The Official Asylum Reef Tank Thread

[shilala]

Originally Posted by OLS

I am not sure there IS a cheap lamp place that I would trust to actually sell what they claim to be selling.
While it has no crushing effect on the corals per se, it will encourage algal growth which no one wants.
So Foster and Smith are telling you about the "lifetime' of the lamp, you want to stay focused on the actual
spectral-accuracy life of the lamp. Which is about half of the actual life of the lamp. If it was just for room light,
who would care? But of course it's not. And of course, you KNOW this, I am just reminding you. How was
that last algae outbreak, lol. You KNOW reef-keeping is ridiculously expensive. Pouring perfectly good salty water
down the drain, lamps, replacement corals and fish for all the ones we kill. It's hell,

Sadly it's just about time for me to have to change out lamps, too. I save them though, in case I ever need to
grow weed.

"The average life of T-5 tubes is 2 years, with the blue/actinic spectrum lamps lasting up to 18 months. 12000°K." are Dr Foster and Smith's words.
Your "spectral accuracy" comment is what I was looking for, Brad.

I guess I just kind of doubt the half-life idea. I tipped back my light to find a couple lamps with crusties floating around, and one actinic dead. Others looked new. Maybe I replaced half of them?
My doubt comes from:
1.) Dr. Foster and Smith are real straight shooters. If the lights were half good in half the time, they'd say so.
2.) Reef Keepers are even more painfully anal than cigar keepers, and Lord knows we have tons of rules we follow about ten steps past reasonably necessary.
3.) My corals are doing great, and are growing out of control.
4.) The corals I bought from other folks have totally changed from listless and colorless to colorful and full in no time.

My brown hair problem is all but solved. It was my fault. I had unhooked my ro/di unit and let it sit around for a couple months. That wrecks the membrane. It's even in my literature, I just never read it.
All I needed to do is fix my water, and that fixed the problem.

If my lights are 8x54w. that's be 432 watts or 4.8 w/gal. if my lights are at half the efficacy at half the life (let's say 8 months to a year), I'd probably be looking at 2.4 watts/gal, although I'm sure they don't curve down evenly.
Heck, it'd be worth wasting the money on one of those luminometers or whatever they call light measuring devices for the tank. You'd pay for it in no time with bulbs.

Based on my poorly informed argument, and knowing you've likely read volumes of painful tests and tech specs on this stuff, and knowing you're not gonna accept any suggestion that costs lots of money without a fight, how'd you get okay with the "bulbs are shot in half the time they say so" thing, Brad?
Know that this is a big leap for me. Normally I'd not believe anyone without doing the due diligence, but I know you're just as mental as I am, so I find it hard to believe you've accepted this without a fight. I can be okay with that.

[shilala]

I suppose another questions is "what brand are you t-5er's using?"
I continue to use Current, which was SlimPaq, which is now TrueLumen.

Bulbs are right here if you guys wanna shop.
Mark, you and I are using the same bulbs. My fixtures uses 8 54w t5's.

I just ordered two 400w 14K HIDs and two 65w actinic CFs for $160.

I read somewhere on the webz where someone measured the spectrum over the life of an HID and found it stayed pretty constant for a while and then shifted quickly long before the intensity dropped significantly. I have no recollection of anything like that for CFs or T5s but you can see the ends blacken on them so you know something is changing.

[shilala]

Originally Posted by BC-Axeman

I just ordered two 400w 14K HIDs and two 65w actinic CFs for $160.

I read somewhere on the webz where someone measured the spectrum over the life of an HID and found it stayed pretty constant for a while and then shifted quickly long before the intensity dropped significantly. I have no recollection of anything like that for CFs or T5s but you can see the ends blacken on them so you know something is changing.

See, mine aren't blackened at all, and I've never let them get that far. I don't even know if t5's will blacken on the ends.

My CFs take about a year to blacken. I have T5s on the freshwater tank but don't pay attention to them.

Found this.
Maybe I'll convert my system to T5s.

[shilala]

Originally Posted by BC-Axeman

Found this.
Maybe I'll convert my system to T5s.

I worked at Sylvania in St. Mary's, PA a number of times over the years. Lots of time it was for long periods. They made me say "lamp" and it still gets me. No one knows what I'm talking about when I say lamp.

I'm very inclined to believe the email verbatiim. I can't even begin of a reason why someone would make all that stuff up, especially if they have nothing to gain.

If you wondeer if Sylvania really tests bulbs, I can tell you that the right rear of the St. Mary's plant has a GIANT area devoted solely to burning and testing lamps. I can't even take a guess at how many lamps are in there, or how many hours they've been burning, but there's also guages and dials everywhere. They burn lots of lamps there that they don't even make at that plant, so they must be a regional tester? Don't know.

I think I'll pull my hood off tonight and work on it a bit. Lisa agreed to help me. I'll replace what tubes look like they need replacing, and put a label on the hood so I know what I changed and when. I might just go ahead and replace everything if enough are rough looking, and get a fresh start.

Pending Brad's input.

After a little pricing things out I think I'm O.K. with my setup.

lol

[shilala]

I decided to go ahead and replace all my bulbs, throw away the two that are shot, and keep the rest. I'm going to make use of the awesome packaging F&S sends to store the old bulbs.
I think what happened is last time I replaced 6 of the 8 lamps cause I checked online and that's what it said the light used, I never even looked. That'd make sense as to why two are shot and 6 look great. (Online it says my fixture uses six bulbs, so I imagine that's what I ordered.)
Lisa says she thinks I replaced the bulbs last year around Christmas. I seem to think that's about right.

