NFL Holdouts....Your thoughts? - Page 2

jonumberone · 08-08-2011, 01:36 PM

I never understood the argument that the players are overpaid.
You read gripe after gripe about how much money the players make, but never a peep about the owners income.
A lot was written about this locally when Jeter was in contract negotiations.
In 2009 the Yankees reported 441 million dollars in profits after operating costs and earned another 184+ million from the Yes network (84 million for rights & 100+ million in dividends).
Why did fans want so badly for Jeter to make 12 mil and the Yankees to make 444mil?

So it's not a complete threadjack,
The players should have the right to holdout, until the Owners guarantee contracts.
Players in the NFL aren't only asked to rework their contract when they underperform, sometimes they are asked to do so when they live up to them for the benefit of the team.
Marc Sanchez did so this year after taking his team to back to back AFC championship games.

jledou · 08-08-2011, 01:41 PM

Once upon a time there were players that would play the game with barely enough to live on just so they could play the game...

There are a lot of people who would love to make that kind of measly living for playing a game sitting on the sideline called real life....

And not all hold outs live up to the hype once they get a new contract ... see Larry Johnson ....

E.J. · 08-08-2011, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loki

he signed a contract. if i decide i'm under payed at work I can't just stop showing up to get more i'm gona get ****ing fired, not get more money. play out your contract and then try and "get dat papah".

After reading what I said and then responding like this, you are either trolling or just lack business sense....

Either way, that is okay....no harm, no foul...

jledou · 08-08-2011, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonumberone

but never a peep about the owners income.

Not saying they are not overpaid also here. I don't feel sorry for the owners one bit when I shell out $27 for parking + $85 for a ticket + $11 for a beer +

chippewastud79 · 08-08-2011, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jledou

Once upon a time there were players that would play the game with barely enough to live on just so they could play the game...

And they were getting screwed by collective bargaining agreements and owners who were making tons of money back then too. Unfortunately society has embraced football as its go-to spectator sport making owners tons of money and making the NFL a multi-billion dollar business over the past few decades. Baseball players once played for peanuts too, but now there are players making +$20 million per season on guaranteed contracts with nothing to stop them from collecting the money, including retirement. The NFL has failed to keep up with similar (read: ANY) guaranteed money despite having the shortest careers and highest injuries.

E.J. · 08-08-2011, 01:47 PM

People have to get their mind around the fact that this isn't a stinking game.... This is big business and these guys work for a living. Almost every one of them will be given a pink slip, no longer having the qualifications to perform the job.

I'm with Dom here.... These guys are paid what they deserve to be paid....it is a free market economy.... It is the exact reason for lockouts and strikes, these guys are business men that go to work and perform their trade....

jonumberone · 08-08-2011, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jledou

Once upon a time there were players that would play the game with barely enough to live on just so they could play the game...
.

This is a fairytale. No one ever played professional ball for less money because they loved it so.

In MLB players were trapped with teams who could pay them what they wanted due to the reserve clause.
Did players play for far less money than they do now? Yes
Were they offered huge sums of $ and turn it down for love of the game? NO

They played ball for less money because it payed more than the other options they had.

chippewastud79 · 08-08-2011, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jledou

Not saying they are not overpaid also here. I don't feel sorry for the owners one bit when I shell out $27 for parking + $85 for a ticket + $11 for a beer +

But fans don't hold out anything but their wallets when ticket prices and concessions get higher, but it seems that people have strong opinions about players trying to capitalize on their success.

BigAsh · 08-08-2011, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by E.J.

People have to get their mind around the fact that this isn't a stinking game.... This is big business and these guys work for a living. Almost every one of them will be given a pink slip, no longer having the qualifications to perform the job.

I'm with Dom here.... These guys are paid what they deserve to be paid....it is a free market economy.... It is the exact reason for lockouts and strikes, these guys are business men that go to work and perform their trade....

I agree when it comes time for free agency....go out and get what the "market" will bear....but not the issue here....

kelmac07 · 08-08-2011, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chippewastud79

But fans don't hold out anything but their wallets when ticket prices and concessions get higher, but it seems that people have strong opinions about players trying to capitalize on their success.

While I am not an owner supporter by any means (but they are business owners and not one us of here would enjoy having others tell us how to run our business). I have ZERO problems with a player capitalizing on their success AFTER their current contract expires/is about to expire. Some of these players are in year 2 of a 4-5 year deal, but because they had a career year, they are going to hold out??? HONOR the contract you signed from the beginning.

chippewastud79 · 08-08-2011, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigAsh

I agree when it comes time for free agency....go out and get what the "market" will bear....but not the issue here....

Again, if he gets hurt during the season, will the team negotiate with him as if he was never injured? No. Thusly he could get nothing. The goal is to sign a new contract to get a nice potential signing bonus and some guaranteed money. There is nothing to say after the new contract is negotiated that the owners couldn't cut him and not have to pay him another dollar. The owners don't have to honor contracts, why are players expected to?

kelmac07 · 08-08-2011, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chippewastud79

The owners don't have to honor contracts, why are players expected to?

