Cuban Tobacco

[LostAbbott]

I would think many experienced botl's would notice as well, but with Habanos S.A. being a murkey quasi government company that recently reported completely bogus and uncheckable revenue and profit numbers it is really hard to know what they are doing or would do... I do not know enough about the making of a cigar to know if they could do it or not, and I also agree it would be a hard secret to keep...
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[GWN]

There are also a few companies around the world that buy Cuban tobacco and roll their own cigars. One guy is here in Toronto, though not sure if he's still in business.
I also had someone bring me back this stick from Europe. Note though, that these cigars are little like authentic Habanos:

[shilala]

Originally Posted by Reaver2145

Some of there blenders are good some are just crap COUGH party E5/trinny short robusto COUGH but what you say about cuban and non cuban tobacco tasting completely different is correct and im sure we would of noticed the change in flavour if it was true.

My point about blenders didn't have anything to do with a particular cigar. Personally, I don't like Partagas across the board. That has no bearing on what they do.
Here's a for instance...
I make spaghetti sauce every year. I make it from the same vegetables from the same seed from the same soil each and every year. I use the same recipe, same tools, same everything, yet every year the sauce tastes different.
When I say different, I don't mean a little different. I mean worlds different. If I gave you a jar of sauce from 2005 and 2008, you'd think I purposely made completely different sauce.
That difference is simply from the growing seasons and how it's expressed by my vegetables.
Blenders can't allow that wide variance in any marca. From one year to another the marca has to be very close to it's mean. They deal with the same ingredient inconsistancies I do, yet they're talented enough to overcome that and produce something, year to year, that's remarkably alike.
I can appreciate that talent because I can't do the same thing with my spaghetti sauce. Not even close. And I make damn good sauce.

[md4958]

Originally Posted by Reaver2145

Do these Cohibas have a orange-yellow band with a non embossed chobia logo and two rows of white dots above the cohiba because they are totally legit..

Please dont spread this mis-information with such authority.

First of all it is impossible for somebody to tell by the band if a cigar is legitimate. If the band is wrong it is a dead give away, but I have seen some real bands on fake cigars.

Second, since October 1960 boxes are stamped "Hecho en Cuba" not Made in Cuba. If you have seen or own a box of Cohibas with this stamp they are fake.

[md4958]

Originally Posted by shilala

My point about blenders didn't have anything to do with a particular cigar. Personally, I don't like Partagas across the board. That has no bearing on what they do.
Here's a for instance...
I make spaghetti sauce every year. I make it from the same vegetables from the same seed from the same soil each and every year. I use the same recipe, same tools, same everything, yet every year the sauce tastes different.
When I say different, I don't mean a little different. I mean worlds different. If I gave you a jar of sauce from 2005 and 2008, you'd think I purposely made completely different sauce.
That difference is simply from the growing seasons and how it's expressed by my vegetables.
Blenders can't allow that wide variance in any marca. From one year to another the marca has to be very close to it's mean. They deal with the same ingredient inconsistancies I do, yet they're talented enough to overcome that and produce something, year to year, that's remarkably alike.
I can appreciate that talent because I can't do the same thing with my spaghetti sauce. Not even close. And I make damn good sauce.

Excellent point Scotty. Blending is an art. Getting a marca to taste like that marc from a natural product that has variances in the growing conditions (water, temperature, etc) is no easy task. Making a BBF taste like a BBF from 2007 tobacco, and 2012 tobacco is even more difficult.

[shilala]

Originally Posted by md4958

Excellent point Scotty. Blending is an art. Getting a marca to taste like that marc from a natural product that has variances in the growing conditions (water, temperature, etc) is no easy task. Making a BBF taste like a BBF from 2007 tobacco, and 2012 tobacco is even more difficult.

The hell of it is that there's plenty of 2007's out there for people to call them on the 2012's. They can't slip, or the shelves will stack to the roof with BBF's. Or they'll just stick an EL Band on them and crank them out at twice the buck.
They really do have a "can't lose" product. Their tobacco is so remarkable and different that they can push every pound out the door.
They're only limited by the size of the growing region as to how much tobacco they can crank out.
You'd think, that after so many years, it really doesn't so much come down to the soil anymore. It's got to be about spent, at least to the point where they have to use fertilzers. Maybe not, I don't know the composition of their soil at all. Maybe that it's being volcanic in origin it breaks down very slowly and it'll remain viable for years to come. I'm sure that info isn't readily available.

