LOST Notes

[TheBeard]

Originally Posted by TheRiddick

Well, claimed could mean a number of things, another person taking over th body is one of them, IMO. Also, Sayid has the military training that may be required to confront the "new" Locke.

Do you mean to say that Jacob would want to take over (or inhabit, or whatever) Sayid's body so that he may gain Sayid's military training for his own use? I would think that someone like Jacob would already have all that and more.

If "claimed" (I need to figure out what Dogen said in Japanese) meant that Jacob was taking over Sayid's body, then two questions: 1) Why does Dogen say that a "darkness" is growing within Sayid? Jacob is supposed to be their savior/protector ("ille qui nos omnes servabit"). 2) Why did Dogen say that the same thing happened to Claire (unless Jack has another sister)? Jacob's only been dead for a few hours--a day at the most--and Jacob's nemesis is on the other side of the island hauling Richard through the jungle. If Claire had been "possessed" by either of these two entities, how did Dogen find out so quickly? Claire had 3 years or so on the island in which she could have been "claimed" and the Others learn of it. I don't think that Sayid is being set up to be Jacob's new body.

[TheBeard]

Originally Posted by MikeyC

I don't think finding Jacob was a problem for smokey. I think he was just trying to maintain the illusion that he was Locke by pretending not to know where Jacob was. He had to keep everyone convinced he was Locke so that no one would warn Jacob and so that Ben could be convinced to kill Jacob.

Hmm, I might have to go back and re-watch the last few episodes of last season. The more I think about it now, the more I'm remembering little glimpses that seemed to say that Ben knew exactly where they were going without Richard telling him. If this is true, then there's a lot more here going on than meets the eye. Then again, when is this not true?

[white_s2k]

Originally Posted by TheBeard

Hmm, I might have to go back and re-watch the last few episodes of last season. The more I think about it now, the more I'm remembering little glimpses that seemed to say that Ben knew exactly where they were going without Richard telling him. If this is true, then there's a lot more here going on than meets the eye. Then again, when is this not true?

Ben was all too "shocked" during the last few episodes of last season about all that was transpiring. I found that very weird, Ben is ALWAYS in control.. especially when we think he's not. Ben has basically disappeared these first two episodes of the season, and I get the feeling the writers want it that way. I think they have something big planned for Ben this season. What that is? Hell if I know

[weak_link]

Pretty clear by the level of detail in this thread I need to go back and review a few episodes to get back up to speed on this show. Great analysis here!

Since I'm not quite up to speed I'm going to stick with "Oh Kate, let me count the ways I love thee." Except for the murdering psycho female part.

[TheBeard]

Originally Posted by Mugen910

* Deciphering the Others' hierarchy has been a goal of Lost fans ever since Benry Gale claimed that bearded Tom was not the leader. That was four seasons ago. One would think we'd stop running into people claiming to be in charge of the Others by now.

I've been pondering this for a little while now. I think that the Others are split into two groups: Those in the Temple, and those outside the Temple. The Temple is a stronghold--Ben called it the last safe place on the island--it's a beacon, it's stationary. Dogen is the one (currently) charged with protecting the Temple. Dogen definitely holds sway over the Others who are within the Temple. Outside, we've seen many people proclaimed the leader of the Others (Ellie and Charles, Ben, the real Locke for a time). Is their command absolute? I don't think so. There might be interesting power struggles if one of them came to the Temple. As for Richard, he's always been an adviser and leader of the Others, but I don't think he has desires to lead the Others in any grand or overly-direct way. He's the Others' direct line to Jacob; think of him as a shaman or a mystic. He has great respect and great pull amongst the Others, but he only uses then when necessary.


Some of the other notes about the Others' manipulation of people and talk of free will and destiny is really giving me a lot to think about

[BigCat]

Interesting thing that was highlighted in a recap article I read yesterday was kate's name at the hospital, Joan Hart. The article I read suggested it was a reference to Melissa Joan Hart. There was no further explanation in the article, but some around my age may recall that Melissa Joan Hart starred in "Clarissa Explains it All". Clarissa = Claire?

