stirring the pot local B&M vs big internet

[Footbag]

I live in PA, and for the most part, with just a few exceptions, my local B&M's have very reasonable prices. I live about an hour from CI, and although I don't really consider them my B&M; I don't have any problems ordering from them.

That said, I will always give preference to the local B&M. They have smoking lounges and put up with and lobby against smoking laws, and they need support. I can always find something to buy at a B&M.

[MedicCook]

I buy at both depending on what my needs are. My B&M has their own master roller so the only place I can get his amazing cigars is at the B&M. I have not really noticed any difference in cigars.

[neoflex]

I'm in the no difference camp, although I sometimes feel the Joes deals are some sort of seconds as the sticks don't always seem to be up to par with their regular retail counterparts. Like others mentioned, to test this correctly you would need to buy specimens from both retailers and let them sit in your controlled environment for at least a month and than pop the bands off and have others smoke them blindly. You also have to keep in mind to that some retailers sell smokes online that manufacturers go through great lengths to keep them from hitting the online market but the online retailers buy them through a Brick & Morter and in turn put them online so who is to say everything you are getting was meant for online sales only?
Again, as mentioned previously the logistics of having two different smokes for different markets would just be too costly to make it worth their while IMHO.

[Starscream]

I don't beleive that there are two awparate standards of tobacco, one for b&m's and one for internet retailers. I have noticed that I tend to enjoy sticks from b&m's more. I assume this is an aging issue.
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[Homebrewer]

Hmmmm. Can you give us a recent example with brand/size and the result. What did the tasters say?

[replicant_argent]

I think you are full of beans. But you can have your beans any way that you want. I am OK with that. Age of the sticks would be the variable that makes a difference here. Your Mileage May Vary.


No test needed for me, I just smoke em and try not to overthink it too much. I have the palate of a goat, and the attitude to match.

[JaKaacH]

Originally Posted by replicant_argent

I think you are full of beans. But you can have your beans any way that you want. I am OK with that. Age of the sticks would be the variable that makes a difference here. Your Mileage May Vary.


No test needed for me, I just smoke em and try not to overthink it too much. I have the palate of a goat, and the attitude to match.

They are just cigars, smoke'em up yum..!!

Is the bottle of wine enjoyed by the glass at the resturant better than the same bottle at home???

[Raralith]

Relax Legend, I think you need a smoke. We are giving you our thoughts and opinions, and obviously most of us disagree with you. Take it with a grain of salt because in the end, if you believe it, there's nothing we can say to persuade you.

After taking a moment to think about this, I don't believe a B&M has superior cigars to internet retailers. It comes down to business, and it is completely different than your third point you made. Cigar manufacters are a business, pure and simple; they make money. Pepping is a hardy fellow that gives you a 3 pack of Tat Blacks when you purchase a box, but ever wonder why some Tat's are so expensive? They are rolled in Miami, and compared to Nicaragua, the cost of employing those rollers is very high. Why doesn't Peppin eat the cost? Because he's a businessman. While love and talent of ones work is important in creating a create cigar line, making money is why they are in business.

I think most cigar manufacter's realize now that the internet could be the next big thing in the industry, if not already. B&M's, my guess, probably sell less cigars than internet retailers, and I think most of us here can understand why; money, money, money. CI sells a box of NC Oliva V Lancero for $140, my local B&M sells them for $12 each. I cannot think of a single B&M (excluding those that sell online) that can beat online retailers simply because they get a better price. If you are a manufacter, why in the world would you send inferior product to your largest market base, and send your best product to a smaller market base? It doesn't.

I would like to know Rob at Taboo on his thoughts on this. He owns a B&M, and sells online. While he isn't a big guy like CI, he might ship a lot more than any local B&M can because he can advertise on forums, gives great discounts and prices, and is well known for his customer service. I'm fairly certain that he would say there really is no difference.

[chenvt]

I've never had a problem with an internet vendor.. any sticks that arrive in poor condition, I've always been able to get a refund.. For example, I got a box of Tat VI Angeles from CI, 5 sticks came with split foots. One e-mail later, my credit card was refunded by 5 sticks..

B&Ms vary.. the one down the street from me is horrible and I will NEVER ever go back..

In reality even though the big internet hit may sell 100 times the volume of one local. The fact is there are thousands of locals. And keeping them in business is very important to the industry. This is why rocky and nick perdomo show up at my local lounge.

Again I'm not talking about a vastly inferior product. Same tobacco. Just not the best. Giving them a small edge will keep them open and ordering. The average internet ordering guy is happy to get his smokes cheaper and with the same placebo effect mentioned above thinks there is no difference. I don't know how many guys I've heard or read about getting seconds and saying they are just as good. Do a side by side. Most are not even close.


I'm aware its an unprovable arguement for both sides. But I think its a fun debate and would be cool to do amongst the inmates.

