Pumping Iron with Zemekone and Icehog3

[PeteSB75]

Originally Posted by Mugen910

OK so I've been thinking about this and don't have the knowledge to give myself the right advice....
1) eat more often and keep your metabolism burning.
2) eat less and lose weight
3) muscle burns fat

How do I lose weight but eat more and cut up without bulking? I'm only 5'6 (on a good day) and I don't want to look bulky.

I'm sure I've asked this before so I'm sorry in advance.

Today's intake:
Cereal @ 930
Starbucks specialty iced coffee @1230
1 bottle water 24oz?
4 pieces of breaded chicken strips @2ish
1 spoon(scoop) of almond butter @3ish
1 naval orange @5ish
3 angus beef patties w/provolone on the grill & 2 slices of wheat toast @7ish
Casein shake @11

Oh no gym tonite but I'll do some stretching and prob ab workout at home.

Bao, calories in, calories out, yes. But it's as much about what you eat as when and how much.

Cereal - what kind? how much? Start measuring it. You'll be surprised how much of it you're eating. I know I was. Add protein to it first thing in the morning. Put raw almonds, maybe some dried fruit, and no sugar. Oatmeal is good. Grape Nuts are ok, but they have a lot of salt. Kashi Nuts or oatmeal are my cereal choices.

Starbucks - what are you drinking? If it's a frappuccino or mocha, or basically anything other than black, unsweetened coffee or a latte, it's got a crapload of sugar in it. Don't get me wrong, I stop at Starbucks every morning on my way to the office and grab either a grande bold or a venti iced coffee and drink it black. Best stuff ever.

As far as timing goes, you want to tend towards eating more earlier in the day. Big breakfast, big lunch, small dinner. I'd also stay away from processed meat of any kind. Buy chicken breast and throw it on the foreman. Buy it in bulk at Costco or BJs. Same with steaks. If you want burgers, buy ground beef and make em yourself, just break pieces off and shape em into a burger. If you don't have a foreman, Go buy one at target for $30. If you don't want to do that, I'll send you one. If you want a bit more flavor, put some barbeque or hot sauce on it when you eat it, just watch how much, that barbeque is loaded with sugar.

WATER. Drink it throughout the day. You sit at a desk? get a large water bottle and drink, refill, drink, refill. You should be drinking about a gallon a day. Drink water when you start to get hungry. Drink water before you eat lunch or dinner. Drink water first thing in the morning.

And you're still missing any veggies Asparagus, broccoli, spinach, heck, even mushrooms or a salad. They will help you feel fuller without adding lots of calories and they are loaded with vitamins and minerals you need.

Set aside snacks for yourself a couple times a day, like that orange. But add protein to them. You will feel more satisfied, even it it's just a dozen raw almonds or other nuts.

Anyway, spin for me this morning.

[GreekGodX]

Pete that was great.

Bao if you are going to be serious about it and make it a long term change you need to be more detailed. Limiting your portion size by actually measuring is the best way to see changes. That way you can also tweak it, and know exactly what your putting in your body.

Pete brings up a good point about size of different meals. Dinner should actually be a smaller meal. You aren't using those calories for anything productive. Your body doesn't need as many calories while your sleeping as it does while your awake. So following the plan of a larger breakfast, moderate lunch and smaller dinner (combined with snacks in between) will all help to reach your goal.

I see that you are trying to think about the process too much. You basically said that eating more will raise my metabolism but how am I supposed to eat more and lose weight? I hate to make this association but in the weight watchers diet you count points, and you are limited to a certain amount of points/day. Well in the diet if you workout you gain extra points to intake. A lot of successful clients workout more and eat more, effectively losing weight. Another way to look at it is look at your daily calorie total of how much you would eat if it were just 3 large meals with a snack (bfast, lunch, dinner+snack at some point). Then look at your total calories if you were to space it out during the day. Most likely you're going to be intaking the same amount but by eating every 2-3 hours, your metabolism is constantly working and the food is not being stored as fat. Obviously this doesn't work if you are eating twinkies every 2-3 hours. You need to make the right decisions on food, as Pete has already stated.

I hope that gives some insight. The reasoning you posed is a big reason why I wanted to get into nutrition more in college

[Mugen910]

Love the insight my iron brothers! I'll be honest, I've love to lose the weight and tone up but the whole idea of getting pickier on my foods isn't the most appealing. I've cut out the frequency of a few things that I used to enjoy (which is why I'm 200lbs) such as steak bombs, large bowls of white rice with fried chicken, fast food, well mainly convenience foods come to think of it. I'm not looking to get into any competition or steal your women with my body but I'd like to feel/look good without turning it into a job.