[OLS]

Haha, you know me, got to SOUND superior if I can't BE superior. I always used the term lamp, cause in TV
we are always replacing tungsten lamps in our fixtures when someone trips over a wire and drags a light stand
to the floor with a crash and a pop and a flash of light. I ought to know I have blown up more than my share.
When you pay 3 for a dollar it's a bulb. When you pay 45 dollars for one, it's a LAMP, lol. But hearing that,
I would imagine that it could well be true that the last time I was actively buying lamps it was in the HO SHO days,
and I got my knowledge from that time of the hobby. Now I need to update my BS to match the reality, although
it would stand to reason that there was spectral shift if all of a sudden out of nowhere you are growing hair algae
like a hermit. Of course, there are 10 other reasons that could all be in play, lol. I DO save all my old lamps,
cause in my heart I do not believe a lamp is dead til you drop it or it gets a flicker and a black end on it.

Originally Posted by OLS

When you pay 3 for a dollar it's a bulb. When you pay 45 dollars for one, it's a LAMP, lol.

'Zackly!
In electronics it's always a lamp, a bulb is an envelope.

[OLS]

Oh and Scott, just because I spout something doesn't mean I ACCEPTED it, hahaha.
I have a reef cycle that makes me one of the bad people. I have a great reef until
my laziness just gets out of control and everything degrades. Same is true with lamps.
I HAVE three changes of lamps, cause I bought them on closeout. BUT I will replace
them all after one year. Then in three years, I am just gonna put the first set back in, hahaha.

[shilala]

Thanks, my brother.
I still didn't order lamps, I was waiting for you to weigh in.
My hair algae bloom was due to moving, plus I let my ro/di unit lay around for a couple months all full of water and it wrecked the membrane. All I did was order new guts for it and replace 60 gallons of water (so far) and my hair algae problem is gone.
The brown diatom goo is almost history, too.

I talked to Lisa and we figured we'd get all the bulbs, then keep the six that are still fine. It makes sense since we have a fresh start on everything. If I have a burnout, I'll just replace it with one of the lamps I put in storage, I figure.

I'm absolutely amazed at what my corals are doing now that I've righted all my screwups. My tongue coral is ready to crawl out the tank. It's HUGE. Everything else is just going wild. If I improve the lighting, it'll only get better.
My new glass top is coming today, too. It'll replace the one I broke.

So all is well in fish land once again.
Thanks for all the help, Brad. I genuinely do appreciate your input and your knowledge, it means a lot to me. It helps to know how it used to be done, and why. The "why" is the biggest part. If I know why I'm doing what I'm doing, I can make anything work. You're where I get my "why?"

[OLS]

Originally Posted by shilala

You're where I get my "why?"

Well then you are FU@#*& son. Fish killer, lol. I am not sure how I killed my last outbreak of hair and
purple slime. I DO know that changing over to the 20 long made it necessary to replace 95% of the
water, derh, maybe that had something to do with it, lol. I swear I took my lettuce coral from one
barely living polyp to almost being back to full size. I was shocked that it re-encrusted the old skeleton
like that, I am sure it's not using the old holes, but who knows. I hate having this albatross
around my neck, especially as I get close to wanting sdesparately to move out of this town.
But I look at the various items still with me and think, "ehh, they're worth it."

[shilala]

Originally Posted by OLS

I hate having this albatross
around my neck, especially as I get close to wanting sdesparately to move out of this town.
But I look at the various items still with me and think, "ehh, they're worth it."

I think I mentioned I was bagging this whole fish tank lifestyle from hell when I got married. I was moving from PA to OH and that was my chance.
Lisa absolutely insisted I keep it going. She thought I was quitting cause she didn't want it, so she insisted I keep it going cause I loved it. Problem is, I didn't find that out till later. I moved it all and went through great lengths cause I thought SHE wanted it.
So now the 700 pound dirty pig is five feet behind me making noises, waiting for it's chance to wreck the house, vibrating up a storm, wanting fed, and waiting for me to dump another $170 bucks into it.
Ahhh, the riddle that is love.

[OLS]

If I could see a large pile of money needing to be spent, you can bet I would get rid of it all. I think if I had to move
out of town, they'd be S.O.L. But for now, my purple mushrooms multiply about one every three months, and
things are not so bad that I think everyday about breaking it down. I will say that if I ever have a PERMANENT
home that I paid for and now own, I would knock out a wall and have all the plumbing and access far out of
sight and just a window and no vibrations or waterfall sounds ar anything around ME. And small! I first started
out in the 20 I have now, killed everything cause I added stuff early, then went to 110 cause "I was smart now", lol.
Dumped all that 8-9 years ago or more, and like I have said, for some reason a year and a half ago, thought I
should turn some dry white rock and a obsolete skimmer into a base for buying all new everything else....sheesh.
Oh the money I would have.

[shilala]

This money hole is only 90 gallons. Can you imagine what the 240 gallon guys spend? Worse yet, can you imagine the time? The mere thought makes me shiver.

[OLS]

I think when I finally get my dream home, for which I will sign the papers, come home, cough up a speck of
blood and find out I have lung cancer, I will make it between 40 and 55 gallons. Against all the arguments over
how more water makes mistakes happen sloower, etc, all fine arguments, there is also the one that says 'you
don't HAVE to have it all", you just have to be satisfied with what you can afford, and afford to maintain,
both time AND money-wise.

There is a 500 gal tank at my LFS that someone gave up on. I could probably get a good deal on it. The owner showed it to me and my first thought was you needed SCUBA to clean it.
I go months without doing anything but feed my tank and add makeup water to it, only cleaning it because of company. If it is likely something will die then it did already.