[TheBeard]

Originally Posted by white_s2k

Ben was all too "shocked" during the last few episodes of last season about all that was transpiring. I found that very weird, Ben is ALWAYS in control.. especially when we think he's not. Ben has basically disappeared these first two episodes of the season, and I get the feeling the writers want it that way. I think they have something big planned for Ben this season. What that is? Hell if I know

Agreed: Ben was uncharacteristically out of control at the end of the last season. Then again, can we blame him? "Dead is dead," and yet there he is, standing right there after Ben choked the life out of him with his own two hands. Even Richard didn't know what to make of the situation. That would be enough to shake anybody, I'd say. Also it seems apparent that Ben had never seen an apparition of a dead person on the island, unlike the Losties who see Christian Shephard et. al. from time to time. So when the smoke monster showed Ben his dead daughter and that vision told Ben to follow Locke, I wouldn't really blame Ben's pants for being a little brown, nor would I be surprised at how much of a loss Ben finds himself.

I did like what I saw in Ben's eyes last episode (LAX, part 2) after the smoke monster killed Brahm et. al. Ben finally had enough pieces to start putting enough of it together to make a plan. We definitely haven't seen the last of this manipulator.

[TheBeard]

Originally Posted by weak_link

Since I'm not quite up to speed I'm going to stick with "Oh Kate, let me count the ways I love thee." Except for the murdering psycho female part.

The "murdering psycho" part caught my mind last night as I was trying to drift off to sleep. In the flash "sideways" scenes, in this parallel universe or time line or whatever it is, things are different. Things are the same, but there are little differences. The differences started when the stewardess handed Jack one bottle of booze, not two. I think we saw the gravity of the situation when Hurley said that he was the luckiest man in the world and that nothing bad ever happened to him. Double you, tea, eff, my friend.

We get to this episode, and Claire asks Kate what she did to be hunted by the authorities. Kate asks Claire if Claire would believe her if she said she was innocent. Kate never tells Claire what happened, but I have to wonder if it's the same as it was in the original storyline; is "What Kate Does" different from "What Kate Did?" (Sorry, I just had to play on the episode titles like that ). I'd like to think that it is.

[weak_link]

Just watched the last episode again. I have nothing to base this on but I think Aaron is going to be a key figure when this thing wraps up.

[TheBeard]

Originally Posted by weak_link

Just watched the last episode again. I have nothing to base this on but I think Aaron is going to be a key figure when this thing wraps up.

I think Aaron's significance lies more in how he ties Claire (and Jack) to Kate.

I'm still waiting to see why Mr. Friendly called Walt "special." Walt >> Aaron in my book.

[Skywalker]

I'm... Lost!!!

[Mugen910]

Originally Posted by Skywalker

I'm... Lost!!!

So much for explaining everything this season.

[Mugen910]

LOST season 6, ep #3 "The Substitue"


1) Richard: Previously calm, his fear shows that some serious stuff if going down. He also seemed confused by almost everything Flocke was telling him, most importantly the whole concept of ''candidates.'' Flocke: ''Jaocb didn't tell you? He never said why? I never would have done that to you! I never would have kept you in the dark! I would have treated you with respect!'' Interesting...

2) Smokey: A theory! Were there two smoke monsters at the beginning of tonight's episode? People have been theorizing for a while that there are 2 smoke monsters, but I never bought into it that much. This week we saw a smokey point of view, zooming through the jungle to Otherville to the reflection in the window outside of Sawyer's house ....
Then we saw more smoke monster perspective zooming through the jungle to the machete, which Flocke picks up ...
Then a little later, Flocke shows up at Sawyer's. Wouldn't he have manifested as Flocke upon his first run through the jungle when he stopped outside of Sawyer's place, and not later? I mean, why go to the house, go back to the jungle for the knife, then return to the house? That is, unless the first smoke monster was NOT Flocke but Jacob (who then manifested as the boy)!
**Perhaps there have been TWO smoke monsters since the series premiere. Watch the first night on the beach scene again....The first monster is coming toward them on the beach, knocking down trees. Another loud sound is made to the right, and the people in the scene turn 120 degrees to the right to see what it was. Then they hear a sound again to the left, turn back 120 degrees to the left, and the monster is now retreating. The black smoke monster coming after the corpses was run off by the white smoke monster.
***In Episode 4 of the first season, Locke looks up at a monster, but we are never shown it. He later comments, "I have looked into the eye of the island and it was beautiful." It was the white smoke monster of life, contrasted with the black smoke monster of death.
***The Black smoke monster can only assume the form of the dead. The white smoke monster can assume the form of the living. This explains why in Season One, a form of John Locke appears so many times so abruptly, but with no sound, surprising those nearby. It was the white smoke monster at that time. You may notice in those surprise moments, it is the confident, wise Locke offering counsel and advice to those in need.