I guess I'm going to have to evaluate what I'd like to do versus what I want to do.

What's your daily consumption of food/water intake like?

[PeteSB75]

Originally Posted by Mugen910

Love the insight my iron brothers! I'll be honest, I've love to lose the weight and tone up but the whole idea of getting pickier on my foods isn't the most appealing. I've cut out the frequency of a few things that I used to enjoy (which is why I'm 200lbs) such as steak bombs, large bowls of white rice with fried chicken, fast food, well mainly convenience foods come to think of it. I'm not looking to get into any competition or steal your women with my body but I'd like to feel/look good without turning it into a job.

I guess I'm going to have to evaluate what I'd like to do versus what I want to do.

What's your daily consumption of food/water intake like?

You have to change habits that you've formed over years. That means you will have to think about it every day, every meal for at least the first few weeks/months. It's going to feel like a job for a little while. Then, as long as you keep your new, better habits going, it will feel less and less like a job as you go along. Your body is shaped in the gym, but built in the kitchen. If you fill it with crap every day, it will look like crap.

Take sugar, for example. I used to eat sweets almost every day, if not multiple times a day. Cookies, candy, sodas, donuts, cakes and ice cream were regular parts of my daily diet. When I decided it was time, really time, to make a change, I stopped eating them. Cut all the crap completely out. There's no other way to do it. For several days, it was all I could think about. I REALLY wanted the cookies sitting across the aisle, or really wanted to take a walk to DQ and get an ice cream cone. As I resisted, it gradually became easier. My body got used to not getting that daily sugar rush, and I stopped craving it. After going without for months, I was able to indulge, occasionally. It has to be occasionally though, no more than once a month.

If you want this to actually work, and keep working in the longer term, it has to be a lifestyle change. It's not a diet, it is your diet.

My food menu yesterday:
c. 1 gallon of water, throughout the day.
7 AM Breakfast - smoothie with 2 scoops of protein, spoonful of yogurt, 4-5 frozen strawberries, 2 spoonfuls of flax seed, and skim milk.
10 AM Morning snack - Nectarine & cheese
12:30 PM Lunch - Whole wheat wrap with grilled chicken, mozzarella, onions, peppers and mayo along with celery and carrot sticks and some blue cheese dressing
4 PM Afternoon snack - apple & cheese
7 PM dinner - bison burger with cheddar, broccoli, tomato & mozzarella salad with balsamic vinegar

[Mugen910]

Originally Posted by PeteSB75

You have to change habits that you've formed over years. That means you will have to think about it every day, every meal for at least the first few weeks/months. It's going to feel like a job for a little while. Then, as long as you keep your new, better habits going, it will feel less and less like a job as you go along. Your body is shaped in the gym, but built in the kitchen. If you fill it with crap every day, it will look like crap.

Take sugar, for example. I used to eat sweets almost every day, if not multiple times a day. Cookies, candy, sodas, donuts, cakes and ice cream were regular parts of my daily diet. When I decided it was time, really time, to make a change, I stopped eating them. Cut all the crap completely out. There's no other way to do it. For several days, it was all I could think about. I REALLY wanted the cookies sitting across the aisle, or really wanted to take a walk to DQ and get an ice cream cone. As I resisted, it gradually became easier. My body got used to not getting that daily sugar rush, and I stopped craving it. After going without for months, I was able to indulge, occasionally. It has to be occasionally though, no more than once a month.

If you want this to actually work, and keep working in the longer term, it has to be a lifestyle change. It's not a diet, it is your diet.

That's the crazy part...I don't care for cookies or soda...but dammit starbucks iced white chocolate mochas!!! I have one like every other day. I've cut down on the crazy take out foods and have been decent on making dinner versus eating out with the gf. I guess like anything it'll just have to be one step at a time.

[PeteSB75]

The other main thing to remember is that it will take time. Think about how long it took to put those pounds on. Didn't happen overnight. Took months or years to do it. It will take a long time to take it off, so you need to be patient. Max healthy rate to be losing weight is about 2lb/week. And it very likely will not be a steady process. Myself, I tend to stick at a weight for about 3 weeks or so, and then drop 10 lbs the next week, then gain 4, then back at about 8 lbs below my previous weight for the next three weeks, when I do the whole thing again.

