LOST Notes

[TheBeard]

Originally Posted by dannysguitar

This is true, but Kate was not on the list and Jacob came to her. We'll see what happens with that...

Yes. The show showed us that Jacob touched people who were on the list. Kate shows us that the reverse implication is not true (i.e. Jacob only touches/influences those whose names are on the list).

[dannysguitar]

I've been checkin the thread all day for the notes! :-)

[kaisersozei]

Great episode this week! Among the things I noticed:

Jack doesn't have the tattooes he picked up in Thailand;
There were an awful lot of names around that compass device, including (I think) Kate's (#51).

Here's an interesting site I found:

http://www.olivierlacan.com/projects/lostintime/

[okieRob]

and I thought the guys at work had it bad...

[Mugen910]

I have the Notes..but no interzweb at work right now..so be patient.
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[Mugen910]

LOST season 6, episode #4 "Lighthouse"

1) This episode was the 108th hour of LOST.

2) Jack's flash-sideways:
"Mom, when did I have my appendix taken out?" Jack asks. And Mom answers, "Why, day 99 of course. You passed out after realizing that Faraday and Charlotte were lying about wanting to rescue you and your friends and..." No just kidding, that didn't happen. Margo Shephard tells Jack that it was removed when he was a kid.... But we know that it happened a different way on the island. Jack noticing his appendectomy scar hints that his subconscious in some way remembers or is aware of the other reality. When Jughead exploded in 1977, off-island Jack would have been around 8-9 years old (when his mother claims he had the surgery) ... maybe when Jughead went off that's when the flash-sideways reality started...
''Something Nice Back Home'' was the episode about Jack's ruptured appendix. Jack's then-love interest, Juliet, performed the surgery, and if you recall, Jack initially wanted to perform the surgery on himself, and even when Juliet talked him out of it, he still tried to coach her through the process by... watching her in a mirror. So many mirrors!
Jack's son David. This name has been used for other LOST characters - Hurley's dad, Libby's deceased husband.
David's mother, who wasn't revealed in the episode, could be Sarah, island-Jack's ex-wife. For one thing, we know that she also plays the piano. But what if it's Juliet? And why wasn't she home the night David had his audition... maybe she was going dutch on coffee with Sawyer?!?!
Jack lets himself into his (ex?) wife's house by using the key under the rabbit statue - an obvious reference to the White Rabbit of Alice in Wonderland, a frequent subject of Jack episodes. Jack even tells his son that he used to the read the story to him when he was a kid, just as he did in the island time line with young Aaron, after they left the island.
Dogen in the flash-sideways... "They are too young to have this kind of pressure," he says, referring to their kids. And then, "It's hard to watch and be unable to help." Free will theme, yet again!
At the piano auditions Jack found the right room by following a sign directing ''the candidates'' to the auditorium
The piece David was playing: ''Fantasia Impromptu in C-sharp minor'' by Chopin. Last season on LOST, another child prodigy played the same number for us... Daniel Faraday in ''The Variable.''
We're seeing a very distinct pattern in the flash-sideways time lines... the circle can be broken. People can change. Mistakes don't need to be repeated, over and over again. Some examples so far:

* Kate is a fugitive on the run, only looking out for herself. She glances into a garage mirror and... BANG! Kate heads back to bring pregnant Claire her stuff, help her through false labor, and befriend her during a major crisis... all at great risk to her personal safety. * John Locke .... still struggling with his handicap he calls Jack's phone number, looks into a mirror and... BANG! Locke suddenly hangs up the phone and embraces his condition, along with Helen's love. * Jack Shephard is a workaholic surgeon neglecting a son he only sees once a month. He looks in the mirror and... well, you get the picture.
This is some exciting news, actually. It may be proof that Jacob is right. People don't always have to fight, corrupt, and destroy. By stopping to take a good look at what they've become, people can actually reverse bad behavior and start making positive changes to their lives. Maybe broken people can be fixed after all.
3) Flash-sideways in season 6:

