Pearls Kitty Litter for $10.99. I grabbed one for the hell of it and I'll try and run some tests later on in the week. For $10.99 it's worth an experiment.

[shilala]

Originally Posted by mariogolbee

Shilala,

I have some Heartfelt beads in my wineador right now but I don't think there are enough. I open it daily at least once per day. I kind of want to keep my humidifcation devices uniform. Since I'm opening it daily do you think using your beads or more of Heartfelts will be better. What do your beads even look like? I haven't found them anywhere.

You can never have too many beads.
Dave's (or Mark's) beads will do the job for you. You just have to follow his directions.
Depending on how old they are and how you have them distributed, and how often you've added water, and what size your winador is, and whether you have your drain plugged (you better), you can make a decision on what to do.
If you want to talk, send me a pm and I'll send you my cell number.
You can also start a thread and the guys will help.
Most of the guys here know more about my beads than I do. I just invented them. Literally, it's all the guys here and at our old home (Club Stogie) that helped me create them. They did all the field testing and gathered data and reported back to me, and it's honestly been a group effort from day one. Without all the guys, I'd have never been able to create them.
I usually do suggest that you keep your beads uniform. If you're using Dave's (or Mark's), I'd strongly suggest you keep using them.
The reason for that is that I've never done any tests to see how the two beads work together. Add to that, they are both brothers of the finest order. I do believe their beads are the identical product and directly interchangable, but you'd have to ask them to know for sure.
A side note...
Mark has supported me and helped me all along the way, too. It's not often you'll find a guy who's so decent and kind that he'll help someone who's creating a competitive product. Show's what kind of person he is.
He's far more interested in his brothers than making money.

The point of all my "blah" earlier is that I (or we) need a lot more info about how you are "doing things" to help you make an informed decision. It's what I was blathering about earlier.

[T.G]

Originally Posted by mariogolbee

Thanks for the heads up. I checked them out and they're more expensive than Heartfelt for oz and about the same for a lb. They look cool though.
I couldn't find the right kitty litter pearls at any of the local pet shops until a few minutes ago. I stopped by a new shop on the way to a store across town and they had the 4lb bags of Litter Pearls Kitty Litter for $10.99. I grabbed one for the hell of it and I'll try and run some tests later on in the week. For $10.99 it's worth an experiment.

Suit yourself...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zcAOwP2MFP8&NR=1

Originally Posted by T.G

Suit yourself...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zcAOwP2MFP8&NR=1

Cute. Real cute. Nice vid either way though.

[shilala]

Originally Posted by mariogolbee

Thanks for the heads up. I checked them out and they're more expensive than Heartfelt for oz and about the same for a lb. They look cool though.
I couldn't find the right kitty litter pearls at any of the local pet shops until a few minutes ago. I stopped by a new shop on the way to a store across town and they had the 4lb bags of Litter Pearls Kitty Litter for $10.99. I grabbed one for the hell of it and I'll try and run some tests later on in the week. For $10.99 it's worth an experiment.

I could have dug up all the test data and saved you eleven bucks and a lot of time.
You have to precondition the beads prior to using them, too.
You can do that by putting them in an ambient RH that's the same as whatever you wish your setpoint to be, it takes time.
You can also do some mathematical calculations to figure out roughly how much water to add to them to yield a specific RH, but it takes them forever to equalize and become usable.
Simply put, they're a real pain in the butt.
I know where you're coming from though. You'll have fun messing around.

Originally Posted by shilala

I could have dug up all the test data and saved you eleven bucks and a lot of time.
You have to precondition the beads prior to using them, too.
You can do that by putting them in an ambient RH that's the same as whatever you wish your setpoint to be, it takes time.
You can also do some mathematical calculations to figure out roughly how much water to add to them to yield a specific RH, but it takes them forever to equalize and become usable.
Simply put, they're a real pain in the butt.
I know where you're coming from though. You'll have fun messing around.

Thanks Shilala. I still want to try out your beads some time I think. I'd also like to see what they look like. I heard something about clay? Eventually I'll need more of somebody's beads after the multiple expansions I'll inevitably do.

[T.G]

Originally Posted by shilala

I could have dug up all the test data and saved you eleven bucks and a lot of time.
You have to precondition the beads prior to using them, too.
You can do that by putting them in an ambient RH that's the same as whatever you wish your setpoint to be, it takes time.
You can also do some mathematical calculations to figure out roughly how much water to add to them to yield a specific RH, but it takes them forever to equalize and become usable.
Simply put, they're a real pain in the butt.
I know where you're coming from though. You'll have fun messing around.

Heck, I could save Mario the $10 and still give him the joy of playing around, by giving him a the half to two-thirds full container of the Excussicat LP's that I have out in the garage. Back from when I listened to some moron who said they were the same.

Mario, LMK if/when you're coming to one of the area herfs, I'll bring them for you if you want to play. I've got no use for them.

Originally Posted by T.G

Heck, I could save Mario the $10 and still give him the joy of playing around, by giving him a the half to two-thirds full container of the Excussicat LP's that I have out in the garage. Back from when I listened to some moron who said they were the same.

Mario, LMK if/when you're coming to one of the area herfs, I'll bring them for you if you want to play. I've got no use for them.

Thanks TG. I might just take you up on that.

[MrOneEyedBoh]

Yeah man, I'm hard headed about not searching enough. But dont be hard headed about these beads. They are deff worth the money up front for something that will last... well forever. your cigars are expensive, why settle for something inferior to what is needed to maintain their beauty?