stirring the pot local B&M vs big internet

Originally Posted by Smokin Gator

I don't know why... but this thread really bothers me. It bothered me at the old site and it has taken pretty much the same course here.

Even if you were "testing" the exact same vitola of the same marca there are too many other variables involved to make any statements as to the differences based on internet versus B&M sources.

You guys have fun with it if you so choose.

I couldn't of said it better.
Too many variables. Enjoy cigars, whenever, however and from where ever you choose. Just enjoy them fellas.

[WildBlueSooner]

Originally Posted by Smokin Gator

I don't know why... but this thread really bothers me. It bothered me at the old site and it has taken pretty much the same course here.

Even if you were "testing" the exact same vitola of the same marca there are too many other variables involved to make any statements as to the differences based on internet versus B&M sources.

You guys have fun with it if you so choose.

May not mean much coming from someone who hasnt done a lot of smoking but "cha ching"! Gator= spot on!

[bobarian]

I am starting to get an itch!

I figure I buy from who I want, when I want period. After all, I'm the one who benefits or suffers whichever the case may be.

[Sancho]

The biggest difference I have seen first hand is with againg, B&M's dont move the stock of some of the more boutique brands that the online guys do. i.e. go into some place that sells Tatujue and check the box code, probably not new. Recently the shop I work at recieved a new box of VSG torpedos, compared to the rest of the VSG's already on the shelf they tasted totally different (due to lacking years of age) as such someone can come to the conclusion that a big interent site that moves thousands of boxes a month has cigars that dont taste the same as the local shop who moves maybe 10-20 boxes a month and mostly singles.

Just my perspective having watched stock sit on shelves only to be blown at a bottom shelf prices because it doesn't sell.

Originally Posted by MajorCaptSilly

I have 2 cats and 1 dog.

MCS

About your dogs, did you buy one on the internet and the other from a local store?

Originally Posted by Raralith

Legend, most of the things we are saying are purely spectulative, and we have no real proof. I think that internet retailers sell more, you think B&M's sell more, but neither of us have proof. Just because you said it over and over again doesn't mean it is fact so going back to that point over and over again doesn't prove anything at this point.

Don't you work at a B&M or are a member of a lounge in SoCal? This seems obviously blatant to everyone else that there is a complete bias. The whole purpose of saying, "Hey, let us see if B&M's taste better than internet" is greatly biased. Just because you don't tell them it's from the B&M and internet makes it a blind taste test. Just like your bad example of the placebo effect of buying sticks off the internet cheaper except it could actually be a real placebo effect since you are all sitting around actively trying to see that there is a difference.

agreed.

[Scottw]

Originally Posted by ScottishSmoker

About your dogs, did you buy one on the internet and the other from a local store?

And if so, do they taste different?

Originally Posted by Col. Kurtz

If I were Pepin, Fuente, et al. I wouldn't want my name on an inferior stick. It wouldn't matter to me where the stick was destined, internet or B&M.

I have gotten some putrid and great sticks from B&M and online. These are handmade products that are subject to minor variations unit to unit. I understand variations in color are sorted together for box presentation purposes, so it's plausible there are big differences in wrapper color within a blend. As far as purposely putting lower quality tobacco in a certain batch, not buying it. Aren't torcedors issued their bales for the days rolling?

I would imagine that the most important thing to aim for within a blend/brand is consistency.

I guess it boils down to this: If you like cigars from your B&M buy them (I'm sure they appreciate it), If you like them from online sources, buy those (I'm sure they appreciate it as well.) Not much on the conspiracy theories, but that's just me. I may be wrong.

Once again guys. No conspiracy, not vastly inferior. just noticeable difference.

[MajorCaptSilly]

Originally Posted by ScottishSmoker

About your dogs, did you buy one on the internet and the other from a local store?

Thank you for asking. The cats came from a local source and the dog came from a less local source. They are all nice.

MCS

[MajorCaptSilly]

Originally Posted by Scottw

And if so, do they taste different?

I licked all three and they taste like those sour gummi bears.

MCS

[Scottw]

Originally Posted by MajorCaptSilly

I licked all three and they taste like those sour gummi bears.

MCS

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, what part did you.............um.........nevermind. Thanks.

[icehog3]

Originally Posted by Legend

With regards to the second statement. First the local B&Ms add up to significantly more than the big guys. Second, There is thew fact that the big guys probably won't notice. third, there is the placebo effect for the internet buyer. " I got the same stuff cheaper".

I would love to see the factual stats on the local B&Ms adding up to more than the "big guys". Also how the conclusion is reached that the big guys "probably won't notice getting a (not vastly) inferior product. And don't even get me started on how you could prove this "placebo effect" theory.

I again emphasize everything posted here is subjective and/or speculative, yet it is pontificated like as if it were factual.

Originally Posted by icehog3

I would love to see the factual stats on the local B&Ms adding up to more than the "big guys". Also how the conclusion is reached that the big guys "probably won't notice getting a (not vastly) inferior product. And don't even get me started on how you could prove this "placebo effect" theory.

I again emphasize everything posted here is subjective and/or speculative, yet it is pontificated like as if it were factual.

Oh no, I've Agreed with everyone who's said it's subjective. and even stated I know neither side can be proved. just think it's interesting and would be fun to test amongst the inmates.

