Cuba relations thawing

Originally Posted by AdamJoshua

"Oh I'm sure it's Cuban, the guy at the cigar place is the friend of a friend and he got it from a drawer hidden under the counter."

I saw exactly this just last Sunday at a local B&M! Too funny!

[Blueface]

Originally Posted by JohnRogers

Does anybody know if human rights under Raul has been vastly improved?

Yup.
In five years, Alan Gross lost 100 pounds and a number of teeth, along with partial eyesight, in spite of their fantastic medical system (as I chuckle in sarcasm).
Yup.
Improved tremendously.
Here is before and after.

[icehog3]

Originally Posted by mosesbotbol

Funny, I was talking to the Singapore Habanos distributor the other night and he has much respect for NC's and for the obvious reasons; quality of the aged tobacco and consistent construction. Habanos smokers put up with a lot quality issues that are near non-existent on NC's. I am leaving the flavor differences out of the equation; those are personal preferences.

Line up 500 cigars; both Habanos and good NC's. How many NC's will be plugged vs. Habanos?

Moses, I did an experiemnt on another public forum last year. Numerous people logged all their cigars for the year, NC and CC. Good draw, tight draw, plugged draw. I store my cigars around 61-62% RH. For well over 500 Cuban cigars I smoked in 2013, I had 3 plugs. While that was worse than the NCs (0 plugged), it still ain't bad.

Originally Posted by Ashcan Bill

As long as you aren't betting Gurkhas, I'll accept your gentlemanly wager. After all, I have K Street on my side.

Nice. Obviously I will pay you off before 12/17/16 if you are right....

[mosesbotbol]

Originally Posted by Blueface

Yup.
In five years, Alan Gross lost 100 pounds and a number of teeth, along with partial eyesight, in spite of their fantastic medical system (as I chuckle in sarcasm).
Yup.
Improved tremendously.
Here is before and after.

I'm sure they are allocating what little health care resources they have on prisoners, right. There's a good amount of Cuban doctors throughout Asia and are highly regarded.

[Blueface]

Originally Posted by mosesbotbol

I'm sure they are allocating what little health care resources they have on prisoners, right. There's a good amount of Cuban doctors throughout Asia and are highly regarded.

I am sure the Novacane that teeth extractions are being done without is also in Asia.

Cigars wise, this Cuban will take a Padron Anni any day. Bet both will cost about the same soon as prices increase on CC's.

[JohnRogers]

Originally Posted by Blueface

In five years, Alan Gross lost 100 pounds and a number of teeth, along with partial eyesight, in spite of their fantastic medical system (as I chuckle in sarcasm).

I chuckled about that when I saw his mouth empty of teeth on the news broadcast. Can you spot two interesting items in the photo?

As for CC vs NC, I'd like to finally be able to judge my self. I've had almost ten CC all but one miserable. Yet you can't judge a country's cigars based on just a few you had.

[The Poet]

I sympathize fully with Carlos here, as with the full Cuban-American community. I do not believe Raul is much better than Fidel, and do not think the lot of the common Cuban citizen has been much improved in recent years despite the announced "reforms". Still, the fact remains that 50+ years of US embargo has done little to bring the Cuban government to a more amenable relationship with either America or its own people. In fact, the removal of most support following the collapse of the Soviet Union, and the imminent prospect of a reduction of support from a struggling Venezuela has done more to bring about a reassessment by Cuba's leadership of their future. Thus it may indeed be time for the US to try a different approach to this sticky issue.

Albert Einstein famously said that definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting a different outcome. This has been America's tack since JFK first signed the embargo back in 1960. A change now might be an error, but it seems to me that stubborn resistance to change is decidedly one.

[Blueface]

I have always been divided on this subject as truly see both sides of the fence.
All I can and will say on the subject of the embargo is Raul Castro has just verbally urged the U.S. to end it.
That speaks volumes to me.
It may not have caused change in their regime but it sure as heck must be one hell of a rope around their neck.

[The Poet]

Originally Posted by Blueface

It may not have caused change in their regime but it sure as heck must be one hell of a rope around their neck.

Which begs the question, my brother: Who has been strangled more, the regime or the common folk?

[mosesbotbol]

If we lift the embargo and don't like how things are going 5-10 years down the road, we can renew it again. Once Cuban leadership gets a taste of US dollars, their regime will crumble quick. Pepsico and Coca Cola have enough money to make all of them get in line.

