First Firearm Thread.

[0002S]

Originally Posted by cigarmonkel

I was looking at that one earlier today. My buddy said I should save the money and go straight for the dillon 550b. He said ill adventually want one sooner or later. The reviews on itare all aamazing. But is it one of those tools you need experience to use kinda things?

I load with both single stage and progressive presses.

In my experience, I've learned the following.

Speed is not your friend when reloading. Speed is especially not your friend when you're first starting out reloading. Unless you're going to load 600+ rounds and can't spend more than 2 hrs doing it, there is no real need for a progressive press.

There are a few reasons I'd suggest you start out with a single stage press.

1. You're making mini explosives and you're better off learning the basics before you start mass producing rounds quickly.
2. There are more chances of catastrophic issues with pistol rounds than rifle (pistol is much easier to double charge than rifle)
3. You're going to invest a lot for something you may not like

Stages of reloading: (basics as there are many other stages that can be preformed to attempt to control the minutia of variances between rounds in an attempt to maximize accuracy)

1. Case Prep
a. clean cases
b. size / de-prime (uses press and die)
c. trim (if necessary)
d. chamfer inside and out
e. prime (potentially dangerous as primers can ignite when inserting and if so can cause all primers in priming device to detonate)

2. Charge case (most time consuming part of process)
a. measure powder (variety of methods: manual thrower / scoop / digital thrower)
b. weigh powder (use balance beam or digital scale)
c. drop powder in case (check...check....check....I can't say this enough.....C H E C K what you're doing here as this is where serious issues occur)

3. Seat bullet
a. Seat bullet to proper seating depth for O.A.L. of cartridge (uses press and die)
b. Crimp bullet (depends on bullet/cartridge type and if necessary - uses press and die)

4. Check weights and measurements for constancy and variances

As you can see from the above you have a lot of things going on and trying to do them all at once can be dangerous unless you know what you're doing and have some practice at it.


Now if you're going to load only 9mm and a few hundred at a setting you can do this with a single stage press very easily and fairly quickly with a single stage press set up.

The key is to use a ball powder (like WIN 231) and create a load around it for your pistol. Ball powder meters very easily and consistently so you can use a manual powder thrower and this will help to cut some of the time down.

Along with this, 9mm is a straight walled case and doesn't need as much case prep (doesn't need mirrored polished cleaning each time) and can be sized/de-primed quickly with carbide dies.


Rules to live by when reloading:

1. NEVER MORE THAN ONE OPEN POWDER ON THE BENCH AT ONE TIME
2. Do not reload when drinking or taking drugs or recreationally using state approved medical drugs...
3. Do not reload while watching TV
4. If you think there is something wrong with what you did or how the round looks, SCRAP IT. It's not worth your firearm, your life and the lives of those around you.


Also, you don't really save money reloading. You just shoot more for the same money spent on factory ammo. And you'll have to calculate those savings and shoot enough rounds to break even with the cost of the equipment before the cost benefits really kick in.

[Steelerfanatic]

Originally Posted by Blueface

Man, pleases share how you managed to pull that off at below MSRP.
Please!!! Pretty Please!!!

Complete luck to be honest. We had a brand new pawn and gun open up yesterday literally across the street from our neiborhood. I was the first one in the door and asked about the KSG and PMR30. He pulled out the KSG with an 1100 price tag. Then he told me about the 10% military discount. . First sale in the new store. Just wish he had the PMR. Been looking for over a year for one at a decent price.

[Mark C]

Originally Posted by cigarmonkel

I was looking at that one earlier today. My buddy said I should save the money and go straight for the dillon 550b. He said ill adventually want one sooner or later. The reviews on itare all aamazing. But is it one of those tools you need experience to use kinda things?

I wouldn't jump straight to the Dillon. Here's why:

1) Starting with a turret or single stage will force you to slow down, take your time, and focus on what you're doing.

2) Presses hold their value. Try finding a used press more than a few bucks cheaper than new. If you do decide to upgrade, you should be able to sell your starter press for at least 80% of the new price.

3) You won't want to sell the starter press though. You'll set that one up for a special cartridge you want to load slowly for utmost accuracy (probably rifle), and use the progressive for plinking pistol ammo.

I'd go with a turret press over a single stage. All the advantages to the single stage PLUS you can load faster once you get the hang of it. Honestly I think it's safer too since you work one cartridge at a time, start to finish. Seems less likely to accidentally double charge or no charge a case because you got distracted and forgot where you were in your loading block.

Here's a few additional things you'll probably want that may not be in a kit:

Calipers (I prefer digital, but it's your call) - you'll want to measure overall cartridge length.
Tumbler - If you want to reuse your own or range brass, you'll need to clean it.
Digital Balance - Mine cost $20, works great. I use a few bullets as test weight, it's very consistent and a lot easier to use than a beam balance.
Bullet puller - For WHEN you screw up and need to separate components.
Ammo boxes - I use a combination of flip top plastic boxes, surplus ammo cans, and empty paper boxes picked out of the trashcan at the local range.

Finally, don't overlook the Lee products. They cost half the price of the other brands but that doesn't mean they're bad. The cost difference between RCBS and Lee will buy you a lot of powder, primer, and bullets.