[icehog3]

Originally Posted by Legend

Oh no, I've Agreed with everyone who's said it's subjective. and even stated I know neither side can be proved. just think it's interesting and would be fun to test amongst the inmates.

Absolutely, no harm in a little fun.

[ca21455]

Let's not get all balled up here. This is an interesting discussion with all sides having there own opinion. That is what this type of medium is all about.

I tried searching the INTERNET to see if there was any information on cigar distribution and could not find anything definitive. The leading retailer is JR cigars and they sold about 10% of all cigars in the US. This of course includes all cigars which includes machine made cigars which sell more by far but cost less. Based on all the information I could find a good guess would be the INTERNET companies probably sell an equal amount of handmades as the B&Ms.

I typically try a few singles from a B&M first before purchasing a box. As far as quality goes, I would have to say I can't tell the difference. For the ones resting in my humi for > a month the singles taste the same as the boxes purchased on line.

I can say (as been stated before) the smokes indulged in at a local B&M with fellow BOLTs is always the best. Especially since I usually try something new that has been reccomended.

Anyway, an interesting discussion. Let's keep this civil.

Originally Posted by ca21455

Let's not get all balled up here. This is an interesting discussion with all sides having there own opinion. That is what this type of medium is all about.

I tried searching the INTERNET to see if there was any information on cigar distribution and could not find anything definitive. The leading retailer is JR cigars and they sold about 10% of all cigars in the US. This of course includes all cigars which includes machine made cigars which sell more by far but cost less. Based on all the information I could find a good guess would be the INTERNET companies probably sell an equal amount of handmades as the B&Ms.

I typically try a few singles from a B&M first before purchasing a box. As far as quality goes, I would have to say I can't tell the difference. For the ones resting in my humi for > a month the singles taste the same as the boxes purchased on line.

I can say (as been stated before) the smokes indulged in at a local B&M with fellow BOLTs is always the best. Especially since I usually try something new that has been reccomended.

Anyway, an interesting discussion. Let's keep this civil.

Agreed. Thanks for the input.

So who is willing to organize a test? I'll definately put some money into it. I know it will prove nothing but will be fun to do.

[TheRiddick]

Legend,

Who are the biggest internet cigar shops? That's right, same guys who ALSO run B&Ms: Famous, CI, Holt's, JR, Corona, etc. There is absolutely no way they ALSO maintain different stocks as proposed by you in the original post (and meaning that cigar manufacturers maintain at least 2 different warehouses as well).

I know of no business, cigar or not, that is looking to increase operational costs instead of cutting them, and anyone believing some yahoo at some cigar factory somewhere wanting to mess with a turista's head just needs to smoke less or entirely cut it out (and I don't mean cigars).

I guess its time for me to cut down on my book purchases over the internet, the paper they are printed on must be inferior to the ones sold at a B&M. And that watch must be made of inferior steel as well... Internet bought means inferior, in short.

So far you said that CA reviews are bought via ad dollars with absolutely no proof provided, now you are saying that a good number of cigars smokers are buying inferior products from internet stores and manufacturers who KNOWINGLY sell inferior product. Wow...

Since you live near Temecula I am sure wine makers there say they make superior product to, say, Napa, to any tourist that makes a stop at a local tasting room. Must also be true since a winery tasting room employee says it.

Don't believe everything you think.

Originally Posted by TheRiddick

Legend,

Who are the biggest internet cigar shops? That's right, same guys who ALSO run B&Ms: Famous, CI, Holt's, JR, Corona, etc. There is absolutely no way they ALSO maintain different stocks as proposed by you in the original post (and meaning that cigar manufacturers maintain at least 2 different warehouses as well).

I know of no business, cigar or not, that is looking to increase operational costs instead of cutting them, and anyone believing some yahoo at some cigar factory somewhere wanting to mess with a turista's head just needs to smoke less or entirely cut it out (and I don't mean cigars).

I guess its time for me to cut down on my book purchases over the internet, the paper they are printed on must be inferior to the ones sold at a B&M. And that watch must be made of inferior steel as well... Internet bought means inferior, in short.

So far you said that CA reviews are bought via ad dollars with absolutely no proof provided, now you are saying that a good number of cigars smokers are buying inferior products from internet stores and manufacturers who KNOWINGLY sell inferior product. Wow...

Since you live near Temecula I am sure wine makers there say they make superior product to, say, Napa, to any tourist that makes a stop at a local tasting room. Must also be true since a winery tasting room employee says it.

Don't believe everything you think.

Awesome. I'll check my thoughts with you in the future. Since you know which of my thoughts are ridiculous and which aren't. I certainly can't trust myself. And you seem very willing to help.

Ok. I'm just funning with you. Worry not. I'm not offended by your post. Just figured I'd demonstrate the absurdity of your statements. While you believe I may need to not believe everything I think. Its painfully obvious you shouldn't post everything you think. Truly riddick to summarily dismiss anothers thoughts as wrong when you have no proof. Particularly after he has admitted that his thoughts are just opinions that can't be proven. Just like yours. But of course your opinions are facts.

Truly no sweat riddick. Not offended. Just some advice.

[icehog3]

Originally Posted by ca21455

Let's not get all balled up here.

Anyway, an interesting discussion. Let's keep this civil.

I thought it was for the largest part, John.