In an interview from a few years ago the producers remind us that redemption has been an overriding theme of the series since Day 1... "Kate blew up a house with a man inside, Sayid is a torturer, Sawyer has done all sorts of nasty things. That's the space the show lives in. Michael was one of the few characters who was a victim before he came to the Island. He was a good guy, and his wife took his son away from him. He didn't have anything to be redeemed for until now." Perhaps the flash-sideways are the redemption that the producers have been hinting at the entire time. The characters are "fixing" their mistakes.
4) Claire:
It appears that Claire didn't time travel with the LOSTIES during last season's time flashes... she has been there for the 3 years (like Richard and the Others).
Claire said the Others captured and tortured her (even showed the scar). Based on this, and what Dogen said about Claire being infected, it seems that she underwent a test like Sayid.
Wondering how Claire became friends with Flocke... after all, she said "That's not John, that's my friend!" She seemed to list him separately than her dad because she said she had been out in the jungle with her dad AND a friend.
5) Jack and Hurley's adventure:
Shannon's inhaler (didn't they accuse Sawyer of taking that?), the caves, the skeletons, the coffin... it was nice to have some Season 1 nostalgia.

6) The lighthouse:

The mirror... I think the only purpose of this in the episode was to show the LOSTIES that Jacob has been watching for a long time...we already knew that. But, now they finally do.
The dial # 108- Wallace. Who is that and is it important? The theory is that it's Desmond. Wallace is a Scottish name, the name of a Scottish hero in fact, and Desmond is Scottish.
"Paradox Lost" WRITTEN BY WALLACE is a book that extrapolates on the properties on magnetic/electromagnetic fields in relation to light, mass and time by a few physicists, but primarily by a scientist named Michael Faraday.
In the mirror, we see the church from Sawyer's parents funeral... ... the building where Jin and Sun got married... the house where Jack grew up.
See attached for Kate's name... #51 - Austen
I think it looks like Jack's name has been written over another name or is at least bolder than the other names (see attached).
Hurley has stepped into Richard's shoes... guiding others to follow Jacob's "orders."
7) At the temple:

In the hallway when Hurley was looking for a secret door, he instructed Dogen to return to the courtyard. Dogen replied in Japanese (roughly): "If you weren't a candidate I'd..."
8) Perhaps the cave that Flocke took Sawyer to isn't Jacob's? Jacob already has the lighthouse dial. Maybe the cave is where Flocke has been listing names trying to figure out who is on Jacob's candidate list and he crosses them out during his process of elimination...

9) Interesting that smoke and mirrors are used a lot in this show.... Probably means that we've been theorizing all wrong and the writers have totally duped us!

[Mugen910]

Fun for the next episode!

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by kaisersozei

Great episode this week! Among the things I noticed:

Jack doesn't have the tattooes he picked up in Thailand;
There were an awful lot of names around that compass device, including (I think) Kate's (#51).

Here's an interesting site I found:

http://www.olivierlacan.com/projects/lostintime/

That's a nice link, thanks! It reminded me of a few things that happened in the first seasons that I forgot about.

[mosesbotbol]

Can't get enough of Lost. There's just so much to it.

[ucla695]

Another great update Bao!! Certainly helps tie stuff together!!

[TheBeard]

The enhanced version of Lighthouse was great: They translated what Dogen said to Hurley. Basically, it was "You're lucky I have to protect you, otherwise I'd remove your head from your body and feed it to the boars."

But here's an interesting question about Dogen: Why was he in LA in the flash sideways when he was a business man in Japan? Obviously, there are large differences here in the flash sideways.

I keep meaning to sit down and write out a lot of my thoughts (some spurred by Bao's collected notes postings). Maybe one day I'll get around to that...

[TheBeard]

Originally Posted by Mugen910

3) Flash-sideways in season 6:

In an interview from a few years ago the producers remind us that redemption has been an overriding theme of the series since Day 1... "Kate blew up a house with a man inside, Sayid is a torturer, Sawyer has done all sorts of nasty things. That's the space the show lives in. Michael was one of the few characters who was a victim before he came to the Island. He was a good guy, and his wife took his son away from him. He didn't have anything to be redeemed for until now." Perhaps the flash-sideways are the redemption that the producers have been hinting at the entire time. The characters are "fixing" their mistakes.

I don't like this theory. Two large reasons that I do not like this theory are Sayid and Hurley. Whether in the past or in the present, on the island or off, in this story or in the flash sideways, Sayid just can't catch a break. Sayid's past never leaves him. Sayid is always the one you go to when there is going to be a direct physical confrontation. No matter what Sayid tries, his past will continue to haunt him.