[lenguamor]

Originally Posted by CigarNut

If Cuba was importing tobacco I don't think that they would be able to keep it secret...

Couldn't have said it better.

Originally Posted by CigarNut

If Cuba was importing tobacco I don't think that they would be able to keep it secret...

EXACTLY. Not only that, but think about how proud Cubans are?? To them, their tobacco is perfect... And to many others

[Malazan]

Originally Posted by shilala

The hell of it is that there's plenty of 2007's out there for people to call them on the 2012's. They can't slip, or the shelves will stack to the roof with BBF's. Or they'll just stick an EL Band on them and crank them out at twice the buck.
They really do have a "can't lose" product. Their tobacco is so remarkable and different that they can push every pound out the door.
They're only limited by the size of the growing region as to how much tobacco they can crank out.
You'd think, that after so many years, it really doesn't so much come down to the soil anymore. It's got to be about spent, at least to the point where they have to use fertilzers. Maybe not, I don't know the composition of their soil at all. Maybe that it's being volcanic in origin it breaks down very slowly and it'll remain viable for years to come. I'm sure that info isn't readily available.

I found this:

"Cuban" Soil: Myth & Fact


Soil consists of a rock, decaying organic matter, air and airborne gases, water, microorganisms, and living roots. Soil varies with the type of vegetation, climate, and parent rock material. Soil fertility is determined in part by texture, chemical composition, water supply, and temperature. It can be maintained or improved by fertilizers or by cultivation practices, such as cover crops and crop rotation. tobacco plant
Tobacco plant at 3-4 days after emergence.


The rock matrix supports the plant physically, and allows penetration of roots through spaces between the rock particles, along with the components listed above. Going from the finest to the coarsest particle size, we have clay, sand, loam, or a combination of them, e.g., sandy loam. Tobacco prefers sandy loam. The chemical nature of the rock particles can determine the "pH"(acidity vs. alkalinity) of the soil, and often must be adjusted with applications of minerals.

The organic material that makes up the humus is important in providing the natural nutrients the plant needs. Fertilization is almost universally needed for the soil to be capable of providing all those necessary for tobacco's growth and health.

Rainwater is distilled water, but it can carry airborne dust and other particulate matter to the plants, albeit temporarily and in minute quantities. Ground water, though, can carry dissolved underground materials from distant sources to the plant's roots, helping or hindering its growth.

Air and naturally-occurring gaseous elements, e.g., chlorine, in contact with the root system can also affect the plant's well-being.

The farmer faces all these variables when he begins the planting process, when selecting the microcosm that will best suit his plants' needs. This is where the concept of "Cuban" soil fails ... Cuba has no patent on its soil. Worldwide, micro-regions have soils that are essentially identical to the soil in places in Cuba. Also, just as different brands of Cuban cigars can taste different, one can find different soils in different Cuban provinces, different farms, and even different locations on any given farm. Since soil is not uniform from place to place, how can anyone define "Cuban" soil?

The once-prime tobacco-growing regions of Cuba ... notably Vuelta Abajo, Santa Clara, Pinar del Rio, Artemisa ... underwent the most epochal change in their soil composition in 300 years of development, when the Cuban regime plowed tobacco under and grew sugar for Russia for 20 years after the Embargo. Sugar, a perennial, is avaricious in stripping nutrients from the soil, and it is estimated that these growing regions may need another 50 years to return to prime tobacco land. If Cuban soil had magical powers for plant growth, why must Spain supply the island with thousands of tons of fertilizer annually?

Few, younger smokers have any idea what damage the Marxist regime really wreaked on Cuba's tobacco industry in the 1960s and beyond. To them, the revolution and embargo are vague concepts. In addition to degrading the farmland, Castro also disbanded Cuban Land, the island's leading tobacco research institute, along with all others, and reassigned tobacco researchers and farmers to the production of sugar. Virtually none of the voluminous agricultural archives were considered valuable, and therefore discarded. Luckily, some researchers and growers had the foresight to personally retain some records. In his ongoing associations with these peer specialists, Vogel succeeded in obtaining some of those data. These records, and his decades of experience as an agronomical engineer and geneticist, enabled him to use this priceless soil analyses. Vogel now had the information he needed to replicate the optimal growing conditions for his unique bank of pre-Embargo Cuban seeds.

