How to Freeze and the Science behind it. Long Post

[wayner123]

Originally Posted by md4958

perhaps they were not frozen for a long enough period?

I used the exact method that SilverFox laid out the first time. And the second time they were frozen for 96 hours (4 days).

Originally Posted by wayner123

I have to disagree with you here. I personally have had eggs hatch after freezing twice.

I know you and I have had discussion before about this subject. After you showed me before the information you had, I accepted it and have had no problems. But a couple weeks ago, I had a run in again with a beetle. I know these sticks were frozen and the particular stick was frozen twice. Maybe I am the exception

Any thoughts on how this happened?

While I believe in the study I don't have any doubt that what you say is true.

Which leads me to believe that your beetles are somewhere else, perhaps in your humi? Maybe they are indigenous to your area? Do you frequent a B&M that might have them?

Knowing your penchant for research Wayne I am assuming you have thought of these things already.

I two have had a beetle outbreak twice and I freeze everything that comes in, I haven't had a problem sense I started this.. Only difference is I throw them directly into the freezer first..

[wayner123]

Originally Posted by SilverFox

While I believe in the study I don't have any doubt that what you say is true.

Which leads me to believe that your beetles are somewhere else, perhaps in your humi? Maybe they are indigenous to your area? Do you frequent a B&M that might have them?

Knowing your penchant for research Wayne I am assuming you have thought of these things already.

Yeah, that's the thing. I have thought of just about every aspect of how this could happen. The only thing I can figure is that the eggs were not killed, and my temps in FL get high. Most people on here have Vino's or some other type of temp control be it electric or because they live in areas not as hot as FL. So the freeze is a great tool, it just sucked that it did not work 100% for me

[Langod]

Here you go, so you don't have to go convert on another site:
-20C = -4F
-15C = 5F
-10C = 14F
-5C = 23F
0C = 32F
+5F = 41F
+10C = 50F


Great writeup SilverFox. Thanks. I think I might start freezing my sticks.

[md4958]

Originally Posted by Langod

Here you go, so you don't have to go convert on another site:
-20C = -4F
-15C = 5F
-10C = 14F
-5C = 23F
0C = 32F
+5F = 41F
+10C = 50F


Great writeup SilverFox. Thanks. I think I might start freezing my sticks.

you guys are really making it difficult and less fun for me to bust Shawn's balls... but thanks for the info!

Originally Posted by md4958

you guys are really making it difficult and less fun for me to bust Shawn's balls... but thanks for the info!

I was initially going to post in degrees Kelvin but I was worried some crazy inmate would put his cigars in the oven.

-20C = 253K

[Langod]

Originally Posted by SilverFox

I was initially going to post in degrees Kelvin but I was worried some crazy inmate would put his cigars in the oven.

-20C = 253K

LOL -- so what's the life expectancy of the beetle (or Inmate) at Absolute Zero?

[Cigarcop]

Originally Posted by md4958

you guys are really making it difficult and less fun for me to bust Shawn's balls... but thanks for the info!

Thats it Moe..............."No Soup For You"

[md4958]

Originally Posted by SilverFox

I was initially going to post in degrees Kelvin but I was worried some crazy inmate would put his cigars in the oven.

-20C = 253K

Originally Posted by Cigarcop

Thats it Moe..............."No Soup For You"

[14holestogie]

Good post, Shawn. I was always somewhat ambivalent to freezing, until I found one of my sticks (a tubo, no less) with a beetle hole. All stock then went through the freeze and all incoming continues to. I love all my BOTL/SOTL, but still, I don't know where your stuff's been. I do after I freeze them.

Originally Posted by 14holestogie

Good post, Shawn. I was always somewhat ambivalent to freezing, until I found one of my sticks (a tubo, no less) with a beetle hole. All stock then went through the freeze and all incoming continues to. I love all my BOTL/SOTL, but still, I don't know where your stuff's been. I do after I freeze them.

Are we going to have to start considering cigar condoms?

[ActionAndy]

That box of Padrons is a nightmare...

[marge796]

Got the first batch in the fridge and in 12 hours they go to the deep freeze for a nice long nap.

[Ferrari5180]

Very informative topic, and I thank you for this. My initial plan when I first got introduced to cigars, was to never freeze my cigars and hope for the best, until one day I opened my humidor and found a little portion of my stash affected. It was that day that I decided that all cigars bought, would go through a 5 day freezing process, and 2 day refrigeration process to ensure those diabolic creatures never show their faces again. Until now, I have had no problems, or change in taste of cigars. I have tried the same one's before freezing and after, and if anything the frozen one's taste better. (It might be Psychological ) Nevertheless, I enjoyed reading this thread, and I hope no one has to go through the troubles of dealing with beetles ever.

[MiamiE]

Shawn do you have any opinion on freezing cigars to kill mold and mold spores?

Originally Posted by MiamiE

Shawn do you have any opinion on freezing cigars to kill mold and mold spores?

Yup

From my research a normal household deep freeze will not go low enough to kill mold spores, it makes them dormant while they are frozen but does not kill.

Mold likes two things, warm and moist. The best way to keep away from mold on your sticks is too watch you temps and RH.

Oxygen-rich environments with humidity over 70% and temperatures above 60 degrees Fahrenheit are ideal for mold growth.

Keeping boxes closed (so no spores get in) and maintaining your RH less than 70% (my preference is 64 to 66% but YMMV) and temps sub 70F is the best way to avoid it.

regular inspection (especially of freshly received over-humidified sticks) can catch mold early and it can simply be wiped off with a soft rag, paper towel or soft bristle brush.

Originally Posted by Langod

Here you go, so you don't have to go convert on another site:
-20C = -4F
-15C = 5F
-10C = 14F
-5C = 23F
0C = 32F
+5F = 41F
+10C = 50F


Great writeup SilverFox. Thanks. I think I might start freezing my sticks.

In case this one gets stickied, here is the Fahrenheit conversion of the white paper on cigarette beetle mortality I posted in another thread on this topic.

--------
Keep in mind that most home freezers at their lowest setting only go down to about 17 degrees F. As long as the larval stage has not been acclimated to 60 degrees for several months before freezing occurs, 4 days in a home freezer should result in 100% mortality.

Cigarette Beetle Mortality White Paper Chart

Stage/Temperature (F)/100% Mortalitiy (hours)
Egg............-4...................1
..................5...................4
..................14.................12
..................23.................48
..................32................240
..................41................336

Larval .........-4.................1
..................5..................3
.................14.................12
.................23.................96
.................32.................288
.................41.................336

Acclimated larval (59 degrees for 1-3 months)
.................-4.................1
..................5..................6
.................14.................24
.................23.................504
.................32.................1176
.................41.................1680

Pupal.........-4..................1
.................5...................2
.................14.................4
.................23.................48
.................32.................288
.................41.................840

Adult..........-4.................1
.................5...................2
.................14.................2
.................23.................72
.................32.................288
.................41.................840
__________________

[skibumdc]

I don't freeze, but keep my vino and coolers at or below 60 in winter and 65 during summer.

[SmokinApe]

I was getting ready to smoke a stick that I was bombed when I noticed a small hole... Inside the hole were tunnels with 3 beetles...