Hurley, on the other hand, doesn't have the dark/troubled past that lead him to the island. Hurley is ... just being Hurley. He's got confidence in himself, which indicates that he's not considered (by himself or others) to be crazy or haunted or anything. He won the lottery, and what he's doing with the money in the flash sideways mirrors what he was doing with the money originally.

Hurly is just being Hurley. Sayid is just being Sayid. Jack is just being Jack. Kate is just being Kate. Whatever happened, happened. In the flash sideways, the Island never happened to these people. The Island sank after the Jughead was detonated, presumably, as evidenced by the underwater Dharmaville shots in the episode LA X. They're just living their lives.

[weak_link]

Originally Posted by TheBeard

But here's an interesting question about Dogen: Why was he in LA in the flash sideways when he was a business man in Japan? Obviously, there are large differences here in the flash sideways.

...

When they are at the audition he made a comment to Jack, something to the effect of 'it's hard to just stand by and watch, you feel so helpless.'

Is he there to observe Jack while trying to influence others to guide Jack in the direction 'they' want?

[dannysguitar]

:-(

[Mugen910]

LOST season 6, ep #5 "Sundown"

1) Nadia
Nadia's necklace this episode consisted of a circle within a circle. Maybe this represented the alternate time line being a subset of the larger story we've been watching for the past five years?
Her back story... she also lived in Iraq and Sayid was ordered to torture her for information. Instead, he orchestrated her escape and even killed a fellow soldier to secure her protection. As she ran away, Nadia showed her feelings for Sayid to be genuine by writing a message on a picture of herself in Sayid's dossier: ''You will find me in the next life, if not in this one.'' *gasp!*
The minivan in Nadia's driveway had the same license plate as Jack's jeep from last week (see attached photos)
Nadia no longer bears scars on her arms from scalding water and burns as a result of Sayid's torturing. That implies that in this sideways-world she was never tortured by Sayid.

2) Dogen
Dogen's son... yet another car crash (add it to the list: Kate's friend Tom, Matthew Abbadon, Claire and her mom, Kate and the farmer, Michael in NY, Locke while chasing his mom, Sarah Shepherd and Shannon's dad, the marshall dodging the black horse, Juliet's ex-husband hit by bus, Hurley crashes his hot rod, Emily Locke hit while pregnant with John, Nadia in crosswalk)
Jacob's offer is similar to Ben's promise back in season three... Made ironically enough under the pretense of "Jacob's word", Ben promised to cure Juliet's sister's cancer if she herself were to stay on the island. Stuck there, unable to leave, Juliet was miserable from that point forward... just as Dogen was miserable throughout his duty as temple leader.
Dogen explained to Sayid that the machine he zapped him with back in ''What Kate Does'' was designed to ''tell us how the scale is balanced. And yours... tipped the wrong way.'' Should we note that Dogen didn't say ''tipped toward evil?'' Should we be wondering if LOST wanted to invite debate what the ''right way'' might be?
Jacob gave Dogen a specific job on the island in order to save his son. In their contract, Dogen CANNOT kill any of the candidates. Dogen was about to kill Sayid, but the baseball crashed to the floor, reminding Dogen that if he killed Sayid, he would break his contract (and maybe his son's safety?).

3) Sayid's flash-sideways
As we've been seeing, the flash-sideways seems to be where our Losties can break their cycles of bad behavior and move forward with hope of a different outcome.
This is the second time we've seen Jin in a food pantry (In "Everyone Hates Hugo" Jin appeared in Hurley's dream set in the swan hatch food pantry). Actually, this is the second time we've seen Sayid in one too (In "Enter 77" Sayid was questioned inside a French restaurant's food pantry).
At dinner with his family Sayid claims that his job is taking him next to Toronto, and whenever someone on LOST mentions Canada, they're lying: Ethan claimed to be from Canada, Bonnie and Greta (from the Looking Glass station) claimed to be on assignment in Canada, Anthony Cooper claimed to be from Canada, Sawyer claimed to have a Canadian business partner as part of a con. Weird, huh?

