NFL's new safety policy

[Mugen910]

Originally Posted by Volt

I say suck it up. This isn't a chess match we are watching. These guys get paid more in a year than I'll see in a life time, get out there and earn it. All they need now is to say no contact with the QB and pass out the belts with the flags. I guess the girls field hockey league will take over as the toughest sport in America. YMMV.

No way Mike...I'm all for seeing a guy get a good hit but this is overboard. There are plenty of good hits in rugby with the whole "ohh ahh" factor without people ending their careers. Yes, this is American Style (I'm bigger, badder and stronger) style football but it's about the safety of it all the way down to pop warner. You think it's only the NFL that worries about this? My friend told me when he played football in his teens, all that padding made him feel like he was safe to launch himself at someone else. Kids see NFL players do it and they think they can too.

They make tons of money because the injury is a factor of their career. They go with the "I'm taking what I can now before it's over" frame of mind.

[357]

Originally Posted by replicant_argent

B-B-b-but Vic... they have been told for their whole careers that "harder is better" and that they can be big walking ccok on the block if they are the hardest hitting badass out there... You think they could retrain themselves, their egos, and the system that inculcates this attitude to ... uh... play.. er.... better football?

Getting that highlight hit on SportsCenter might get them a bigger contract. It's all about the benjamins baby

[replicant_argent]

Originally Posted by 357

Getting that highlight hit on SportsCenter might get them a bigger contract. It's all about the benjamins baby

You are correct, Mike, it is all about the Circle of Ego and Money, no matter the costs.

I propose a new sport, properly televised, advertised, and sponsored, of course, where there are just two types of players, the Clubbees, and the Clubbers. The sport is called Clubbing. You take a large Club, and you swing it at the other dudes head. That is all. Now, imagine the market forces at work, and the incredible salarys you could get for being a prime Clubbee or Clubber.... Aw crap... I forgot about that whole "law of diminishing returns" thing again.. I would make a really crappy pro-Clubber.

[icantbejon]

Originally Posted by pnoon

The NFL these days is more about collision and violent contact. Not to mention the "look at me" showboating. More often you hear "what a hit" as opposed to "what a tackle". Don't get me wrong, I enjoy the game. I just think the game has more of a focus on collision than it needs to be.

I'm with you on this....the art of the tackle has gone away. Defensive players use themselves as human missiles to blow something up, as opposed to good ole' fashioned breaking down, wrapping up, and taking to the ground. It has so much to do with making a highlight reel now.
That being said, I believe the "business" of football is really driving these rules. The NFL has to pay lifetime healthcare costs to the guys getting all these head injuries, so they see it as cost cutting from my perspective.

[357]

Originally Posted by icantbejon

I'm with you on this....the art of the tackle has gone away. Defensive players use themselves as human missiles to blow something up, as opposed to good ole' fashioned breaking down, wrapping up, and taking to the ground. It has so much to do with making a highlight reel now.
That being said, I believe the "business" of football is really driving these rules. The NFL has to pay lifetime healthcare costs to the guys getting all these head injuries, so they see it as cost cutting from my perspective.

NFL has a problem. They market these big hits. They use it to promote their business, and now they levy $75,000 fines for them to the players who do it. It's a bit of a pickle for them.

[Volt]

Originally Posted by Mugen910

No way Mike...I'm all for seeing a guy get a good hit but this is overboard. There are plenty of good hits in rugby with the whole "ohh ahh" factor without people ending their careers. Yes, this is American Style (I'm bigger, badder and stronger) style football but it's about the safety of it all the way down to pop warner. You think it's only the NFL that worries about this? My friend told me when he played football in his teens, all that padding made him feel like he was safe to launch himself at someone else. Kids see NFL players do it and they think they can too.

They make tons of money because the injury is a factor of their career. They go with the "I'm taking what I can now before it's over" frame of mind.

I actually like Aussie rulles football better than the NFL. Similiar to rugby but a bit different. From what I see on tv, they hit every bit as hard as any NFL type and wear next to nothing as far as pads, helments, etc. A ton more action/play time and a faster paced game. They leave the game way more bloodied and beat up and don't whine about it. It's a strength game with who can move the ball.

As to the rules. I don't want to see peeps get hurt, but it is a physical sport. That's why little guys like me and girls don't play it. It's getting to the point the offense is almost untouchable except in certain points of a play and only in some specific format. I'm fairly serious, they might as well attach flags to their waist's.

Of all the hits over the last weekend, I still think the hit Harrison hit on Massoqui was legit. From my point of view he dipped just as Harrison was tackling him. Maybe we need a rule that phohibts the offense from such actions and drawing the helment penalty? In baseball we have balks? For the record I am a Steelers fan, be that as it may.

