JoePa.....Sad if true....

[shilala]

Originally Posted by Resipsa

But we do know what he was told by McQueary do we not?

The failure to act IS an act, sometimes legally, more frequently morally.

Maybe this will help...
Law enforcement was already involved at the time Joe became involved. Actually, they were involved years prior. And did nothing.
Joe had already removed Sandusky from his program, told him he wouldn't be receiving the head coaching position, and reported the grad student's information. All things that were within his power. Everything we know about the man makes it achingly obvious that he had to have done more than even the things we know.

Penn State officials allowed Sandusky to continue to use Penn State facilities as part of his retirement in 99 when Joe ran him off. That's despite having full disclosure and knowing he was raping children.

I know everyone is reacting on anger and conjecture. What's upsetting to me is that all the info is in the Grand Jury report. There are tons of links to reprots. The entire timeline is at wikipedia. All anyone has to do is read it like I did.
Joe didn't do nothing, he did far more than anyone at that University. He did everything in his power.
Maybe Joe should have put a bullet in Sandusky's head, and that's not sarcastic. If he had all the info the Grand Jury does, I'd be willing to bet he would have liked to. It's just plain wron to say a guy did nothing when the things he did are right in front of us in black and white.

I gotta quit arguing this because I'm getting upset. Joe can take care of himself. I just hope to God I never find myself in front of a jury of my peers who refuse to read the charges. I don't mean that insultingly, and I'm certainly not picking on you or Vin, Vic. I love and respect both of you guys, I'm sure you know that. I also admit I may have my timelines screwed up and what I'm asserting may not be completely accurate. I'm just quoting what I just read.

This whole thing just scares me to death. I sure hope I never find myself in Joe's shoes. It's a can't win situation that I wouldn't wish on anyone.
It's much akin to these women who file false rape charges against famous athletes and politicians. Once it's done, the harm can never be undone, regardless of whether there's an ounce of truth in it.
Maybe Joe could have done more, I don't know. But to say he did nothing is not true. I've mentioned three big things that he did do. To say he didn't follow up when we have no proof of that is also wrong and it's unfair.
Maybe Joe is guilty as hell. It could be. It just makes no sense. Not based on his track record, the person he's been, or the person he is. It's scary to think the whole world could turn on him this quick with not an ounce of proof.
It could just as easily happen to any one of us, and that's scary.

I'm gonna go say a prayer for all these people, including the children who are now adults. They need our support, not our arguing. I'm truly sorry if I caused any hard feelings with this arguing, it was not my desire or intent.
I love all you guys.

[AD720]

Originally Posted by shilala

Maybe this will help...
Law enforcement was already involved at the time Joe became involved. Actually, they were involved years prior. And did nothing.
Joe had already removed Sandusky from his program, told him he wouldn't be receiving the head coaching position, and reported the grad student's information. All things that were within his power. Everything we know about the man makes it achingly obvious that he had to have done more than even the things we know.

Penn State officials allowed Sandusky to continue to use Penn State facilities as part of his retirement in 99 when Joe ran him off. That's despite having full disclosure and knowing he was raping children.

I know everyone is reacting on anger and conjecture. What's upsetting to me is that all the info is in the Grand Jury report. There are tons of links to reprots. The entire timeline is at wikipedia. All anyone has to do is read it like I did.
Joe didn't do nothing, he did far more than anyone at that University. He did everything in his power.
Maybe Joe should have put a bullet in Sandusky's head, and that's not sarcastic. If he had all the info the Grand Jury does, I'd be willing to bet he would have liked to. It's just plain wron to say a guy did nothing when the things he did are right in front of us in black and white.

I gotta quit arguing this because I'm getting upset. Joe can take care of himself. I just hope to God I never find myself in front of a jury of my peers who refuse to read the charges. I don't mean that insultingly, and I'm certainly not picking on you or Vin, Vic. I love and respect both of you guys, I'm sure you know that. I also admit I may have my timelines screwed up and what I'm asserting may not be completely accurate. I'm just quoting what I just read.