4) Keamy
Omar (from Widmore's freighter mercenary team) picks Sayid up and forces him to meet with the money-lender who harmed his brother - none other than island Omar's mercenary team leader, Martin Christopher Keamy! (see attached photos of Omar)
Jin is working for Mr. Paik, and we know that Keamy has worked for Charles Widmore, and we know that the two (Paik and Widmore) are connected. Maybe Jin is being held prisoner due to a feud between the two? Is Keamy wearing the gold watch that Jin was supposed to deliver? Looked like it!

5) Jacob's bargain
Could this explain why Richard is ageless? Jacob made him an offer he couldn't refuse, much like Dogen's?
Is it possible that after Nadia was hit by the car, Jacob offered Sayid to save her life but Sayid would have to go to the island too, and that when Jack's father died, maybe he bargained for the same thing, but they just haven't shown us that yet? Maybe even Sawyer bargained for his parents? Just a thought!

6) Flocke's bargain
Flocke promised Claire that he'd get Aaron back for her in exchange for her faithful service. What if I told you could have your heart's desire? It's hard to hear Flocke's enticements and not wonder if what he's offering the castaways is a ticket to Sidewaysville... that if they do what he asks he'll get them to this flash-sideways where they can redeem and start over!
"Anything at all"... And what Sayid wants is Nadia (though I should mention it's conceivable that he was referring to Shannon). Sure, it's free will, but does free will really matter when one choice is so undesirable? Does Sayid really have a choice to do the things he does if he believes not doing them will harm the people he cares about?
Maybe the Others are more like the 815 survivors than we previously thought. They can't leave the island, even if they want to, they've long since given up on asking questions because people like Dogen, Richard and Ben don't give out answers, and all they want to do now is survive as best they can.

7) Kate
Recruiting Kate into his army may be one of Flocke's biggest mistakes, because even though Austen-51 may not be one of Jacob's favorite six numbers, Kate is definitely still a candidate.
It seems that Kate may be the one recruit who hasn't made a deal with Flocke, taken anything from him, or chosen to join him of her own free will. This could be dangerous for Flocke.

8) The infection
What if the "infection" isn't really an infection but is someone exercising their free will???

9) From last week's episode "Lighthouse":
Did the chains that Hurley pulled in the lighthouse sound like the smoke monster's "clanging/ clicking?"

10) Interesting theories/ comments I found:

"In fact, think about the wondrous things associated with Jacob. Richard's eternal youth. The resurrection hot spring. And, if you believe Ben from season 3, a cure for cancer. Jacob isn't ''good,'' per se - he's just capable of giving life. Put another way: Jacob is the god of beginnings. He is The Alpha. The Man in Black? Not evil - he's the god of endings. He is the Omega. The beginning and the end. Polar, warring opposites, but absolutely necessary for life to bloom (Alpha) and to have form (Omega). Both are necessary for anything to have meaning. Jacob unchecked leads to chaos; Man In Black unchecked leads to annihilation. Both need to exist in balance; both need to be equally weighted rocks on the scale."

"The narrative of Lost has always been one of opposed factions. Dharma, the Others. The fuselage, the tail section. The beach, the caves. Man of science, man of faith. Fate, free will. John's group, Jack's group. The Oceanic 6, those left behind. 1977, 2007. Good, evil. Light, dark. Black, white. Jacob, the Man in Black. But it's past sundown now, and wherever our characters have aligned could very well be where they stay for the rest of the story."

"This is supposed to be a show about redemption and choice. Maybe the off-island lives are the redemptive part of making the right choices and the reward for those choices. Perhaps what we are seeing is the Losties somehow having the opportunity to change their FATE and are rewarded with happier lives."

[weak_link]

We are running out of episodes and we still don't have jack and or s&*! for answers. I don't think the writers have an end point and they are still making this stuff up as they go along.

The good news is that Kate is still the love of my tv life.

[Jack Straw]

Getting geared up for tonight's episode, we have company over to watch with us here. I'm pumped!

[Mugen910]

Sadly I am not all that impressed with Kate. Got to talk to her while in Paris last year at the Louvre. She was def cute but I will take Juliet anyday!!!
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[Jack Straw]

[weak_link]

Originally Posted by Mugen910

Sadly I am not all that impressed with Kate. Got to talk to her while in Paris last year at the Louvre. She was def cute but I will take Juliet anyday!!!
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I never was much for blonds.