[pnoon]

Originally Posted by md4958

Please dont spread this mis-information with such authority.

First of all it is impossible for somebody to tell by the band if a cigar is legitimate. If the band is wrong it is a dead give away, but I have seen some real bands on fake cigars.

Second, since October 1960 boxes are stamped "Hecho en Cuba" not Made in Cuba. If you have seen or own a box of Cohibas with this stamp they are fake.

Only sometimes, Moe. I have seen some horrible looking bands on authentic Cuban cigars. Conclusions cannot always be drawn from the band alone.

Originally Posted by md4958

Please dont spread this mis-information with such authority.

First of all it is impossible for somebody to tell by the band if a cigar is legitimate. If the band is wrong it is a dead give away, but I have seen some real bands on fake cigars.

Second, since October 1960 boxes are stamped "Hecho en Cuba" not Made in Cuba. If you have seen or own a box of Cohibas with this stamp they are fake.

Sorry ill spread whatever information i please and the fact i said it in such a way to suggest the fact i was joking should be a dead giveaway.

Originally Posted by Reaver2145

Sorry ill spread whatever information i please and the fact i said it in such a way to suggest the fact i was joking should be a dead giveaway.

Your grammar and punctuation are horrible. It's hard for anyone to read and understand your posts.

[icehog3]

Originally Posted by Reaver2145

Sorry ill spread whatever information i please and the fact i said it in such a way to suggest the fact i was joking should be a dead giveaway.

Well, in the written word it is often harder to discern "joking", and I am sure there may be some who thought your post was serious.

[srduggins]

I thought he was serious, but then I just dismissed it as he didn't know what he was talking about. Something that I've been doing more and more lately.

[jluck]

Originally Posted by icehog3

Well, in the written word it is often harder to discern "joking", and I am sure there may be some who thought your post was serious.

X2. It is hard enough to detect sarcastic inflection in proper English. This thread has potential to have lots of good information for persons wanting to learn.
Maybe less arrogance and "comedy" and more fact. cheers.

[pnoon]

Originally Posted by Reaver2145

Sorry ill spread whatever information i please and the fact i said it in such a way to suggest the fact i was joking should be a dead giveaway.

And the community at large will do what IT can to clarify any false information that MAY be interpreted as factual - especially to newer members.

We are fairly laid back here with very few rules. But the I'll do and say what I please approach really doesn't fly here. We are all guests here in the Asylum.

[Don Fernando]

Originally Posted by CigarNut

If Cuba was importing tobacco I don't think that they would be able to keep it secret...

In the industry it ain't a secret anymore.

For example: Alejandro Robaina's son has a huge farm in Ecuador. He doesn't produce cigars, nobody buys his tobacco but it 'strangely' disappears every year.

Another example: The MC Open series don't even taste like a real Cuban.

[md4958]

Originally Posted by pnoon

Conclusions cannot always be drawn from the band alone.

Absolutely true Pete. This is at the heart of what I was saying... but apparently I dont have a sense of humor anyway.

Just add the new guy to the growing list of people Ive pissed off this week

:

[pnoon]

Originally Posted by md4958

Absolutely true Pete. This is at the heart of what I was saying... but apparently I dont have a sense of humor anyway.

Just add the new guy to the growing list of people Ive pissed off this week

:

No worries, Brother.
Can't wait to see you in May.

[Sam Leccia]

Truth is you'd never know.

There is zero regulation in the industry. which can be good, and bad.

it's bad in the case that any manufacturer in any country and say whatever they want on it's packaging, whether we are talking about age numbers or tobacco origin or type.

it happens more often then it doesn't. All you know is what the manufacturers want you to know. It's quite different from the liquor industry which has bi-laws and regulation. Age statements and regions are 100% legit in the liquor industry. ex. Scotch must be made in Scotland from 100% malted barley, Tequilla must be made in the tequila region of mexico from aquave etc...

The cigar industry is free game.


it's true.