Best place to buy Illusiones 68?

[VirtualSmitty]

Originally Posted by GreekGodX

I understand why retailers would not want other retailers selling at lower prices but they should not be reporting them to the cigar manufacturer. The retailer that rats out other retailers will no doubt lose all our business, and we will tell other BOTL/SOTL's not to purchase from them either.

I recall Famous blowing the whistle on a small vendor who was undercutting Davidoff prices not that long ago. Not that I really care much, but just to play devil's advocate, why is it wrong for retailers to report other retailers who are breaking their agreements with the manufacturer? Unless i'm mistaken, many high end NCs such as Tat, Illusione, Davidoff, etc will only allow a vendor to sell their product at a certain rate. If they sell below the rates given they lose their account. How is it fare how to the B&Ms that follow the rules that carry these products to sit by and watch others break these agreements?

[GreekGodX]

Originally Posted by VirtualSmitty

How is it fare how to the B&Ms that follow the rules that carry these products to sit by and watch others break these agreements?

Business when it comes down to it is all about the customer. Cheapest prices for a particular cigar produces a loyal, lifetime buyer. If I know a retailer gives me the best price on a favorite smoke I will buy from him always, and I will also go there for any of my other purchases. So even though those other cigars may not be the lowest price, they get my money because they took care of me on another purchase.

Business is Business. You are going to see undercutting and other tactics in any business. What isn't fair is we have to pay premium prices created by the manufacturer. Who probably didn't incur any premium costs to produce the cigar.

[Bruzee]

I don't think it would take a genius to figure out that I am one of the BOTLs that posted a price for Illusione at The Party Source on this forum. I take complete and full responsibility for my post and the repercussions from it. It you choose to do so, place the blame on me for the recent price hike at The Party Source, and the fall out that has followed.

When I made the post, I was clueless as to what the minimum retails price was for Illusione, and just as clueless that The Party Source had them below this number. Although some common sense probably should have told me to keep it quite, for some reason it did not occur to me until much to late. I did it in a supporting and helpful manner for other BOTL here, and I thought I was trafficking some business for Eric at the same time. There was absolutely zero malice or intent to create any problems with Eric and Illusione. It should go without saying that I was not involved in "ratting" The Party Source out, nor do I have any idea who did.

Although I do take the responsibility for what I posted, I am just as effected as the rest of the inmates around here. Illusione is my favorite cigar, and I enjoyed the prices Eric offered just as much as everyone else. However, I do take some offense to some of the follow up posts damning those who couldn't control their "loose lips" or shut their "big mouths". But having said that, I realize people are angry, and with good cause. I would never treat someone that way here. I respect and love this place way too much to do so.

Lastly, I offer a sincere and humble apology to all of the BOTLs that are effected by this. I personally also made my apologies to Eric, and hope that he accepts.

Sincerely,

Bruzee

[GreekGodX]

No big deal Bruzee.. People should now understand why all the talk was kept to PM's.

[VirtualSmitty]

Originally Posted by GreekGodX

Business is Business. You are going to see undercutting and other tactics in any business. What isn't fair is we have to pay premium prices created by the manufacturer. Who probably didn't incur any premium costs to produce the cigar.

Trust me, I know this. I've worked around retail before. I just don't get your argument over how it isn't fair. How is it fair to the retailers? They agreed to sell the cigars at a certain price point in order to have them on the shelves. Party Box undercut, got caught, and had to adjust accordingly. While I applaud Bruzee over his apology, I see no need as the only wrongdoing comes from the The Party Box for violating their agreement with Illusione. If it burns your @ss to pay those kind of prices don't buy Tats, Illusiones, Davidoffs, Diamond Crowns, Padrons, etc.

[kelmac07]

Group hug????

[VirtualSmitty]

Originally Posted by kelmac07

Group hug????

Nah, i'm just making conversation. Like I said earlier, I don't really care. I've only ever smoked one Illusione lol.

And besides, no one wants a hug from me. All the old timers know I bite

[chippewastud79]

Originally Posted by VirtualSmitty

How is it fair to the B&Ms that follow the rules that carry these products to sit by and watch others break these agreements?

There are companies that undercut the prices on different cigars everywhere. Cigarbid and cigarsinternational list millions of cigars that get sold at far below MSRP, how are B+M's supposed to compete with companies that can mail you a box at half the price? For example: How does the corner smoke shop compete with C-bid on the price of Gurkhas?

In my opinion, the problem is the manufacturers establishing these MSRP's. The product has been bought and paid for by the B+M's or internet retailers. The manufacturer got their money, they sold their box. How come a retailer can't decide what they want to make as a profit on a box? Its just a shame to think that the makers of some of these brands over-value their product so much and demand for retailers to sell their product for $X.XX or lose the ability to sell them, no matter how much of their product they move in a month.

[GreekGodX]

Originally Posted by VirtualSmitty

Trust me, I know this. I've worked around retail before. I just don't get your argument over how it isn't fair. How is it fair to the retailers? They agreed to sell the cigars at a certain price point in order to have them on the shelves. Party Box undercut, got caught, and had to adjust accordingly. While I applaud Bruzee over his apology, I see no need as the only wrongdoing comes from the The Party Box for violating their agreement with Illusione. If it burns your @ss to pay those kind of prices don't buy Tats, Illusiones, Davidoffs, Diamond Crowns, Padrons, etc.