This whole thing just scares me to death. I sure hope I never find myself in Joe's shoes. It's a can't win situation that I wouldn't wish on anyone.
It's much akin to these women who file false rape charges against famous athletes and politicians. Once it's done, the harm can never be undone, regardless of whether there's an ounce of truth in it.
Maybe Joe could have done more, I don't know. But to say he did nothing is not true. I've mentioned three big things that he did do. To say he didn't follow up when we have no proof of that is also wrong and it's unfair.
Maybe Joe is guilty as hell. It could be. It just makes no sense. Not based on his track record, the person he's been, or the person he is. It's scary to think the whole world could turn on him this quick with not an ounce of proof.
It could just as easily happen to any one of us, and that's scary.

I'm gonna go say a prayer for all these people, including the children who are now adults. They need our support, not our arguing. I'm truly sorry if I caused any hard feelings with this arguing, it was not my desire or intent.
I love all you guys.

Ditto. Scott I agree with 100% of what you've said in this entire thread. Every word.

[E.J.]

Scott, I have read the information to are saying you have read. I still have a different opinion. That is okay, we do not have to agree and I don't want you to feel like there is ill will because of that. I am not saying I am right, just expressing where I stand.

You say that Joe Paterno did everything he could. I cannot agree, because in everything I have read, I have never see it reported that Joe Paterno reported his second hand knowledge of rape of a child, to the police. The report was from his staff and happened at his workplace. That is after you were privy to the fact that this may have happened before. It appears that he told his boss and washed his hands of it, then when nothing was done, it appears he said "so be it." IMO, when he was told, he should have phoned the police, right then and there....not a boss, not staffed it out, but dialed the police and said, I think you need to come listen to this.

According to the indictment, in 2002 a Penn State graduate assistant - now-assistant coach Mike McQueary[15] - walked in on a ten-year-old boy being subjected to anal intercourse by Sandusky in the Lasch Football Building on the Penn State campus.[16] The next day, he reported the incident to Paterno, who informed Curley. Ultimately, the only action Curley and Schultz took was to order Sandusky not to bring any children from Second Mile to the football building—an action that was approved by school president Graham Spanier. The indictment accused Curley and Schultz of not only failing to tell the police, but falsely telling the grand jury that the graduate assistant never informed them of sexual activity.


"This is a tragedy," Paterno said of the case. "It is one of the great sorrows of my life. With the benefit of hindsight, I wish I had done more."

Pennsylvania state police Commissioner Frank Noonan said that though some may have fulfilled their legal obligation to report suspected abuse, "somebody has to question about what I would consider the moral requirements for a human being that knows of sexual things that are taking place with a child," and that, "I think you have the moral responsibility, anyone. Not whether you're a football coach or a university president or the guy sweeping the building. I think you have a moral responsibility to call us."

[Eleven]

Paterno should go now.

[shilala]

Originally Posted by E.J.

Scott, I have read the information to are saying you have read. I still have a different opinion. That is okay, we do not have to agree and I don't want you to feel like there is ill will because of that. I am not saying I am right, just expressing where I stand.

You say that Joe Paterno did everything he could.

Thanks for that post, EJ. I completely respect your opinion, as I do everyone else's. We are certainly all entitled to one.

I wanted to add that I didn't say Joe did everything he could.
My whole goal here was to point out that the assertions that he did nothing are patently untrue. He did many things that have been reported, and it's very likely he did much, much more that has not been reported.
Joe has said that in hindsight he wishes he'd have done more. I wish he'd have done more.
He's being vilified as if he did this himself, and it's wrong.
Four years before Joe knew anything, the local police, Department of Welfare, and the State Police were fully aware of what Sandusky was doing and they did nothing to stop it.
When Joe got was informed the very first time that something happened, even without specifics, he reported to the people he trusted to act on it and that trust was betrayed. Sandusky was his best friend, right hand man, in line to replace him as head coach, and someone he had great trust in. Joe told him he was not getting the job, removed from the football program, and completely cut ties with him. This was his best friend, and that's "doing nothing"? I can't imagine how crushed Joe must have been on so many levels, both personally and with the pain he felt for these children.
After Joe got rid of Sandusky, PSU Trustees then cut Sandusky a retirement deal that allowed him full access to PSU's facilities. I can't imagine what I'd do if I were Joe in that position. I can't even wrap my head around something like that. It's completely surreal.

That said, and even knowing so much about Joe over the last 44 years, I'm more than willing to consider he may have played a part in the coverup. It would make no sense whatsoever, but none of this does. I still have to consider it's possible because he's who he is.

