What Joe Cigar won't tell you, and how to fight it

Happy New Year !

Chas

[Drazzil]

[groogs]

I can't say I have ever got a bad stick from Joe. I have got wet sticks that had to sit for a few months. I will also say that I have not seen anything worth buying from Joe in months.

[Ahbroody]

Originally Posted by bilkay

I've bought several of the Pepin deals from CI. I've also bought a lot of boxes of Pepin cigars. Um, same smokes.

Same here. Infact I have had a few bad DPG from brick and mortars that were wet and burned horrid when they just got them in. I know where this shop orders from and it isnt Joe. Further if people didnt know Joe ships wet as almost every large vendor I dont know what to tell you.

The Best DPJ JJ Maduros I have ever had and still have some left were a Joe special. I tressure them and often have to fight the urge. They are every bit as good and in my opinion better then the LBM.

This said I primarily only buy CC. Joe buys are only Pepins and his associated products

*****************************************
3. "Most of my deals, are just the box price, divided by two" WT*???

Huge issue with your math by the way. Looking at my past order history
9/8/08 and 12/16/08
Joe 10 DPG Blue generoso 35.00 free shipping no tax = 3.50 a stick
Joe 25 " " 174.00 no free ship no tax = 6.96 a stick
Local B&M more and taxed also

or 6/16/08
Joe 10 DPG JJ MAD Selectos 42.50 free shipping no tax 4.25 a stick
Joe 25" " 180.00 no free ship no tax 7.20 a stick
Local B&M more and taxed also

Last week 12 5 vegas knuckles for 32.50

I could list 15 more deals to further my point but this is enough. Yes occassionally the deals are not that great. Its called marketing and business. If he gives away the farm every day there will be no farm after a while. That said I was able to disprove one of your arguments with NO EFFORT.

Dont click here as it fails your math test also
http://www.cigarsinternational.com/p...m=CS-JYB&cat=3

I am sure there are holes in your other arguments but to be honest I only skimmed your post. Dont like Joe dont buy. I will continue to buy when I see deals on things I like. Are they over runs probablly some. I have smoked them and many other non joes and rarely see a difference.

#5 argument is all over the place by the way and not factual as to times deals are listed. midnight eastern on daily deal and the other ones usually come out 12pm pacific or thats when my emails come in. Where did you get these times you stated?

[brigey57]

Originally Posted by auburnfan1980

I've never had anything but great experiences from the CI staff and their customer service is excellent. I'm not sure what your motivation is to post this nor how you can be so sure that they're selling sub-par product, if not factory seconds. Hope you've never purchased anything on CigarBid, cause that's CI, too. No matter if you think Joe's prices are a rip-off or not, the fact of the matter is, you'll never find a cheaper price on the cigars he's selling when comparing apples to apples. Ever. Just thought I'd add my during the Joecigar.com bashing session.

Jason

__________________
I'm joking....but seriously.

As always let the buyer beware. I have bought some smokes from Joe and have been happy. I always check the price on the web before I pull the trigger. JMHO but it is up to you to do your homework first!

[SmoknTaz]

Definitely food for thought, thanks for the post.

thread jack/
speaking of daily deals, cigarmonster doesn't seem to be loading for me? anyone else have any luck?

/thread jack

Originally Posted by j-easy

thread jack/
speaking of daily deals, cigarmonster doesn't seem to be loading for me? anyone else have any luck?

/thread jack

Continuing your thread jack, Cigar Monster is working for me.

Originally Posted by silentjon

Continuing your thread jack, Cigar Monster is working for me.

tj/ yeah its working now, was down for a couple hours though /tj

[Drazzil]

9/8/08 and 12/16/08
Joe 10 DPG Blue generoso 35.00 free shipping no tax = 3.50 a stick
Joe 25 " " 174.00 no free ship no tax = 6.96 a stick
Local B&M more and taxed also

or 6/16/08
Joe 10 DPG JJ MAD Selectos 42.50 free shipping no tax 4.25 a stick
Joe 25" " 180.00 no free ship no tax 7.20 a stick
Local B&M more and taxed also

Last week 12 5 vegas knuckles for 32.50

I could list 15 more deals to further my point but this is enough. Yes occassionally the deals are not that great. Its called marketing and business. If he gives away the farm every day there will be no farm after a while. That said I was able to disprove one of your arguments with NO EFFORT.