3) Boy in jungle - Richard couldn't see him but Sawyer could? Was it a young Jacob? Only those whom Jacob touched can see him??? Flocke seemed disturbed by the fact that Sawyer could see the boy. The first time we see the boy his hands are bloody, the second time there is no blood on his hands.

4) For the third straight episode, the episode's lead character was given a conspicuous moment with a bathroom mirror.

5) Flash sideways:

* Surprised by Locke's glee in the sprinkler? That scene was similar to the first season, Locke sitting on the beach smiling peacefully as the rain came down on his face.
* Flocke's alarm clock sounded a lot like the "button" sequence alarm in the hatch.
* Flocke's flash-sideways self is more confident, has a sense of self, not afraid, not a loser, loved... so I'm guessing Sideways Anthony Cooper had nothing to do with crippling his son.
* Fun thought: We know from season 1 that Boone Carlyle's mother, Sabrina Carlyle, owned a massively successful wedding business, and that Boone served as the company's chief operating officer. Maybe the Carlyle family biz will play a role in solving Helen's catering crisis.
*
It was interesting the way he described the walkabout in the episode LA X. He called it ''an adventure'' about ''man versus nature.'' By contrast, when Island Locke described the Walkabout in the classic season 1 episode of the same name, he called it ''a journey of spiritual renewal, where one derives strength from the earth and becomes inseparable from it.'' Island Locke wanted to be feel connected to the world, to something bigger than himself; Sideways Locke wanted to feel his own strength, to feel whole again - to feel like a man. Sideways Locke isn't as spiritual as Island Locke.
*
The pictures in Locke's cubicle (see attached photo): There was a photo of Locke (with hair) with his father, Anthony Cooper; they looked to be hunting, as we saw them in a past episode. There was also a photo of Locke with Helen in a tropical setting, presumably Hawaii. The curious thing about both photos: Locke appeared to be standing. When and how did Locke become dependent on a wheelchair? Island Locke got thrown out of that eighth-floor window by his dad (Anthony Cooper) leaving him paralyzed. Sideways Locke's accident must have been a trauma that he experienced after meeting Helen.
*
Randy called Locke ''colonel.'' Remember that Island Locke played a military strategy board game Axis and Allies during his lunch break with a friend/colleague (not seen last night) and liked to be called ''colonel.''
*
Locke was fired and left with his box of belongings. Inside the box was a polar bear figurine.
*
Locke and Jack always butted heads via man of faith vs. man of science. It appears that now in the flash sideways Locke is a man of science. Literally. He accepted a job as substitute teacher. Subject: Biology. First lesson: the human reproductive system. It also looked like he was either teaching physical education or coaching basketball. There were some deeply embedded ironies here. Remember the season 4 episode ''Cabin Fever,'' in which Teenage Locke was encouraged by a teacher to cultivate his natural talent for science by attending a summer camp run by Mittelos Biosciences, the Others' company that recruited Juliet Burke to The Island. But Locke didn't want to hear that. He wanted to drive fast cars and play sports. When he was told his dreams were unrealistic, Young Locke bellowed, ''Don't tell me what I can't do!'' In the Sideways world, Locke is teaching science, teaching sports, and looking very much like a man who just found his niche. Of course, there's still ample time for his born again life to go horribly wrong. After all, he's now working with Benjamin Linus..
*
The woman interviewing Locke at the temp agency looked familiar. She was the "psychic" that Hurley's dad paid to tell Hurley he was no longer cursed. According to ABC press release, both appearances constitute the same character.

6) Was that a spider or a crab on Locke's dead body? Spider - like the Nikki/ Paolo paralyzing spider???

7) Revelations regarding Flocke: He is old. He told Sawyer that he was a reader - but that Steinbeck's Of Mice and Men, published in 1937, was after his time. He used to be a man.

