Interesting read on misconceptions on Cuba

[macpappy]

The mayor of New Orleans is scheduled to go on a trade mission to Cuba. Maybe he will find it to his liking and stay.

Seriously though, about 8 years ago someone I know was part of a government sanctioned visit to Havana. He said that what they were shown was a Cuba that was a lot better off than what most believe. He also said that they weren't allowed to go off on their own or talk to anyone without their "tour guide" on hand. Basically they were only allowed to see and hear what the Cuban government wanted them to see and hear.

[Blueface]

Originally Posted by the nub

You can spin it any way you want.

Please explain to me what you mean by this.
You said something illogical by saying in a very authoritative and misleading manner, based on you having been there, that Cubans have no idea of the concept of credit.
I disproved you.
How am I spinning anything?
If what you meant is they have no concept of the use of a credit card, would likely agree with you. However, that is not what you said.
Here are your words again:
For example, the idea of credit is absolutely foreign for most of them

For you to say I can spin it any way I want is very hard for me to not find that comment resentful and that is why this topic sucks a big one each and every time it arises and each and every time someone with little knowledge of our plight, experiences, tribulations, tries to tell a Cuban what is and what isn't about what they live each day.
So many foolishly seem so good at explaining accidents to eye witnesses and yet don't seem to listen to or believe what the real witness says.
You or anyone else on this planet don't want to accept what this Cuban and many others tell you about the truth, fine! Don't. Your choice.
I can't change anyone's mind. I can't ask you accept what I have to say. I can only offer my viewpoint to counter what I see as erroneous ones.
I just ask you be courteous enough to me as a CA member and as a Cuban exile to not call it "My Spin".

Maybe I will ask Alina to post in this thread about her experiences of what eight year old girl and her parents went through to leave the country legally.

Or maybe not, what would be the point? Those that know the truth, know the truth.

[Blueface]

Originally Posted by ahc4353

Maybe I will ask Alina to post in this thread about her experiences of what eight year old girl and her parents went through to leave the country legally.

Or maybe not, what would be the point? Those that know the truth, know the truth.

Al,
It just seems an endless battle, never to be won.
I ask myself each and every time, why do I do it? Why do I bite? Simple answer. I can't see not sharing the truth and clearing up misconceptions. Even if one doesn't believe me, hopefully one at least hears me.
I feel an obligation to the Cuban people and to my relatives to do so.
There are quite a few Cubans on this board that feel as I do on this subject. They are just a heck of a lot smarter than I am and manage to stay away. I would think Alina would be smarter to just stay away and let the world tell us what we crapped out of our assess last night. They are in a much better position to dissect our crap I guess.

[the nub]

Originally Posted by Blueface

Please explain to me what you mean by this.
You said something illogical by saying in a very authoritative and misleading manner, based on you having been there, that Cubans have no idea of the concept of credit.
I disproved you.
How am I spinning anything?
If what you meant is they have no concept of the use of a credit card, would likely agree with you. However, that is not what you said.
Here are your words again:
For example, the idea of credit is absolutely foreign for most of them

For you to say I can spin it any way I want is very hard for me to not find that comment resentful and that is why this topic sucks a big one each and every time it arises and each and every time someone with little knowledge of our plight, experiences, tribulations, tries to tell a Cuban what is and what isn't about what they live each day.
So many foolishly seem so good at explaining accidents to eye witnesses and yet don't seem to listen to or believe what the real witness says.
You or anyone else on this planet don't want to accept what this Cuban and many others tell you about the truth, fine! Don't. Your choice.
I can't change anyone's mind. I can't ask you accept what I have to say. I can only offer my viewpoint to counter what I see as erroneous ones.
I just ask you be courteous enough to me as a CA member and as a Cuban exile to not call it "My Spin".

I will consider being polite when you stop telling me what I did or did not witness and experience on my many trips to Havana. Essentially you are saying the experiences and conversations that I have had did not exist. You seem to think that I'm some sort of Castro sympathizer who holidays in Varadero. How did you disprove me? How do you know who I've talked to? How do you know where I've stayed? Did I say ALL or EVERY in any of my OPINIONS? You say what you say as fact. How can it be fact if there is more than one side?!??!?! I go to Havana to see, learn and experience- without bias mind you. I have no political agenda. My great grandfather was shipped to Cuba in the late 1800's. Chinese laborers were treated worse than the slaves. Of course you knew that. Or maybe you will say that didn't happen. Obviously you know everything and everyone MUST agree with you or else he is wrong. I believe you are the one being resentful.

[Blueface]

Originally Posted by the nub

I will consider being polite when you stop telling me what I did or did not witness and experience on my many trips to Havana. Essentially you are saying the experiences and conversations that I have had did not exist. You seem to think that I'm some sort of Castro sympathizer who holidays in Varadero. How did you disprove me? How do you know who I've talked to? How do you know where I've stayed? Did I say ALL or EVERY in any of my OPINIONS? You say what you say as fact. How can it be fact if there is more than one side?!??!?! I go to Havana to see, learn and experience- without bias mind you. I have no political agenda. My great grandfather was shipped to Cuba in the late 1800's. Chinese laborers were treated worse than the slaves. Of course you knew that. Or maybe you will say that didn't happen. Obviously you know everything and everyone MUST agree with you or else he is wrong. I believe you are the one being resentful.