Sorry brother, you're wrong. And you're cherrypicking to boot. Yes, I will admit the occasional deal does roll down, but thats the exception, not the rule. The trend with Joe Cigar deals if you watch them seems to be either box price divided by two w/addition of free shipping a clearance brand that they want to get rid of, or Gurkha. You rarely see a break from that established pattern. Oh, you can try that "math" of mine again today 12/31/08 and it will prove itself. Go ahead... I'll wait.

Dont click here as it fails your math test also
http://www.cigarsinternational.com/p...m=CS-JYB&cat=3

I am sure there are holes in your other arguments but to be honest I only skimmed your post. Dont like Joe dont buy. I will continue to buy when I see deals on things I like. Are they over runs probablly some. I have smoked them and many other non joes and rarely see a difference.

You're quoting a deal that's 7 months old and telling me I "fail a math test" for talking about trends? Riiiight....

I am sure there are holes in your other arguments but to be honest I only skimmed your post.

You only skimmed my post, of which I took the time to share insights and tactics to save people money and you want to slam me for it?

Okay. Whatever floats your boat.

[tsolomon]

Originally Posted by Drazzil

The trend with Joe Cigar deals if you watch them seems to be either box price divided by two w/addition of free shipping a clearance brand that they want to get rid of, or Gurkha.

What's wrong with box price per cigar plus free shipping and no tax? I agree that it is not always a deal, but the prices are reasonable and you only get 10 cigars you might not want to smoke instead 20 or 25. I have picked up a number of Don Pepins (and Gurkhas in my early days) at some pretty good prices and they have smoked great.

Your post contains some good insights as to why you need to do some research on cigar pricing and check some reviews before clicking "Add to cart and checkout now", but this applies to any internet site or store where you purchase cigars. In fact, calling some if the Internet stores for pricing can save you money as they are not allowed to post lower prices on the Internet.

Drazzil, don't get upset that others are disagreeing with ya, bro. I appreciate your posts and efforts to share things that might help all the great BOTLs on this site and your opinion is definitely respected by me. I just think some others (including myself at first) thought you were unjustifiably slamming Joe, and since many of us have had a great experience with that site, we wanted to come to it's defense and present another point of view. I truly do appreciate your research and passion for trying to find the best deal around and sharing it with the rest of us, however.

Jason

[bilkay]

CI often has terrific deals. It's up to the purchaser to know what he's buying and to know how good (or not) the deal is. I just got 3 of the DPG 12 cigar samplers at $29.99 each. Even with the 2 CI Legends included, it's a great deal.

[BlackIrish]

Thanks for the thought-provoking post. Here's my $0.02.

1. JoeCigar describes its offerings in glowing terms, even when they don't deserve it. But every vendor does this (take a look at Famous, Holts, JR), and that's why we spend so much time reviewing cigars -- to provide an independent perspective.

2. The prices on JoeCigar's deals often are not much better than the box price divided by two. But that's not necessarily a bad thing, as others have noted. There are times you want to try 10 before committing to a box, and less-than-box quantities typically cost more, on a unit basis, than a box does. To get 5 or 10 sticks at the same per-cigar price you'd pay if you bought a box can be a good deal.

3. Even so, JoeCigar prices aren't always a great deal. There are other vendors that offer better prices on a regular basis, which is why it's critical to do your research homework, using tools like CigarCyclopedia's comparison shopper. It's not uncommon to be able to buy two 5pks of a cigar from Atlantic Cigar, for instance, for about the same price as you can buy the JoeCigar deal.

4. JoeCigar and CI do ship quite wet, as virtually everyone else has observed, but we expect that. I always put my purchases in a humi for at least 30 days to stabilize. But I do that with everything I order over the internet.

5. I don't have enough evidence to conclude that the cigars offered on JoeCigar are of lower quality. There's enough variation in handmade premiums that it's hard to draw any conclusions without a much more controlled comparison. Maybe I'm too big a science geek, but before I'd make any conclusion, I'd want to compare a cigar from JoeCigar with the same cigar from another vendor and from a B&M, all stored in my humidor for a decent amount of time (3mos?). And then I'd want to do that repeatedly, to try to control for the inevitable inconsistency between cigars even in the same box. It would be an interesting experiment, but I don't have the patience to do it.

