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#1 |
Non-believer
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Does anyone think that Jacob's order to Hurley to take Sayid to the Temple is in some way leading to Jacob being "reincarnated" in Sayid's body? It happened to Locke somehow with Jacob's nemesis, and I am guessing that Jacob will use same trick now to get back at the Man in Black.
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#2 | |
Adjusting to the Life
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I don't think that Jacob has set up Sayid to be his new body; I had entertained that thought prior to this most recent episode, but what Dogen said about Sayid being "claimed" makes me think otherwise. I do, however, think that Sayid is being set up to be some sort of savior for the island, and he may well end up being an envoy of Jacob's return. |
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#3 | |
Non-believer
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#4 | |
Adjusting to the Life
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If "claimed" (I need to figure out what Dogen said in Japanese) meant that Jacob was taking over Sayid's body, then two questions: 1) Why does Dogen say that a "darkness" is growing within Sayid? Jacob is supposed to be their savior/protector ("ille qui nos omnes servabit"). 2) Why did Dogen say that the same thing happened to Claire (unless Jack has another sister)? Jacob's only been dead for a few hours--a day at the most--and Jacob's nemesis is on the other side of the island hauling Richard through the jungle. If Claire had been "possessed" by either of these two entities, how did Dogen find out so quickly? Claire had 3 years or so on the island in which she could have been "claimed" and the Others learn of it. I don't think that Sayid is being set up to be Jacob's new body. |
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#5 |
I <3 Huy
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Missed this from last week: In the airport Sun is called Ms. Paik, rather than Mrs. Kwan, by the security guards and Jin doesn't appear to have a wedding band on.
****** Final Season Episode 2 1. Sayid's torture: * What if the pill was just a test for Jack to see if he would do the right thing for his friends and not put Sayid in harms way again? After all, Dogen said "here is your chance to redeem yourself." (I don't actually believe this as I think Dogen is just playing on Jack's guilt, that his actions continue to get people hurt, to get Sayid to take the pill, but thought it was an interesting theory) * The ash test? To see if Smokey has taken over Sayid? What about the electricity (or was it sonic like the Otherville fence?) and hot poker? * Think about how Sayid cried/ moaned/ pleaded while he was tortured. The old torturer-Sayid would have maintained composure (like when Rousseau tortured him). This is not our beloved Sayid. * Sayid's only frame of reference for his experience with Dogen was one he knew from his past: torture. He told Dogen that he had no information to share, nothing that he was hiding. Was that the ''tell'' Dogen was looking for? Remember last season, when Richard indicated that one of the side effects of the healing water at the Temple was forgetfulness. Maybe Sayid remembers too much; maybe if the spring had worked, he wouldn't have processed his experience through the lens of his old, damned life. Regardless: Sayid said "failed." * Sawyer's comment about Sayid being allowed a second chance, insinuating that Juliet wasn't allowed one but would have been more deserving of it... maybe the Island was done with Juliet, she reconciled her past and was allowed to move on, but maybe Sayid has more to do, like Michael. Michael couldn't die until the island was done with him. 2. The flash-sideways: * Some events seem fated to happen whether on the island or in this alternate reality:
* The mother who was supposed to adopt Aaron (Lindsey Baskum) was similar to pre-island Claire. Same back story! (Or at least the Island-Claire back story.) FLASHBACK to season 1 episode ''Raised By Another.'' Claire got pregnant and was initially wary of being a young mom, but Boyfriend Thomas was all ''We can do this!'', which got Claire all psyched to have the baby. Then Boyfriend Thomas got cold feet and dumped her, and Claire decided to give the baby up for adoption. * Kate gave the alias Joan Hart when checking Claire in to the hospital. FLASHBACK to season 1 episode ''Born To Run,'' in which Kate - sporting dyed blonde hair - used the Joan Hart alias to check into a motel, then sneak into a hospital to visit her dying mother. This was also the episode where Kate and her childhood friend dug up the time capsule (inside: toy airplane, baseball), as well as the episode where Kate and Sun conspired to poison Jin so that he wouldn't leave the Island on the raft. We saw all those beats mirrored and referenced in last night's episode (hospital visit, poisoning, baseball, Sawyer's time capsule/ box). * The stuffed whale in Claire's luggage. In the original island time line... it was Kate who gave Aaron that killer whale in season 4 episode ''Something Nice Back Home." 3. Infected/ darkness: * If Claire (Jack's half-sister) is "infected" with the "darkness" and now looks Rousseau-ish, does this mean it's possible it was Rousseau who was infected, and not her team? * Remember Season 4 finale when the mercenaries blew up some Dharmaville houses, Claire luckily survives such an explosion and a few minutes later meets Miles. Claire says something like "Wow, we're lucky to be alive!" and Miles answers something like: "I wouldn't be too sure." Maybe Claire was already dead and taken over by the sickness (as Miles seemed to notice there something was different with her or at the very least he looked at her suspiciously). * When Ben and the Others used a poison gas attack on the Dharma compound during The Purge, perhaps they were actually preventing the "darkness" from spreading to the rest of the island, as the "darkness" had already claimed the Dharma encampment??? o Also, Daniel and Charlotte prevented a large amount of poison gas from being released by Ben at The Tempest. Perhaps Ben had anticipated that the "darkness" had already spread to some of the inhabitants? * How did Sayid catch the sickness? We've known his whereabouts almost the entire time he's been back on the island, and he never encountered the Smoke Monster. I guess going into the Spring/ healing pool could have something to do with it (on account of the water being murky), but Dogen and a couple Others went in there, too, and I'm assuming they're not sick.
