Altadis USA sues Tatuaje Cigars - Page 3

Silound · 11-01-2009, 11:07 PM

Given my limited knowledge of laws governing this, I can't be sure but...

Pete almost certainly filed suit first because by doing so he forced Altadis to tip their hand early (he probably had some forewarning about the impending suit). Also by doing this, as was stated above, the Altadis suit will NOT proceed until a judge either combines the suits or until Pete's suit is totally settled (initial plus any appeals). Once either of those happens, then the next step proceeds.

I don't think that Altadis will come out a "winner" in this one. The Tatuaje brand doesn't come close to even comparing itself to the Montecristo line anywhere. They don't claim to be like it, near it, or even know it exists. The use of the Fleur-de-lis dates back well before the 12th century, making it unlikely that anyone can claim is as something protected by their trademark. Other than the use of the known FDL shape, they don't really have anything in common.

tchariya · 11-01-2009, 11:11 PM

They better start sueing fraternities around the USA. Many use the fleur in their badges and crests.

My fraternity didn't trademark a normal fleur, instead we copyrighted a use of the fleur with our other symbols. We have issued a cease and desist to companies that try to freely use our 'emblem' on cups, shirts, shot glasses mugs, thongs, cigar holders...etc etc...

Also, there is a steakhouse Indianapolis uses the fleur too.

tchariya · 11-01-2009, 11:20 PM

Another legal thought to trademarks, when one is given legal approval for a trademark, that entity who owns the trademark has the duty to protect it by going after anyone who tries to use it.

If they don't practice their legal powers to protect their trademark, it can be brought up in court by other parties citing that so and so company isn't doing their due diligence to protect what was granted to them.

This is why Apple Corp sues every mom and pop apple orchard and apple sounding company out there...McIntosh apples...etc etc. Whether or not Apple will win their case in trademark court, it won't matter, they are protecting the dilution of their trademark.

That's Than's terms...and I welcome anyone to correct my view of this.

icehog3 · 11-01-2009, 11:21 PM

Maybe they should sue Savoy too....

http://www.cigarasylum.com/vb/showthread.php?t=24016

11-01-2009, 11:32 PM

Did Altadis file papers to sue the Boy Scouts of America, yet?

elderboy02 · 11-02-2009, 06:03 AM

I have a pair of boxers that I bought from Old Navy that have the fleur de lis symbol on it. I hope they don't sue me

11-02-2009, 09:56 AM

Why does a symbol not become public domain similar to a piece of music? The symbol is so old that trademark infringement seems pretty lame to me. It's like an arrow being trademarked or a cross. As long as the symbol in question isn't a direct copy of the Montecristo version...what's the big deal?

Footbag · 11-02-2009, 10:20 AM

There are lots of variations of the FdL. I'm in the furniture business and see them on upholstery fabrics all of the time. I've also seen a number of other furniture/design firms that us it in their logo.
I cannot see this suit going very far. Seems more like desperation.

11-02-2009, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by icehog3

I have been boycotting Altadis products for years.

Not because of the feud or the suit, though...just 'cause they suck.

Ditto except in my case substitute "months" for "years" and you got something there.

Beagleone · 11-02-2009, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tchariya

They better start sueing fraternities around the USA. Many use the fleur in their badges and crests.

My fraternity didn't trademark a normal fleur, instead we copyrighted a use of the fleur with our other symbols. We have issued a cease and desist to companies that try to freely use our 'emblem' on cups, shirts, shot glasses mugs, thongs, cigar holders...etc etc...

Actually, there is a company that has signed up a majority of the fraternities and sororities in the US to be their official distributor for clothing, promotional items and other swag. They have aggressively gone after the many independents that cater to the local campus Greek organizations when they to tee shirts and other clothing items for copyright infringement and forcing huge settlements.

Back to the point: this has been developing for sometime now. Altadis first started this because Pete and Don Pepin made a pyramid shaped cigar that just happened to have a FdL on the band and looked a lot like a Monte #2.