[Steve]

Originally Posted by Mark C

I wouldn't jump straight to the Dillon. Here's why:

1) Starting with a turret or single stage will force you to slow down, take your time, and focus on what you're doing.

2) Presses hold their value. Try finding a used press more than a few bucks cheaper than new. If you do decide to upgrade, you should be able to sell your starter press for at least 80% of the new price.

3) You won't want to sell the starter press though. You'll set that one up for a special cartridge you want to load slowly for utmost accuracy (probably rifle), and use the progressive for plinking pistol ammo.

I'd go with a turret press over a single stage. All the advantages to the single stage PLUS you can load faster once you get the hang of it. Honestly I think it's safer too since you work one cartridge at a time, start to finish. Seems less likely to accidentally double charge or no charge a case because you got distracted and forgot where you were in your loading block.

Here's a few additional things you'll probably want that may not be in a kit:

Calipers (I prefer digital, but it's your call) - you'll want to measure overall cartridge length.
Tumbler - If you want to reuse your own or range brass, you'll need to clean it.
Digital Balance - Mine cost $20, works great. I use a few bullets as test weight, it's very consistent and a lot easier to use than a beam balance.
Bullet puller - For WHEN you screw up and need to separate components.
Ammo boxes - I use a combination of flip top plastic boxes, surplus ammo cans, and empty paper boxes picked out of the trashcan at the local range.

Finally, don't overlook the Lee products. They cost half the price of the other brands but that doesn't mean they're bad. The cost difference between RCBS and Lee will buy you a lot of powder, primer, and bullets.

Good advice here...

[cigarmonkel]

Thanks for all the advice. I'm definitely going to go with a single or turrent style after reading your posts. Now to do some research on powders. Thanks again all for the advice!

[Eleven]

Those last two weapons pictured here are awesome! That crazy camo paint AR and the Kel Tec shotgun make me wanna start saving...again

Here is my latest, just got it the other day, Rock Island M5 Tactical 12GA shotgun:

[jluck]

Originally Posted by Blueface

That's after the lunacy that started in December.
Prior to that, there were always great deals there.
Best ammo prices anywhere at the time if you were patient and nailed the right one.
Now? I agree, overpriced but that is due to the folks willing to pay it.

Sad but true.
I have used GB for the last 12 years and the high prices go way past December 14 2012. prices are just insane but getting slightly better.
I have found some OK deals on black-powder stuff and a few parts but rudimentary search on most guns will yield better prices in short order.

Originally Posted by Steelerfanatic

Picked up a Keltec KSG today for below MSRP . Can't wait to take this out and shoot.

Awesome score! We have four of these on order for the original MSRP of $585 (ish), I don't know if they will ever show up....

[cigarmonkel]

I think I've decided to go with a lee turret press kit that comes with everything except the dies, bullet remover, calipers and I belive a scale. Although I'm hesitant becausing not being able to go to the range is frustratong enough. Having the press would be even worse cause its something I can do anytime.

[forgop]

It is finally done...first 90 round shot group today as well. Now time to zero this thing in.

[big pete]

Wish I could find a KSG for $100 over MSRP

[Blueface]

Originally Posted by forgop

It is finally done...first 90 round shot group today as well. Now time to zero this thing in.

Before even remotely considering any gun sight adjustments, recommend this.

http://kitup.military.com/2012/08/pi...-training.html

[bonjing]

Originally Posted by big pete

Wish I could find a KSG for $100 over MSRP

I think Jackson had some on order since they came out . I think they ordered 4 of them, I asked to put one on hold for me when they finally arrived. Not sure if ours got cancelled due to the price increase or the owner just said forget it.

[cigarmonkel]

Maryland small arms has m&p 17round 9mm mags in stock for 45each!! Just ordered myself 2 .

[forgop]

Originally Posted by Blueface

Before even remotely considering any gun sight adjustments, recommend this.

http://kitup.military.com/2012/08/pi...-training.html

This was for a supported 223, not a handgun.

[Mark C]

Originally Posted by cigarmonkel

Maryland small arms has m&p 17round 9mm mags in stock for 45each!! Just ordered myself 2 .

Get 'em while you can, those will be illegal in MD in 6 months.

[cigarmonkel]

Originally Posted by Mark C

Get 'em while you can, those will be illegal in MD in 6 months.

I picked up two of them. Thinking about calling back to order a third but that would give me 5. I can't seem myself making good use of 5.

[bonjing]

Originally Posted by cigarmonkel

I picked up two of them. Thinking about calling back to order a third but that would give me 5. I can't seem myself making good use of 5.

If the price is good go for it. Extra mags are never a bad thing.

[cigarmonkel]

45 bucks a pop. On gunbroker they are 110-180

[bonjing]

I'd wait till prices drop, on average I have about 6 mags per firearm. Some have a lot more depending on the deals I get.

[cigarmonkel]

The price was right for me. S&w says retail is 45 for them and that's what I paid. With this market you can't ask for much more. I know they go as low as 35 but ten bucks extra to get them now in this market vs waiting who knows how log was worth it to me. But I would never pay 100+ or close to that for them.