I just think all this anger and hostility is misplaced. Maybe Joe has earned some, but he's the only one who has been shown to make some sort of effort to stop this or make a change in what was going on.
Graham Spanier deserves to be either shot or imprisoned for life, clearly. Tim Curley and Graham Schulz should suffer the same or worse. They knew what was happening and created an avenue for it to continue, as well as covering it up. The board of Trustees who let Sandusky have access to the facilty, knowing he was a rapist, should be right with the other three.
Yet the one man who tried to do something, even if it was true that it was almost nothing (and it's not), is being treated as if he did it himself.
That's wrong.

When this all washes out, I hope Joe is vindicated and it's proven that he went to great lengths to put a stop to all this. I doubt that'll happen, because no one wants to know. He's already been proven guilty beyond a shadow of a doubt all over the world. Even if he is vindicated, it won't matter. The damage is done.
But for the love of all that is true and right would someone please be angry at the men who actually did this and colluded to let it happen? That would put some sense to this senseless, evil, disgusting mess. Be mad at Joe, too, if need be. He may deserve it.
That's the part that is so upsetting to me.

[NCRadioMan]

Fired, in disgrace.

Tom Bradley is the Interim Coach

[Eleven]

Originally Posted by Eleven

Paterno should go now.

I called that one. Good riddance and I hope EVERYONE that should go to jail, does so for a long, long time.

[SeanGAR]

I used to have a lot of respect for JoePa ... all down the drain in one truly sickening flush.

This whole thing is absolutely sickening .... I don't even want to think about it, but they damned well better nail this pervert to the wall and fire anybody involved in coverup, never to be hired again.

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by loki

McQueary failed the second he didn't rush in and slam sanduskys head into a wall

This is the one I don't get, and the individual that I'm most upset with in this sickening ordeal (outside Sandusky of course). How in the Hell do you observe something so vile, so heinous, walk away and do NOTHING??? Job or no, jail or no, Sandusky is meeting a fire extinguisher, trash can, anything I can get my hands on, and witnessing first hand as I transform into an instrument of God's wrath. Or, to put it bluntly, I'd have beaten his ass like he was Boggs and I was Captain Hadley.

[14holestogie]

Originally Posted by BigAsh

JoePa to retire at end of season...his statement:

STATE COLLEGE, Pa. - November 9, 2011 (WPVI) -- Penn State football coach Joe Paterno announced in a statement that he has decided to retire at the end of the season.


The statement reads:

I am absolutely devastated by the developments in this case. I grieve for the children and their families, and I pray for their comfort and relief.

I have come to work every day for the last 61 years with one clear goal in mind: To serve the best interests of this university and the young men who have been entrusted to my care. I have the same goal today.

That's why I have decided to announce my retirement effective at the end of this season. At this moment the Board of Trustees should not spend a single minute discussing my status. They have far more important matters to address. I want to make this as easy for them as I possibly can.

This is a tragedy. It is one of the great sorrows of my life. With the benefit of hindsight, I wish I had done more.

My goals now are to keep my commitments to my players and staff and finish the season with dignity and determination. And then I will spend the rest of my life doing everything I can to help this University.

When I heard this, I knew Joe's fate was sealed. It's almost like he was saying, "I got this, move along, nothing to see here." One last attempt at a power grab. Interpretations may vary, but that was my immediate thought.

[elderboy02]

Originally Posted by SeanGAR

I used to have a lot of respect for JoePa ... all down the drain in one truly sickening flush.

This whole thing is absolutely sickening .... I don't even want to think about it, but they damned well better nail this pervert to the wall and fire anybody involved in coverup, never to be hired again.

100% agreed.

http://msn.foxsports.com/collegefoot...eployed-110911

Way to go Penn State. Stay classy. I hope that a-hole perfectly identifiable with an idiotic grin on his face faces some serious charges.

[hotreds]

[Mikey202]

Horrible.....from begining to end. My response on so many levels is WTF? When you read the Grand Jury report, all I can say is WTF?