[yourchoice]

Originally Posted by Volt

Of all the hits over the last weekend, I still think the hit Harrison hit on Massoqui was legit. From my point of view he dipped just as Harrison was tackling him. Maybe we need a rule that phohibts the offense from such actions and drawing the helment penalty? In baseball we have balks? For the record I am a Steelers fan, be that as it may.

Are you sure you're not referring to the hit on Cribs? The Massaquoi hit looked like a swan dive with his arms spread the way they were. That's what they used to call spearing. Head down, no attempt to wrap. Poor tecnique IMHO.

[Mugen910]

Originally Posted by Volt

For the record I am a Steelers fan, be that as it may.

damn and here I thought we were friends

[Volt]

Originally Posted by Mugen910

damn and here I thought we were friends

What's funny, is I'm originally from LA. I was a Saints fan back in the days they wore bags on their heads to the stadium. Archie never had a team to play with. Started following the Steelers when Terry Bradshaw got picked up by them. It's a club with "usually" little to no drama, no prima donnas, and a real good basic football program. Of course our "alleged" molester has changed it a bit. I'd as soon see him get canned and have Batch take over.

I think there are going to be many opinions on what is excessive and what constitutes a good hit. Mostly in part I just see the NFL going the way of most things that get over regulated - dull and uninteresting. Take NASCAR as a recent example. France and crew took the race out of racing and now they are scrambling to recover a lot of what they lost. Rubbing and tempers are a part of it, other wise go race Indy/CART and keep your courtesy 2" (sorta like dancing with your mom), not much fun.

Deliberately wreck a person - take a 1 lap black flag like you used to, but "racing" for a clean, image correct corporate world is boring. I haven't watched a whole race much less a part of one in 5 - 7 years.

http://www.usafootball.com/articles/...icle/6085/5470


If you're not leading with your helmet to begin with it's pretty difficult to wind up with helmet to helmet contact. Not saying it doesn't happen, just saying it's pretty difficult.

[gvarsity]

The tricky part is when it is inadvertent and you can't judge intent very well from the sidelines. One of the hits I saw fined this weekend looked like the defender lept and the offensive player collapsed down into the hit. Had the offensive player stayed up he would have taken it in the chest and not the head. I'm all for preventing INTENTIONAL injury but accidental is part of the game. Shots to the head the knees and from behind are all already accounted for by rule.

Really though this appears to be a significant increase in the penalty for spearing to the helmet as opposed to an actual rule change. You shouldn't be leading with the top of your helmet period. You do that and hit someone in the head and you get fined and ejected. I think the ejection is a bad idea only because it will be to hard to judge a. intent and b. what actually happened unless it is reviewable and even then it would be hard. Can you imagine the impact if say Troy Polamalu was ejected from a playoff game by a legit hit that looked bad? Easily could change the outcome of a game and be a nightmare for the NFL.

[shilala]

I was gonna say much the same thing, Pete.
It's a business. Business is to make money. The owners don't give a red rat's ass what we think, they need to protect their investment.
I watched the Steeler's game. I don't feel that Harrison intentionally went helmet to helmet in either hit, nor was it his intent. I don't think either were a big deal, but guys got hurt. Guys are gonna get hurt in football whether the hits are legal, questionable, or illegal. It's a violent sport. It's why I watch it.
I'm more concerned with the crybaby way he's handled himself since the game. He's a douche. Don't tell him I said that.

Originally Posted by replicant_argent

Players are getting bigger, stronger, and faster. Until articulated armored uniforms are de riguer (protecting joints, head, and spinal injuries to a factor multiple times the possible generated force) it will become increasingly more dangerous for players. At some point, these players will reach a finite point of training, conditioning, and ability due to the limitations of the human body. We have not reached it yet, and already it is a very dangerous sport, whether the infractions are intentional or unintentional. As far as the homer argument of "Where would I rather cheer for my favorite player?," at some point it may become "from the DL, the hospital, the wheelchair, or the morgue."

Of course, logically, YMMV, if you are a rabid fan. Nothing wrong with being a rabid fan, and if you want to see gladiatorial style combats (ala' MMA), so be it. But the NFL (and their individual owners, coincidentally) must decide how much they want to gamble by taking steps to protect their multimillion dollar assets. Diminishing returns indeed on that investment are possible, if not expected, as these players "progress" to higher ability.

But what do I know? I'm just an average stupid guy.

James Harrison is a serious guy. He loves football and tries to play football the best way he can. You can't blame him for being upset for doing his job and playing defense they way the coaches teach him to, than getting an outrages fine for it. Not everybody thinks the same so you can't get mad at him for his reaction. I agree players should wrap more I've noticed that for years. You see it alot SS's and FS's leading with their head to break up passes. But learning how to tackle at a fundemental midget league level and an NFL level is different. Of course you want to wrap players up but there is more than one was to crack an egg. And NFL coaches teach their players to go for a hit when another player has them wrapped up. Its the fastest and best way to stop the play. They also train them to do that to seperate the player from the ball. That happned on both of Harrison's defensive plays in question. So from that stand point he did his job. Do you guys know a better way to dislodge the ball? Wrapping dosn't do it.