Blueface · 11-02-2009, 11:11 AM

Holy Cow!!!

Did anyone realize how many old style iron fences need to come down or those owner too will be sued, along with the now dead iron workers that made them.

elderboy02 · 11-02-2009, 11:13 AM

Does anyone have a complete list of cigars made by Altadis? I want to make sure I don't buy their crap.

Thanks.

VirtualSmitty · 11-02-2009, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elderboy02

Does anyone have a complete list of cigars made by Altadis? I want to make sure I don't buy their crap.

Thanks.

http://www.altadisusa.com/cigar/handmade.asp

elderboy02 · 11-02-2009, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VirtualSmitty

http://www.altadisusa.com/cigar/handmade.asp

Thanks. I don't smoke any of those anyway.

VirtualSmitty · 11-02-2009, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elderboy02

Thanks. I don't smoke any of those anyway.

You have no idea what your missing if your not smoking Big Butt

elderboy02 · 11-02-2009, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VirtualSmitty

You have no idea what your missing if your not smoking Big Butt

No comment

Blueface · 11-02-2009, 12:31 PM

Just realized, while many of us don't touch Altadis USA stuff, on paper, they are the same Altadis that has part of the Habanos.
So, every time we light one of those CC's, back to Altadis it goes.

VirtualSmitty · 11-02-2009, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blueface

Just realized, while many of us don't touch Altadis USA stuff, on paper, they are the same Altadis that has part of the Habanos.
So, every time we light one of those CC's, back to Altadis it goes.

Indeed. They also own most of JR Cigars at this point, so every time you order from them back to Altadis it goes.

kydsid · 11-02-2009, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tobii3

Considering that the history of Altadis goes as far back as 1918...Tatuaje goes back all of 6 years....

For those of you who wish Altadis to fail, maybe you want to re-think your words??

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blueface

Just realized, while many of us don't touch Altadis USA stuff, on paper, they are the same Altadis that has part of the Habanos.
So, every time we light one of those CC's, back to Altadis it goes.

I'm pretty sure Altadis USA and Altadis SA are completely sepperate companies. That's not to say that don't back channel money back and forth illegally if they are controlled by the same people, but I'm pretty sure the IRS would want to know, and not even sure they are controlled by the same people.

mosesbotbol · 11-02-2009, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by icehog3

It is still going to be a legal fiasco when (if) the Embargo ends IMHO.

Habanos could launch new US only brands until everything is straightened out.

11-01-2009, 11:07 PM	#41
Silound ex-CS Swamp Gorilla Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Somewhere in a swamp, south of sanity Posts: 802 Trading: (15)	Re: Altadis USA sues Tatuaje Cigars Given my limited knowledge of laws governing this, I can't be sure but... Pete almost certainly filed suit first because by doing so he forced Altadis to tip their hand early (he probably had some forewarning about the impending suit). Also by doing this, as was stated above, the Altadis suit will NOT proceed until a judge either combines the suits or until Pete's suit is totally settled (initial plus any appeals). Once either of those happens, then the next step proceeds. I don't think that Altadis will come out a "winner" in this one. The Tatuaje brand doesn't come close to even comparing itself to the Montecristo line anywhere. They don't claim to be like it, near it, or even know it exists. The use of the Fleur-de-lis dates back well before the 12th century, making it unlikely that anyone can claim is as something protected by their trademark. Other than the use of the known FDL shape, they don't really have anything in common. __________________ Back in black, and better than ever! You can't keep a good gorilla down! LSU Geaux Tigers!

11-01-2009, 11:11 PM	#42
tchariya Taters of the lost Ark Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Illinois Posts: 592 Trading: (13)	Re: Altadis USA sues Tatuaje Cigars They better start sueing fraternities around the USA. Many use the fleur in their badges and crests. My fraternity didn't trademark a normal fleur, instead we copyrighted a use of the fleur with our other symbols. We have issued a cease and desist to companies that try to freely use our 'emblem' on cups, shirts, shot glasses mugs, thongs, cigar holders...etc etc... Also, there is a steakhouse Indianapolis uses the fleur too.