My approach: be an educated and critical consumer. Expect that the descriptions on JoeCigar are hype. Expect that JoeCigar is offering sticks that are moving slowly. Expect that they'll be shipped wet. Read reviews, shop around, and compare prices before clicking the buy button.

Being a critical consumer means that I take everything a vendor says with skepticism, because that's the way the marketplace works. But it doesn't mean that I'm quick to conclude that a vendor is acting in bad faith or engaging in unethical conduct. I've bought subpar cigars from CI and sent them back, without hassle, simply because I didn't like how they tasted or were constructed. My experience with their customer service has generally been good, and that experience leads me to believe that they engage in hype and puffery but don't cross the line into deception or unethical practices.

Nevertheless, I think your post is thoughtful and a valuable contribution to our discussion here.

Have a new year full of delicious smokes.

BlackIrish

[Drazzil]

You know what? You guys are right. Some times I present information in such a manner as to sound abrasive or as if I am attacking Joe. As I stated, I love CI, and I think the world of them and Joe Cigar, however they do things I wish that they wouldn't, as I noted above.

I suppose the breaking straw for me was missing out (or almost missing out depending on how you look at it) on a deal because it was posted at six in the morning, which seems to be a regular practice for Joe, posting all the good deals at odd hours in Jambalayah so that more people cant take advantage of it. After a half a dozen or so missed deals because they were posted in the middle of the night, you tend to get a bit cranky.

BlackIrish summed up my post far better then I could, and all without sounding like the south end of a north end mule while doing it, he is to be commended.

That is all

[Silound]

Unfortunately, CI lost my business for a while after a botched shipment of a 5opk of GoF's. The box came in terrible shape, and CI wouldn't make good on shipping damage on "top end" sticks, even when UPS wouldn't do anything.

I expect, at the very least, that they could take it up with UPS about shipping and simply make good to me, or tell me they would "work on it", but instead I was told flat out, no.


Ahh well, I have enough cigars right now, I don't need more.

[Drazzil]

I cant believe CI would do that, that sounds like an issue to take up with the Supervisor or the manager, and barring that, with your credit card company to reverse the charges.

[Ahbroody]

Like I said. Are all deals good? No
As I said if Joe gave away he farm everyday there would be no farm after a short while. His style and tactics are business 101. He is in business to make money after all. You are basically chastising him for being a good business man and providing great deals on some items and average to no deal on others. You do realize this is a capatilist economy right? This tactic is employed by every business that sells. They have loss leaders, bait items and profit making items. This is the basic model of almost every large volume seller. It is YOUR job as the consumer to determine what to buy and what not to buy.

Some of the deals are just box splits with free shipping. That said for many people in most states it is still a good deal based on retail and allows a person a way to try a cigar they may have been on the fence about. I have used this to trya few sticks at a good price without being taxed or paying shipping. Also if you see something else you want it allows you to avoid shipping and tax. Tax is a killer here in Cali and no one likes to pay shipping. Also the three deals offered at checkout are often pretty good as well.

Guess you cant see it, but the deal I listed is not seven months old, its from yesterday. I bought it yesterday as well and its still valid right now. 12 pepins for 30.00 including 2x CC, JJ, and JJ M, blue label, 5 vegas, and the CI blend. Retail on this is well beyond this.

I didnt cherry pick. I posted deals that I have purchased. I dont even check joe on a daily basis for the daily deal. I can post 15+ deals over the past year that are exactly the same or even better as the ones I posted. I still remeber getting 16 or more 601s for 49.99 earlier this year.

So as I said is every deal a barn burner? no.
As the consumer it is your responsibility to usedue diligence and determine what is and isnt. If you are expecting a businessman to not engaging in huffing when he is trying to sell product I dont know what to tell you.

I have done splits with people who have smoked box loads of pepins. While we all agree they are wet on arrive and usually need months to come around, they are not complaining about taste or quality.

To each his own brother. You think joes shady and want to blast him. I think Joe is a great businessman and has some pretty good deals on a monthly basis. I do my research and buy smart and have always been satisfied with the product and price.

[Cigarcop]

All I gotta say is...Hurry up.... CAO Gold Maduro Robusto
10 Cigars (52% savings!) $29.99...Get em while they last

[Ratters]

Eh, I've gotten some pretty good deals off joe. Sure, they come around every couple weeks, but I'm not looking to buy cigars every day anyhow.