The lightbulb just came on...very valid point here.

chippewastud79 · 08-08-2011, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kelmac07

While I am not an owner supporter by any means (but they are business owners and not one us of here would enjoy having others tell us how to run our business). I have ZERO problems with a player capitalizing on their success AFTER their current contract expires/is about to expire. Some of these players are in year 2 of a 4-5 year deal, but because they had a career year, they are going to hold out??? HONOR the contract you signed from the beginning.

If players can be punished (cut) for under-performing, why can't they be rewarded (new contract) for over-performing?

jonumberone · 08-08-2011, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigAsh

I agree when it comes time for free agency....go out and get what the "market" will bear....but not the issue here....

Quote:

Originally Posted by kelmac07

HONOR the contract you signed from the beginning.

If Desean Jackson would have blown his knee out returning the punt, that put the nail in the coffin of the Giants season, that I will never forgive Matt Dodge for not kicking out of bounds, would the Eagles honor their end of an already signed contract?

Probably not!
So how can you begrudge him for trying to capitalize on a good year, when he could be cut due to one botched play where he gets hurt?

chippewastud79 · 08-08-2011, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kelmac07

The lightbulb just came on...very valid point here.

I've tried to point it out a few times.

No one is complaning about Adam Dunn making $13.5 million dollars this year, and he can retire tomorrow and still get the rest of the money in the contract he signed and the owners of baseball teams can do nothing. I think the Rangers still owe A-Rod about $16 million, the Knicks owe Alan Houston millions and he retired like 7 years ago.

The money in other sports, which is guaranteed, is ridiculous compared to the NFL and the player gets every dollar in those contracts, whether he performs to it or not. The NFL has very little guaranteed money, only signing bonuses and even sometimes those are prorated over longer periods of time and can be forfeited if the player is cut or retires.

kelmac07 · 08-08-2011, 02:03 PM

One point we can all agree on is that the NFL needs to start to guarantee contracts.

chippewastud79 · 08-08-2011, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kelmac07

One point we can all agree on is that the NFL needs to start to guarantee contracts.

Yes, but it won't happen. Same as there will never be an uncapped season.

NCRadioMan · 08-08-2011, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kelmac07

One point we can all agree on is that the NFL needs to start to guarantee contracts.

I don't agree with that. The injury rate is too great to guarantee contracts. If you are good enough, and stay healthy, that's pretty much a guarantee.

BigAsh · 08-08-2011, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kelmac07

One point we can all agree on is that the NFL needs to start to guarantee contracts.

not happening in the next 10 years, til the new CBA expires...

kelmac07 · 08-08-2011, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NCRadioMan

I don't agree with that. The injury rate is too great to guarantee contracts. If you are good enough, and stay healthy, that's pretty much a guarantee.

So what about the players with career threatening injuries from the game? Does the NFL need to make things right here? Or are the players just out there? IF I stay healthy I get what's coming my way...the owners are getting pair either way. Time to give back to the players that made the game what it is (I know, I know...this goes back to being told how to run your own business).

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigAsh

not happening in the next 10 years, til the new CBA expires...

Sad, but true!!

08-08-2011, 01:36 PM	#21
jonumberone Raw Dog Join Date: Jun 2010 First Name: Dom Location: Exit 8A Posts: 6,484 Trading: (62)	Re: NFL Holdouts....Your thoughts? I never understood the argument that the players are overpaid. You read gripe after gripe about how much money the players make, but never a peep about the owners income. A lot was written about this locally when Jeter was in contract negotiations. In 2009 the Yankees reported 441 million dollars in profits after operating costs and earned another 184+ million from the Yes network (84 million for rights & 100+ million in dividends). Why did fans want so badly for Jeter to make 12 mil and the Yankees to make 444mil? So it's not a complete threadjack, The players should have the right to holdout, until the Owners guarantee contracts. Players in the NFL aren't only asked to rework their contract when they underperform, sometimes they are asked to do so when they live up to them for the benefit of the team. Marc Sanchez did so this year after taking his team to back to back AFC championship games. __________________ Sex junkie looking for a dealer

08-08-2011, 01:41 PM	#22
jledou Have My Own Room Join Date: Oct 2008 First Name: Jay Location: Kansas Posts: 2,224 Trading: (27)	Re: NFL Holdouts....Your thoughts? Once upon a time there were players that would play the game with barely enough to live on just so they could play the game... There are a lot of people who would love to make that kind of measly living for playing a game sitting on the sideline called real life.... And not all hold outs live up to the hype once they get a new contract ... see Larry Johnson ....

08-08-2011, 01:47 PM	#26
E.J. I'm nuts for the place Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 3,218 Trading: (21)	Re: NFL Holdouts....Your thoughts? People have to get their mind around the fact that this isn't a stinking game.... This is big business and these guys work for a living. Almost every one of them will be given a pink slip, no longer having the qualifications to perform the job. I'm with Dom here.... These guys are paid what they deserve to be paid....it is a free market economy.... It is the exact reason for lockouts and strikes, these guys are business men that go to work and perform their trade....

08-08-2011, 02:03 PM	#36
kelmac07 Resident Maduro Whore!! Join Date: Apr 2009 First Name: Mac Location: Newport News, VA Posts: 27,322 Trading: (218)	Re: NFL Holdouts....Your thoughts? One point we can all agree on is that the NFL needs to start to guarantee contracts. __________________ Dom in the MLB thread "I could probably get you to wear a Yankee hat for a Maduro!"