Essentially Party Source was playing Robin Hood. And I'm very thankful for that considering I don't have the big bucks to spend on cigars. The point of all this is that we were getting a deal and now we cannot anymore. The market should set the price not the manufacturer. It's not fair to the retailer because they should be able to sell more volume instead of making more per box sale if they choose.

[GreekGodX]

Originally Posted by chippewastud79

There are companies that undercut the prices on different cigars everywhere. Cigarbid and cigarsinternational list millions of cigars that get sold at far below MSRP, how are B+M's supposed to compete with companies that can mail you a box at half the price? For example: How does the corner smoke shop compete with C-bid on the price of Gurkhas?

In my opinion, the problem is the manufacturers establishing these MSRP's. The product has been bought and paid for by the B+M's or internet retailers. The manufacturer got their money, they sold their box. How come a retailer can't decide what they want to make as a profit on a box? Its just a shame to think that the makers of some of these brands over-value their product so much and demand for retailers to sell their product for $X.XX or lose the ability to sell them, no matter how much of their product they move in a month.

well said

[VirtualSmitty]

Originally Posted by chippewastud79

There are companies that undercut the prices on different cigars everywhere. Cigarbid and cigarsinternational list millions of cigars that get sold at far below MSRP, how are B+M's supposed to compete with companies that can mail you a box at half the price? For example: How does the corner smoke shop compete with C-bid on the price of Gurkhas?

In my opinion, the problem is the manufacturers establishing these MSRP's. The product has been bought and paid for by the B+M's or internet retailers. The manufacturer got their money, they sold their box. How come a retailer can't decide what they want to make as a profit on a box? Its just a shame to think that the makers of some of these brands over-value their product so much and demand for retailers to sell their product for $X.XX or lose the ability to sell them, no matter how much of their product they move in a month.

I don't disagree with you at all. In fact I couldn't agree more with. I think it's BS too, but it's not like it's uncommon in the cigar world. I'm just looking at it from the side of the retailer. How is it wrong if a place like Tower or New Havana Cigars that sells Tats or Illusiones at MSRP like they agreed to report a vendor that isn't following the terms of their contract? It doesn't seem like a shady move to me.

How often do you see Tats, Illusiones, or Davidoffs sell for half price? I haven't bought a box of NCs in over two years, but I can tell you I never saw deep half price sales on any of them (except Illusiones, they weren't even around then lol). Everybody knows Ghurkas are a joke, i've never seen them for sale outside of CS/Cbid.

Again, just playing devils advocate, making some evening conversation

[elderboy02]

Originally Posted by chippewastud79

There are companies that undercut the prices on different cigars everywhere. Cigarbid and cigarsinternational list millions of cigars that get sold at far below MSRP, how are B+M's supposed to compete with companies that can mail you a box at half the price? For example: How does the corner smoke shop compete with C-bid on the price of Gurkhas?

In my opinion, the problem is the manufacturers establishing these MSRP's. The product has been bought and paid for by the B+M's or internet retailers. The manufacturer got their money, they sold their box. How come a retailer can't decide what they want to make as a profit on a box? Its just a shame to think that the makers of some of these brands over-value their product so much and demand for retailers to sell their product for $X.XX or lose the ability to sell them, no matter how much of their product they move in a month.

Well said sir! Rep coming at you.

[GreekGodX]

Originally Posted by VirtualSmitty

I don't disagree with you at all. In fact I couldn't agree more with. I think it's BS too, but it's not like it's uncommon in the cigar world. I'm just looking at it from the side of the retailer. How is it wrong if a place like Tower or New Havana Cigars that sells Tats or Illusiones at MSRP like they agreed to report a vendor that isn't following the terms of their contract? It doesn't seem like a shady move to me.

How often do you see Tats, Illusiones, or Davidoffs sell for half price? I haven't bought a box of NCs in over two years, but I can tell you I never saw deep half price sales on any of them (except Illusiones, they weren't even around then lol). Everybody knows Ghurkas are a joke, i've never seen them for sale outside of CS/Cbid.

Again, just playing devils advocate, making some evening conversation

It's a shady move because each retailer should worry about themselves. Don't go sticking your nose around in other peoples business. Let the manufacturer worry about it. CI/Cbid definitely make it difficult for a B&M to sell cigars. The lazy consumer doesn't care if a B&M goes under, they just care about the price. Once a retailer buys cigars for the manufacturer they should be able to price it as they please. It would be great if we could see those cigars at half off occasionally. It is a shame for a B&M to have to sit on inventory b/c 1. Nobody wants it 2. They cannot discount it. The more they sit on stuff the longer it will take them to get the new stuff.

This all in good nature Love going back and forth on the matter, and appreciate each side.

[VirtualSmitty]

Originally Posted by GreekGodX

It's a shady move because each retailer should worry about themselves. Don't go sticking your nose around in other peoples business. Let the manufacturer worry about it.