[pinotguy]

This week's development is just a continuation of the "*****fication" of the game, IMO. A couple of years ago, when Hines Ward broke the jaw of that Bengals LB on a perfectly legal, peel back-type block, the league outlawed that. Last year, they outlawed a wedge larger than three players on kick-offs. This year you can't line up directly over the center on FG/PAT attempts - WTF, over? The NFL reaps all kinds of benefits from this kind of contact but is now trying to legislate it and in the middle of the season? There's quite a bit of hypocrisy involved on their part as well. I just read today that earlier in the week, their official merchandise website had a photo available of the Harrison/Massaquoi hit for purchase. (This has subsequently been removed.) So, for a short time, they were making money (or at least trying to) on one of the exact examples they're holding up as taboo. Ray Lewis got it right yesterday when he essentially said that the game is too fast and trying to avoid a big-time collision is not realistic. It also seems like in a lot of these cases, the receivers and tight ends contribute by trying to get "small", which alters their body position and that's when the big hits happen.

Yeah the last couple years have been a joke with the rule changes. I really don't like the decisions the current president has made. But these rule changes to beef up passing and TD's has been going on since the 70's when they made a rule named after a Steelers DB that changed the way they could cover recievers. After that Rivers hit they made the Hines Ward rule. Enoughs Enough! Quit ruining the game I love to watch.

[yachties23]

Originally Posted by Steelergar

What do you guys think of the NFL headquarters changing the way defense is played. Like most people I don't want to see guys get seriously injured when watching a game. However, I love smash mouth, hard hitting, good tackling defense. I enjoy that as much if not more than watching the offense score touchdowns. I have no problem with the NFL going after deliberate hits to the head. But for going after James Harrison for making a smart football move is ridiculous. Whats you take?

James Harrison said he goes out there to hurt people, but he doesn't want to injure people. That hit was as dirty, and wasn't a smart football play. When asked around the league the players always throw his name out there as one of the dirtiest players.

That being said, I think they should fine players for blatantly dirty hits, and if a player continually aims for the head, suspensions should be handed down. I understand its a man's game, but there are limits. Merriweather's hit was intentional, so was Harrison. When your intentions are to knock somebody out of the game, you are asking to open your checkbook up,

I just figured out why the NFL office is cracking down on what they call violent hits. The US Congress had hearings with the NFL during the offseason grilling NFL representives about concussions. I guess retired players were complaining and did not feel they were taken care of corectly by the NFL and went to the goverment. Now we have a bigger problem. What buisness does the US goverment have with how football is played. I guarantee you they put pressure on League headquarters. Whats next? Boxing, MMA, Hockey, Nascar. We got a major problem now!

Originally Posted by yachties23

James Harrison said he goes out there to hurt people, but he doesn't want to injure people. That hit was as dirty, and wasn't a smart football play. When asked around the league the players always throw his name out there as one of the dirtiest players.

That being said, I think they should fine players for blatantly dirty hits, and if a player continually aims for the head, suspensions should be handed down. I understand its a man's game, but there are limits. Merriweather's hit was intentional, so was Harrison. When your intentions are to knock somebody out of the game, you are asking to open your checkbook up,

and thats whats being said of why he got fined. His post game comments not his legal hits.

[yachties23]

Originally Posted by Steelergar

and thats whats being said of why he got fined. His post game comments not his legal hits.

Legal, and clean are two different things. Just because you can do something doesn't make it right. You are a big MMA guy, I've read your posts, I respect your opinions on fighters big time, but here, I disagree bigtime. Lets say Mike Wallace gets tied up by Joe Haden who has his legs wrapped up and is trying to pull away. He has no idea TJ Ward is lined up and Tees off on him. Commercial break. We come back to Wallace being boarded up, and carted off. No where near as appealing as Harrison's hit on Cribbs right?

You can't play favorites here. Yes there are hits that through no fault of the defensive player are to the head (the hit on Jackson this weekend is a good example) but there are players, James Harrison, Jared Allen, Brandon Merriweather, that are notorious for laying dirty hits on defenseless offense players.

From my revelation above, its a bigger problem with the US goverment involved in sports. Even Ray Lewis said those hits were clean. Players around the league are angry at the NFL office right now. Calling a player dirty are certain peoples opinions, thats fine. I would like some examples of these dirty plays though because I watch the Steelers every week I never see them. I see tough smart football played by Harrison. I also see OL try to clothesline him when he is running around them that rarely gets called.