8) The cave:

* Jacob's end game is to get a replacement island protector. Flocke's end game is to get off the island, to go home. He's recruiting people to assist him. It appears he had to eliminate Jacob as a necessary step.
* When Sawyer asked why the Island would need protection, Locke snapped: ''From nothing, James. That's the joke. There's nothing to protect it from. It's just a damn island!'' yeah right! The island boasts: (1) The Temple's magic healing spring. (2) Frozen donkey wheel time travel magic. (3) Smokey. Bottom line: The Island is totally special.
* The Fake Locke/Sawyer story line - in which the Monster led Sawyer to a remote cave which he promised would contain answers echoed previous episodes. I'll cite just two in particular. (1) ''The Brig,'' in which the real John Locke led Sawyer across the Island to the Black Rock for a bloody date with Anthony Cooper; and (2) ''Every Man For Himself,'' in which Ben snowed Sawyer into thinking he'd implanted a killer pacemaker in his chest, then hiked him up a hill to reveal he was no longer stuck on the Island, but actually trapped on another.
* I thought Jack was never on any list?? Remember when Ben brought Jack to the small island to perform his spinal surgery...someone confronted Ben about the fact that Jack wasn't on the list....so why is his name written in the cave?
* Do you think Alex might have been a candidate, which would be why it was "breaking the rules" for Keamey to kill her? No killing candidates?
* Is Sawyer conning Flocke???

9) Cave names: See the attachment for an example of how the smart people on the internet created this list.
Kate is noticeably absent from not just the numbers, but the wall. Names on the wall go back to at least the 1950's as evidenced by Cunningham and Jones, two soldiers on the island in 1954

Some crossed out names:
4 - Locke (John)
8 - Reyes (Hurley)
10 - Mattingley - Other
15 - Ford (James)
16 - Jarrah (Sayid)
23 - Shephard (Jack)... Psalm 23: The Lord is my shepherd
31 - Rutherford (Shannon)
42 - Kwon (Jin or Sun)
56 - Burke - (Juliet)
64 - Goodspeed (Ethan, Horace, Olivia, or Amy)
70 - Faraday (Daniel)
73 - Costa - ?
90 - Troupe - ?
115 - Bargas - ?
117 - Linus (Ben, Roger)
119 - Almeida - Maybe Paulo's last name?
142 - Lewis (Charlotte)
171 - Straume (Miles)
195 - Pace (Charlie)
222 - O'Toole - U.S. Military
233 - Jones - U.S. Military
291 - Domingo - U.S. Military
313 - Littleton (Claire or Aaron)
317 - Cunningham - U.S. Military
337 - Martin (Karl) - Other
346 - Grant - U.S. Military

Partial writings:
20 - Rous (Possibly Rousseau)
25 - ___
30 - ___
33 - Martin?
49 - Cha (Possibly Chang)
62 - ___
251 - ___
260 - ___
272 - ___
285 - Jen (Possibly Jenkins)
__ - Reynolds
__ - Sullivan (the guy from season 1 who had a rash)
__ - Lacombe (from the French science team)
175 - Costa

*
#42, only said Kwon. Flocke said he didn't know if it was Jin or Sun...... maybe it's neither. Jin and Sun's daughter, Ji Yeon, is one of a few children conceived on the island to live. Maybe she is #42... After all, Jacob touched both Jin and Sun at their wedding because at that point in time, Ji Yeon was in both of them.

[dannysguitar]

Originally Posted by dannysguitar

I thought Jack was never on any list?? Remember when Ben brought Jack to the small island to perform his spinal surgery...someone confronted Ben about the fact that Jack wasn't on the list....so why is his name written in the cave?

Maybe Shepard refers to Christian...? What do you think?

[weak_link]

When was the list created? Is it possible Jack made the list after his arrival and proved himself to be a worthy candidate is is that just not the way things work around there?

[TheBeard]

Originally Posted by dannysguitar

Maybe Shepard refers to Christian...? What do you think?

Unlikely. The show was uncharacteristically heavy-handed in showing us that the names corresponded to persons whom Jacob had personally visited and touched (specifically, the scenes from The Incident episode). Jacob was never shown to have touched Christian Shephard.

Oh numbers, you just love to prey upon us

[dannysguitar]

Originally Posted by TheBeard

Unlikely. The show was uncharacteristically heavy-handed in showing us that the names corresponded to persons whom Jacob had personally visited and touched (specifically, the scenes from The Incident episode). Jacob was never shown to have touched Christian Shephard.

Oh numbers, you just love to prey upon us

This is true, but Kate was not on the list and Jacob came to her. We'll see what happens with that...

[ucla695]

Good stuff guys.

[JE3146]

My head hurts....

[cort]

Get a life guys