Let's say both of us own competing b&ms. We both stock Illusione because it's hot right now and people are looking for it. One day a regular customer of mine stops in and informs me that GreekGodX is selling the same cigars for half of what i'm charging. I call my rep and ask what's up, is that me being shady or is that me protecting my business?

[yourchoice]

Originally Posted by GreekGodX

It's a shady move because each retailer should worry about themselves. Don't go sticking your nose around in other peoples business. Let the manufacturer worry about it.

I'm a firm believer that the market should set the price, and frown on the practice of the manufacturers setting minimum prices, but I would consider that a retailer is looking out for themselves by reporting other retailers if they're not selling at the agreed price. The other retailers may be losing some of their market share if they can't (within the terms of the contract) compete with their competitors.

IMHO Illusione is more to blame for something like this than the retailer who reports the other retailer....they're just looking out for themselves.

EDIT: I apparently take a lot longer to type than Smitty! lol

[bigloo]

A couple of things:

1) Retailers should be allowed to gain business to survive. Selling the same $10 cigar in NY City and Middle-of-Nowhere Town is not fair. the manufacturer gets the same price regardless. The retailers should not have the menufacturers dictate how they do business, it is bully tactics. For example, if a retailer wants to clear his inventory because it is not moving, he should be allowed to at any price he choses.

2) That being said, the small retailers will be bullied. They are also the same retailers who come on here to help out BOTLS by offering excellent prices and in doing so, gain some very valuable business (people on this board are the holy-grail of cigar customers, high volume, regular and high quality purchases).

3) So, to maintain this, we should protect these retailers by keeping info private, PM is our friend. We have a couple of these retailers here, those who pay attention know who they are, those who dont read the retailer threads and figure out the rest.

4) I wish we had more of these retailers

[VirtualSmitty]

Originally Posted by bigloo

A couple of things:

1) Retailers should be allowed to gain business to survive. Selling the same $10 cigar in NY City and Middle-of-Nowhere Town is not fair.

Why not? For arguments sake, let's say i'm Pete Johnson. My Tatuaje cigars are the talk of the town right now and I want people to think of them as a super premium cigar along the likes of Davidoff. So to maintain that image I set price limitations for what retailers can charge. If they don't like it they don't have to buy it. I don't want people buying brown label tats for half price, if they want something cheaper I want them buying the white label tats. How is it fair if I allow a small shop to undercharge for my product when I have large volume accounts that play by the rules? Isn't that unfair to the people giving me the most business?

[bigloo]

Originally Posted by VirtualSmitty

Why not? For arguments sake, let's say i'm Pete Johnson. My Tatuaje cigars are the talk of the town right now and I want people to think of them as a super premium cigar along the likes of Davidoff. So to maintain that image I set price limitations for what retailers can charge. If they don't like it they don't have to buy it. I don't want people buying brown label tats for half price, if they want something cheaper I want them buying the white label tats. How is it fair if I allow a small shop to undercharge for my product when I have large volume accounts that play by the rules? Isn't that unfair to the people giving me the most business?

Smitty, I understand were you are coming from. I think the argument I have is the non-advertised price. You cannot sell the same level or luxury good in NYC as you can in other parts of the country. So it is one thing to have a MAP, but retailers should be allowed to sell at a level they can survive. Thats my main point.

[elderboy02]

Originally Posted by bigloo

Smitty, I understand were you are coming from. I think the argument I have is the non-advertised price. You cannot sell the same level or luxury good in NYC as you can in other parts of the country. So it is one thing to have a MAP, but retailers should be allowed to sell at a level they can survive. Thats my main point.

Exactly. I read in an interview somewhere where Pete Johnson said something like, If a retailer wants to sell his cigars to someone cheaper in the store, he didn't care as long as they advertised the high price online.

[shadow king]

Originally Posted by Bruzee

I don't think it would take a genius to figure out that I am one of the BOTLs that posted a price for Illusione at The Party Source on this forum. I take complete and full responsibility for my post and the repercussions from it. It you choose to do so, place the blame on me for the recent price hike at The Party Source, and the fall out that has followed.

When I made the post, I was clueless as to what the minimum retails price was for Illusione, and just as clueless that The Party Source had them below this number. Although some common sense probably should have told me to keep it quite, for some reason it did not occur to me until much to late. I did it in a supporting and helpful manner for other BOTL here, and I thought I was trafficking some business for Eric at the same time. There was absolutely zero malice or intent to create any problems with Eric and Illusione. It should go without saying that I was not involved in "ratting" The Party Source out, nor do I have any idea who did.

Although I do take the responsibility for what I posted, I am just as effected as the rest of the inmates around here. Illusione is my favorite cigar, and I enjoyed the prices Eric offered just as much as everyone else. However, I do take some offense to some of the follow up posts damning those who couldn't control their "loose lips" or shut their "big mouths". But having said that, I realize people are angry, and with good cause. I would never treat someone that way here. I respect and love this place way too much to do so.

Lastly, I offer a sincere and humble apology to all of the BOTLs that are effected by this. I personally also made my apologies to Eric, and hope that he accepts.

Sincerely,

Bruzee

The road to hell is paved with good intentions. We've all done things like this before, no worries...