So many people, did nothing, or not enough from the beginning. Eyewitnesses ,administrators, law enforcement, parents.
From the coach who caught him in the wieght room, "wrestling" with the first boy, to the cleaning staff who caught him with the last boy in the shower. You don't stop what you see going on? As a parent, uncle, friend of the family of the victim, you aren't getting arrested for attempting to beat Sandusky to death, or disorderly conduct when nothing is done when it's brought to light?
Sandusky doesn't get the chance to say," I'm sorry, it was wrong, it won't happen again." He said that when he was confronted. Unbelievable!!!!!
Ok, give me your keys, don't bring any more boys to the Penn State facility. WTF?

I just know what I would have done if I walked in on someone sexually abusing a ten year old in the shower, or if in a position of authority, this was brought to my attention, I would have resigned my position in protest, if nothing was done.
F**k a damn job, football program, University, ect., when it comes to things of this nature.

All I can say, is that there is alot of "gutless"" people who where involved and could have stepped in or stepped up, and made the choice to do nothing, or not enough.

In 2002, Joe Paterno should have resigned in protest, and called out the cowards who chose not do the right thing.

As a man,father,husband,uncle, Penn State fan, JoePa fan, born and raised in Nittany Lion country Pennsylvania boy, all I can say is WTF? I feel horrible for the victims.

I'm done talking about it. Thanks for letting me vent.

I've read everyone's comments, and agree with points from all of them. While Paterno is legally not guilty of anything, he is morally guilty of not using better followthrough. That's what it boils down to, in his case. The others are in deep legal doodoo, because of their inactions and the coverups. They're f@cked legally. I read the indictment, and with all the similarities from all the different victims, I don't know how it could all just be made up. Too many coincidences.

Paterno and McQueary are morally guilty (maybe even more for McQueary). Should McQueary have bashed in that monster's skull the second he saw what he saw? Likely. Should he have gone to the authorities, instead of just his boss? DEFINITELY. McQueary's dad and Paterno are at fault there. He told both of them at least some version of what he saw. Were I either one of them, I would have personally escorted him to the police station to have him tell his story there. Plain and simple. That is the step that Paterno truly failed at. If someone told me they saw someone doing something inappropriate with a minor, my first question would be to ask if you've reported it to the police. If the answer was not "yes" my keys would be in my hand and we'd be out the door immediately.

he's had a stellar record as a person and a coach, but this is something that is completely independant of who he is and what he did for a living. Did his ego get in the way? I can't say that, as I don't know the man. He failed to live up to his own code and the code that others expected of him as a mentor and a leader of young men. Children's lives have been destroyed as a result of his (in addition to others) inaction. Because he had a bigger name than any of them, he is the one who will be more remembered for his failures. He HAD a stellar legacy. It is his own lack of action (at least that one time, in 2002) that has allowed it to be destroyed. Could he have done more? Yes. SHOULD he have done more? ABSOF@CKINGLUTELY!

As for the school...they're majorly f@cked. With what has come to light about the allegations and the fact that the monster had the access he did to the facilities that he did, even though some at the school knew of incidents that occured there, they should be facing HUGE lawsuits as soon as the trial to lock up that piece of garbage is done, at the latest.

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by Wanger

Paterno and McQueary are morally guilty (maybe even more for McQueary). Should McQueary have bashed in that monster's skull the second he saw what he saw? Likely. Should he have gone to the authorities, instead of just his boss? DEFINITELY. McQueary's dad and Paterno are at fault there. He told both of them at least some version of what he saw. Were I either one of them, I would have personally escorted him to the police station to have him tell his story there. Plain and simple. That is the step that Paterno truly failed at. If someone told me they saw someone doing something inappropriate with a minor, my first question would be to ask if you've reported it to the police. If the answer was not "yes" my keys would be in my hand and we'd be out the door immediately.

I just can't wrap around my noggin the fact that a 28-year-old man's first reaction to witnessing something like that is to call his Daddy. All I know is that's a burden he's going to have to carry with him for the rest of his life...

[Stephen]

I've been busy the past few days so I haven't been able to take in as much news as I normally do, but the Big Ten decided to remove Joe Paterno's name from the Big Ten football championship trophy. Also, McQueary trying to do some damage control after his Grand Jury testimony was made public. What a piece of work this guy is...

[hotreds]

One tries to give the guy the benefit of the doubt, but bottom line: what the Hell was he doing showering individually with a young boy? That alone is beyond the pale!

[hotreds]