[8zeros]

My 2 cents.
I wouldn't go to Cuba. There are plenty of other destitute, and not so, islands in the Caribbean.
I smoke mostly Cuban cigars because they are cheaper for the value. I haven't bought any in a few years because my income doesn't justify having a ten year supply vs. a five year one. I haven't bought any NCs either.
You would be insane to invest or finance anything in Cuba unless you could deal with them like a drug lord. The whole world could if they wanted to and they don't.
Besides it being a brutal, dictatorial, police state, oligarchy, (wait, that sounds familliar ), it may be a nice place.
Nothing has changed as far as trade goes. Where do I go to sell them a few containers full of vitamins and pet supplies? What would they pay me with? Chinese yuan? Oh yeah, those would be containers from China anyway. I could have them drop shipped.
I hear they got a lot of nice girls out there, a haw haw haw, a haw haw haw haw.
You can go there and bring back $100 worth of stuff, big cheer.

[WhiteMamba]

How were CC's viewed before the 60's? Anyone around here old enough to remember? We're they seen as anything special before the embargo?

[kydsid]

Originally Posted by WhiteMamba

How were CC's viewed before the 60's? Anyone around here old enough to remember? We're they seen as anything special before the embargo?

Not old enough but know some of the history. Basically before the embargo a cigar was a cigar, it just happened that a lot of cigars or cigar tobacco came from Cuba. A lot of tobacco came to the US for rolling, which resulted in Havana Clears, a term describing tobacco cleared by Customs. And I know several old timers who recall cc being available in stores for quite a while after the embargo.

[mosesbotbol]

Originally Posted by WhiteMamba

How were CC's viewed before the 60's? Anyone around here old enough to remember? We're they seen as anything special before the embargo?

Yes they were and actually a lot of American rolled cigars were using Cuban tobacco. NC grown tobacco was in the minority for sure.

[M1903A1]

Originally Posted by WhiteMamba

How were CC's viewed before the 60's? Anyone around here old enough to remember? We're they seen as anything special before the embargo?

Absolutely they were, though of course they didn't have the "forbidden fruit" air about them. I remember some of my father's comments about Cuban cigars (he started smoking cigars in the years before the embargo), and as a passing element of historical research I've noticed advertisers' emphasis on Cuban cigars, or at least Cuban tobacco. Realize that there were something like 920 different brands of cigars made in Cuba before the embargo...granted, many of them were regional, city-specific, or even neighborhood-specific within Cuba, but at the same time many of the marcas were American-owned and targeted at the American market.

[M1903A1]

Originally Posted by mosesbotbol

Yes they were and actually a lot of American rolled cigars were using Cuban tobacco. NC grown tobacco was in the minority for sure.

I recall reading (maybe in the book on the Cuesta-Ray story) that, when the Embargo came crashing down (almost) out of the blue on February 7, 1962, the American cigar industry was caught in a panic, so much had they come to depend on Cuban leaf.

[mosesbotbol]

The more intriguing question should be "what cigars outside of Cuba grown tobacco were popular at that time"?

[RWhisenand]

Originally Posted by JohnRogers

I chuckled about that when I saw his mouth empty of teeth on the news broadcast. Can you spot two interesting items in the photo?

As for CC vs NC, I'd like to finally be able to judge my self. I've had almost ten CC all but one miserable. Yet you can't judge a country's cigars based on just a few you had.

A photo of Che Guevara, and a blaster issued from the Empire to senior clone squad leaders.

Do I win anything?

[icehog3]

Originally Posted by Ashcan Bill

I suspect this is the beginning of the end to the embargo. I think by the time the next president takes office, it'll be completely ended.

Originally Posted by icehog3

Congress has a lot to say about that, and from all I've read, it won't be an easy fight.

Originally Posted by Ashcan Bill

Very true. But the new Congress will be extremely business friendly, and business stands to profit the most from the lifting of the embargo. I give it two years at the outside.

Originally Posted by icehog3

Hmmmm....I will put up 5 Padrons to your 5 Habanos that it's not completely lifted by Dec. 17, 2016. I'm not sure, but I think I have a decent chance to win that bet.

Originally Posted by Ashcan Bill

As long as you aren't betting Gurkhas, I'll accept your gentlemanly wager. After all, I have K Street on my side.

And exactly two years TO THE DAY from this "wager", an awesome fiver of CCs shows up at my door. I had no idea what they were for until Bill reminded me of this. A man of integrity, with great taste in cigars! Thank you, Bill, you are a gentleman and great BOTL.

[Porch Dweller]

Very cool!