[cort]

Wow Shawn if this is true I need your number and will meet you at Zarkas one day this week.

Very intersting but hard to believe.

Legend, i'd be interested in participating in that little experiment of yours.
Although i find it hard to believe that b&m's have better sticks than online retailers, i would be interested in doing a side by side comparison and judging from their.

[SeanGAR]

Here is the statistical table for a 2 tailed paired forced choice preference test, which is what you are planning if you give 2 different cigars to people and ask which they prefer (and don't take no preference as an answer).



As you can see, it is not vaid to run the experiment with 6 of fewer observations and that you need more than 8 observations so you don't require 100% agreement. We never run these tests with less than 72 observations if the data are important. But for the sake of argument, if you have 25 observations (i.e., 25 different people smoked the cigars and gave you their preference), 18 of them would have to prefer one of the 2 smokes for the difference to be significant at the 5% level.

And you would need to run the experiment using a number of different comparisons.

I did something similar when I ran an accelerated aging experiment several years ago. I asked people to smoke the cigars side by side, and compare them as the burned down. I did learn that you need to find people who are motivated and who have palates that you can trust.

[Smokin Gator]

I don't know why... but this thread really bothers me. It bothered me at the old site and it has taken pretty much the same course here.

Even if you were "testing" the exact same vitola of the same marca there are too many other variables involved to make any statements as to the differences based on internet versus B&M sources.

You guys have fun with it if you so choose.

[icehog3]

Originally Posted by Smokin Gator

I don't know why... but this thread really bothers me. It bothered me at the old site and it has taken pretty much the same course here.

Even if you were "testing" the exact same vitola of the same marca there are too many other variables involved to make any statements as to the differences based on internet versus B&M sources.
You guys have fun with it if you so choose.

Agreed 100%.

[jledou]

IMO, a cigar is a cigar and yes all of the factors may change the taste, but there have been times that one out of a box will taste different from the rest correct?

That being said, I will go to the B&M to try a cigar and if I like it a lot I will order a box from the internet. If I don't like it enough for a box I may buy one at the B&M from time to time. If I didn't like it at all, I was only out one stick and I can try it again later when I forget what it tasted like.

For me it comes down to I cannot see paying that much more for a box at a B&M versus the same thing on the net.

Originally Posted by Smokin Gator

I don't know why... but this thread really bothers me. It bothered me at the old site and it has taken pretty much the same course here.

Even if you were "testing" the exact same vitola of the same marca there are too many other variables involved to make any statements as to the differences based on internet versus B&M sources.

You guys have fun with it if you so choose.

Agreed there are a boat load of variables and the testing does not have statistical significance. But it is still odd and telling that 100% notice a difference and always in favor of the local.

[Col. Kurtz]

If I were Pepin, Fuente, et al. I wouldn't want my name on an inferior stick. It wouldn't matter to me where the stick was destined, internet or B&M.

I have gotten some putrid and great sticks from B&M and online. These are handmade products that are subject to minor variations unit to unit. I understand variations in color are sorted together for box presentation purposes, so it's plausible there are big differences in wrapper color within a blend. As far as purposely putting lower quality tobacco in a certain batch, not buying it. Aren't torcedors issued their bales for the days rolling?

I would imagine that the most important thing to aim for within a blend/brand is consistency.

I guess it boils down to this: If you like cigars from your B&M buy them (I'm sure they appreciate it), If you like them from online sources, buy those (I'm sure they appreciate it as well.) Not much on the conspiracy theories, but that's just me. I may be wrong.

Originally Posted by Col. Kurtz

If I were Pepin, Fuente, et al. I wouldn't want my name on an inferior stick. It wouldn't matter to me where the stick was destined, internet or B&M.

I have gotten some putrid and great sticks from B&M and online. These are handmade products that are subject to minor variations unit to unit. I understand variations in color are sorted together for box presentation purposes, so it's plausible there are big differences in wrapper color within a blend. As far as purposely putting lower quality tobacco in a certain batch, not buying it. Aren't torcedors issued their bales for the days rolling?

I would imagine that the most important thing to aim for within a blend/brand is consistency.

I guess it boils down to this: If you like cigars from your B&M buy them (I'm sure they appreciate it), If you like them from online sources, buy those (I'm sure they appreciate it as well.) Not much on the conspiracy theories, but that's just me. I may be wrong.

Once again guys. No conspiracy, not vastly inferior. just noticeable difference.

Originally Posted by Smokin Gator

I don't know why... but this thread really bothers me. It bothered me at the old site and it has taken pretty much the same course here.

Even if you were "testing" the exact same vitola of the same marca there are too many other variables involved to make any statements as to the differences based on internet versus B&M sources.

You guys have fun with it if you so choose.

I couldn't of said it better.
Too many variables. Enjoy cigars, whenever, however and from where ever you choose. Just enjoy them fellas.