[BigFrank]

Originally Posted by catfish2

Herbal, I want to stay away from the other stuff.

To the best of my knowledge there are only a few herbal supplements that have been stated to help produce testosterone naturally in the body. Before you look at moving this route, I would suggest going to the Doctors and having blood work done. Specifically ask the Dr. to screen your hormone levels.

For someone going your route about training, I would just get your levels checked and go from there. If all is well, eat right and train the gains will come. If there is something wrong you can get help under a Doctor's guidance.

With that said, tribulus terrestris (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tribulus_terrestris) is one. I have used this in small amounts. No serious cycling or anything of that sort. My experiences have been increased irritability and acne. Some minor breakouts that weren't normal for myself.

Long Jack Root (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurycoma_longifolia) has also been said to increase testosterone in the body. I have no experiences with said product.

These are the only two that I know of. Tribulus has been around for sometime, and has had some research done with it.

With that said, there is no magic pill. Increasing testosterone levels whether they be natural or unnatural does carry the risk of side effects. Herbal will be less, obviously, but the body will attempt to aromatase (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aromatase) free testosterone in the body.

Even if you go the natural route, setting up a dosage schedule and possibly taking some anti-estrogen supplements would be the best laid plan.

Arachidonic Acid (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arachidonic_acid) is said to be an herbal aromatase inhibitor, although research says other wise.
Chrysin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrysin) is also said to be an anti-estrogen inhibitor also, but much like A Acid claims are not backed up by much.
Long Jack Extract has also said to help inhibit aromatase in the body.

The anti-estrogen route will need to be done chemically in my opinion. As there are not true herbal supplements to prevent estrogen levels.
Natural things, like minimizing stress, eating a clean diet, cycling supplements properly will keep things under some control.

Hope this helps.

Thanx

[Mugen910]

back, chest, abs today and lots of water.

[PeteSB75]

Spin this morning. Roasted a whole chicken last night for the first time, probably since I was a kid. I forgot how damn good it tastes when the whole thing is cooked together, instead of just eating the breasts. Gotta do that more often.

[Mugen910]

Triceps and abs... oh what fun it is!

[Mugen910]

Biceps and triceps last night. I'm finally starting to notice a difference in strength and physique

[PeteSB75]

Originally Posted by Mugen910

Biceps and triceps last night. I'm finally starting to notice a difference in strength and physique

Too bad your sexy asian butt isn't going to be at Vin's barbeque.

Chest and arms for me this morning.

[Mugen910]

Originally Posted by PeteSB75

Too bad your sexy asian butt isn't going to be at Vin's barbeque.

Chest and arms for me this morning.

You can always come to SoCal I think Tom will be there

[PeteSB75]

Originally Posted by Mugen910

You can always come to SoCal I think Tom will be there

Would love to, but I think flying out to cali, renting a car, and booking a hotel for two nights will cost me a bit more than just driving up to Mass for a night. I've got to pay for a wedding two weeks later. Maybe next year?

[Mugen910]

Originally Posted by PeteSB75

Would love to, but I think flying out to cali, renting a car, and booking a hotel for two nights will cost me a bit more than just driving up to Mass for a night. I've got to pay for a wedding two weeks later. Maybe next year?

wedding? Overrated!

[icehog3]

Originally Posted by Mugen910

wedding? Overrated!

Especially if it's your own.

[PeteSB75]

Originally Posted by Mugen910

wedding? Overrated!

Originally Posted by icehog3

Especially if it's your own.

Thanks guys. You want to spring for my plane ticket and hotel and a ride from the airport, I'll be there Think Doug's planning on riding up to the barbeque with me, so you'll have to buy him a ticket too

Crappy spin class this morning. The girl that teaches on Wednesdays pisses me off. Think I'm going to switch up my schedule and lift Mon, Tues, Thurs and spin Fri, Sat, Sun.

[icehog3]

MMMM...I like girls who piss me off, Pete. I usually end up marrying them.

[PeteSB75]

Originally Posted by icehog3

MMMM...I like girls who piss me off, Pete. I usually end up marrying them.

I can introduce you if you want Tom, she's pretty cute and has some very nice assets, outside spin I'm sure she'd be fine. In spin, she's just annoying, and runs a boring class, doing the same thing every time. Just means I will go to classes run by others.