11-01-2009, 11:20 PM	#43
tchariya Taters of the lost Ark Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Illinois Posts: 592 Trading: (13)	Re: Altadis USA sues Tatuaje Cigars Another legal thought to trademarks, when one is given legal approval for a trademark, that entity who owns the trademark has the duty to protect it by going after anyone who tries to use it. If they don't practice their legal powers to protect their trademark, it can be brought up in court by other parties citing that so and so company isn't doing their due diligence to protect what was granted to them. This is why Apple Corp sues every mom and pop apple orchard and apple sounding company out there...McIntosh apples...etc etc. Whether or not Apple will win their case in trademark court, it won't matter, they are protecting the dilution of their trademark. That's Than's terms...and I welcome anyone to correct my view of this.

11-01-2009, 11:21 PM	#44
icehog3 Admiral Douchebag Join Date: Oct 2008 First Name: Tom Location: Clermont, Kentucky Posts: 71,305 Trading: (60)	Re: Altadis USA sues Tatuaje Cigars Maybe they should sue Savoy too.... http://www.cigarasylum.com/vb/showthread.php?t=24016 __________________ Thanks Dave, Julian, James, Kelly, Peter, Gerry, Dave, Mo, Frank, Týr and Mr. Mark!

11-01-2009, 11:32 PM	#45
Darrell Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Altadis USA sues Tatuaje Cigars Did Altadis file papers to sue the Boy Scouts of America, yet?

11-02-2009, 06:03 AM	#46
elderboy02 Lets Go Buckeyes! Join Date: Oct 2008 First Name: Dan Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 12,508 Trading: (133)	Re: Altadis USA sues Tatuaje Cigars I have a pair of boxers that I bought from Old Navy that have the fleur de lis symbol on it. I hope they don't sue me

11-02-2009, 09:56 AM	#47
bleedingshrimp Guest Posts: n/a	Re: Altadis USA sues Tatuaje Cigars Why does a symbol not become public domain similar to a piece of music? The symbol is so old that trademark infringement seems pretty lame to me. It's like an arrow being trademarked or a cross. As long as the symbol in question isn't a direct copy of the Montecristo version...what's the big deal?

11-02-2009, 10:20 AM	#48
Footbag I Need My Space Join Date: Oct 2008 First Name: Adam Location: NEPA Posts: 1,216 Trading: (7)	Re: Altadis USA sues Tatuaje Cigars There are lots of variations of the FdL. I'm in the furniture business and see them on upholstery fabrics all of the time. I've also seen a number of other furniture/design firms that us it in their logo. I cannot see this suit going very far. Seems more like desperation.

11-02-2009, 11:11 AM	#51
Blueface Gramps 4x's Join Date: Oct 2008 First Name: Horatio Seymore Hiny Location: Boca Raton - North of La Habana Posts: 8,774 Trading: (8)	Re: Altadis USA sues Tatuaje Cigars Holy Cow!!! Did anyone realize how many old style iron fences need to come down or those owner too will be sued, along with the now dead iron workers that made them. __________________ Little known fact: I am a former member of the Village People - The Indian

11-02-2009, 11:13 AM	#52
elderboy02 Lets Go Buckeyes! Join Date: Oct 2008 First Name: Dan Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 12,508 Trading: (133)	Re: Altadis USA sues Tatuaje Cigars Does anyone have a complete list of cigars made by Altadis? I want to make sure I don't buy their crap. Thanks.

11-02-2009, 12:31 PM	#57
Blueface Gramps 4x's Join Date: Oct 2008 First Name: Horatio Seymore Hiny Location: Boca Raton - North of La Habana Posts: 8,774 Trading: (8)	Re: Altadis USA sues Tatuaje Cigars Just realized, while many of us don't touch Altadis USA stuff, on paper, they are the same Altadis that has part of the Habanos. So, every time we light one of those CC's, back to Altadis it goes. __________________ Little known fact: I am a former member of the Village People - The Indian