You my friend don't deserve the decency of a response beyond this.
You have done nothing but make suppositions here and you have admitted your intent to be inciteful.
I will hold back my words for you that I truly feel.
You are a new member to my ignore list. A very elite list indeed consisting of two plus you.
Have a good life.

[M1903A1]

Originally Posted by macpappy

Seriously though, about 8 years ago someone I know was part of a government sanctioned visit to Havana. He said that what they were shown was a Cuba that was a lot better off than what most believe. He also said that they weren't allowed to go off on their own or talk to anyone without their "tour guide" on hand. Basically they were only allowed to see and hear what the Cuban government wanted them to see and hear.

Several years ago a number of friends of mine (all American) were able to go on an educational trip to Cuba to "fantrip" the old Hershey Cuban interurban line. A couple of them shot video of the trip, most of which was outside of the tourist areas. While everybody else was watching the train, I was looking at the surroundings, most of which looked downright fourth-world. I found it very sad to watch.

[wrench turner 85]

This paper is not worth wipping my a$$ with. granted that if the people are "happy" in cuba then why put this propaganda out, just leave it alone, this is not ponted at anybody in CA for the recored. people are going to beleave what they wont.

Originally Posted by Blueface

You my friend don't deserve the decency of a response beyond this.
You have done nothing but make suppositions here and you have admitted your intent to be inciteful.
I will hold back my words for you that I truly feel.
You are a new member to my ignore list. A very elite list indeed consisting of two plus you.
Have a good life.

You have PNOON and Icehog on ignore!?

[the nub]

Originally Posted by Blueface

You my friend don't deserve the decency of a response beyond this.
You have done nothing but make suppositions here and you have admitted your intent to be inciteful.
I will hold back my words for you that I truly feel.
You are a new member to my ignore list. A very elite list indeed consisting of two plus you.
Have a good life.

Get over yourself. Intent to be inciteful?

I think you should re-read your analogy about the green/white car. YOU are the one telling me that my car is green.

[Col. Kurtz]

A few photos from Havana for your enjoyment! (May 14 and others). I don't think I can comment without getting this closed down.

[md4958]

Originally Posted by ahc4353

Maybe I will ask Alina to post in this thread about her experiences of what eight year old girl and her parents went through to leave the country legally.

Or maybe not, what would be the point? Those that know the truth, know the truth.

dont worry fellas, Alina is WAYYYYYY more interesting than Al. Younger and hotter too!

[Blueface]

Originally Posted by ahc4353

You have PNOON and Icehog on ignore!?

No way Tom as he is way too big to mess with.
Peter is quite far from me and can't get me that easily so yeah, he is one.
The other is James (Croatan) for being such a fan of Guantanamera cigars.
(You two know I am kidding - you were on my ignore but just took you off)

Gotta try that "ignore" thing more often.
Sure cuts down the the size of the page and amount of stuff to read.

[wrench turner 85]

hey col. K, mabey its me but GWB looks like a pr*n star from the 70's with a mustash.

[icehog3]

Originally Posted by ahc4353

.

Did somebody say something?

[Col. Kurtz]

Originally Posted by wrench turner 85

hey col. K, mabey its me but GWB looks like a pr*n star from the 70's with a mustash.

"My name is George and I'm here to check your plumbing. Now where is that dishwasher...."

[Blueface]

Update:

Freedom of Speech is in fact alive and well in Cuba.
You are free to speak and then be beaten.
Here is Yoani's latest experience.
http://www.miamiherald.com/581/story/1321125.html

Please note the prize Yoani won and is not allowed to go receive is NOT in the US. It is in Spain, a country Cuba has relations with.
Cuban blogger Yoani Sanchez, speaks during a interview with AFP in Havana, on May 6, 2008. Sanchez won the Ortega y Gasset prize in Spain for digital journalism for her critical Internet blog on Cuban reality. Cuban authorities have refused to give a travel visa to Sanchez so she can receive one of Spain's top journalism awards in Madrid on Wednesday, said Spanish newspaper El Pais which hands out the awards annually.

[CBI_2]

Here is another site I found a a little while ago that I think is very informative.
http://www.therealcuba.com/index.htm

[VirtualSmitty]

Originally Posted by CBI_2

Here is another site I found a a little while ago that I think is very informative.
http://www.therealcuba.com/index.htm

I did not know the Cuban Guayabera was the perfect gift. i knew it was elegant and easily distinguishable by the fine cut but the fact that it's made entirely of Irish linen makes me wonder what exactly makes it a Cuban Guayabera. Or is the ultimate Guayabera a fusion of Cuban and Irish culture?

[NCRadioMan]

Originally Posted by VirtualSmitty

I did not know the Cuban Guayabera was the perfect gift. i knew it was elegant and easily distinguishable by the fine cut but the fact that it's made entirely of Irish linen makes me wonder what exactly makes it a Cuban Guayabera. Or is the ultimate Guayabera a fusion of Cuban and Irish culture?

That, my friend, is the question that haunts me.