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I'm not antisocial, I just think people are stupid. |
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#6 |
I <3 Huy
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4. The Others:
* The Other who accompanied Kate is Aldo, guard from Room 23 (where Karl was brainwashed). Apparently he's been holding a grudge against Kate for knocking him unconscious three years ago. * Deciphering the Others' hierarchy has been a goal of Lost fans ever since Benry Gale claimed that bearded Tom was not the leader. That was four seasons ago. One would think we'd stop running into people claiming to be in charge of the Others by now. Tom, Ms. Klugh and Isabel were possibilities a long time ago. Stronger contenders included Charles Widmore, Eloise Hawking, Benjamin Linus and John Locke, who have all claimed to be the leader. And when finally it's looking like the guy with the real authority has been Richard Alpert (on Jacob's behalf) all along, Dogen appears. We need to see an Other org chart. * Dogen's techniques were reminiscent of the scene at the Hydra Station (season 3), when Ben and Juliet tried to break Jack down and ''change his perspective'' in order to get him to save Ben's life by removing that tumor on his spine. The Others would like you to think they believe in free will (see: Lennon praising Jack this week for voluntarily coming to them), but it's a rigged game; they have no problem with telling half-truths, outright lies, or just plain nothing to get you to do what they want you to do. Which is interesting. The Others manipulate our Losties but make them think everything is their own idea. How can Jacob profess the benefits of free will if he and his group of Others have been guiding/ nudging/ guilting the Losties into doing things all along!? Technically, that's not free will. * Notice how Aldo won't let Justin tell Jin about the Ajira flight. The Others seem to be prohibited from sharing info with the Losties because doing so might tamper with them in some way - as if it's absolutely necessary that the castaways either discover stuff on their own, or are denied info that they don't need to know, or don't need to know yet. * Justin's cryptic last words to Aldo regarding Jin also seemed important: "He might be one of them." We already know Jin is on Jacob's list, and both Aldo and Justin should know it too. So what else does "one of them" mean? Is there an ultimate purpose these people need to stay alive in order to accomplish? Seems like it. Might be nice if someone shared that with them, though. * Think back to season two, where Ms. Klugh was asking Michael to lure four of his friends to The Others' encampment. "Why don't you just get them yourselves?" Michael had asked her, to which Klugh replied "It doesn't work that way, Michael". The Others could've taken these people by force any time that they wanted, but for some reason they didn't. They even had three out of four of them at gunpoint, on the day Tom/ Mr. Friendly drew a line in the sand. Yet somehow, for some reason, they needed these people to come on their own. Just like Jack did this week. * Now think back to season three, where Ben was trying to convince Jack to do his spinal surgery. "You want me to save your life?" Jack had asked him incredulously. "No", Ben responded. "I want you to want to save my life." * A good theory! "Not only do the temple-dwellers need Sayid to effectively kill himself, but they need Jack to act as the accomplice. You could argue that Dogen used Jack because Sayid inherently trusts him, but that's not the sole reason. Jack, and Jack alone, must be the person who gets Sayid to take the poison. And the reason for this is simple: Jack must clean up his own mess. Go back to last episode. Right before they dipped Sayid in the spring, Dogen says "Who did this to him?" Jack steps up and claims responsibility. "My fault. I didn't shoot him, but it's my fault." This seemed pretty out of place back then, but Dogen puts the same question to Jack right now. He asks again how Sayid got shot, and Jack tells him what happened. "So, he was helping you?", Dogen asks, very specifically. "Yes", Jack says again. And from here, two things become brutally obvious. First, Jack has to be the one to give Sayid the pill. It can't be Hurley, it can't be Miles... because Jack was the person directly responsible, he must also be the one to clean up his own mess. This very line is used more than once in past seasons, and we've already seen the theory in action: During season three, Ben tried to make Locke kill Anthony Cooper. He even made it seem as if it were some strange test he had to pass. The truth of the matter however, is that Ben couldn't kill Cooper for a much different reason: Ben wasn't the person who brought the man from Tallahassee to the island in the first place. He thought it was Locke, and therefore needed Locke to commit the murder. But Ben turned out to be wrong here, because it was actually Sawyer who had brought Cooper to the island - a manifestation of his intense desire to find the man responsible for the death of his parents. Even Locke realized this, when he somehow couldn't even bring himself to kill the man who had caused his paralysis. Instead, Locke lured Sawyer to the Black Rock, where he strangled Cooper." 5. Otherville: * Sawyer in Otherville continuing to mourn Juliet. He even digs an engagement ring out the floorboards of his old house and, like Desmond in "Flashes Before Your Eyes", he chucks it into the ocean. I loved Kate's disappointment. It's like she always thought that Juliet was Sawyer's consolation prize for losing Kate, but Sawyer really loved Juilet and has no romantic feelings for Kate at all at this point. Hahahahaha! She followed him thinking they were going to be a team but he seems to want nothing to do with her. Again, hahahahahaha! 6. Although, for me it was a boring-ish episode one blogger had an interesting perspective: It was an episode about people trying to ditch burdensome, painful baggage (like Kate and her shackles, heartbroken Sawyer and his ring) - or learning to embrace it (like Claire and her baby; like Jack and his failures/ accountability). 7. A fun theory from the web: "Opening scene of last year's finale: MIB: It always ends the same. They come, they fight, they kill, they destroy. It always ends the same. Jacob: Yes but it only ends once. Anything before that is progress. Here's the thought: The alternate reality is just one itteration of many alts and Jacob and Smokey can experience all of them. Jacob has the ability to leave the island and choose which alt universe or dimension he enters. Each one ends the same. No matter what he does to try to bring people to the island to save humanity it always ends up failing. But every time there is progress. THE ALT OF SEASON SIX IS THE FINAL PROGRESSION WHERIN THEY SUCCEED IN SAVING HUMANITY. This also means that the version in which we are currently on island is one of the failures so all of those people in that reality are doomed to fail and humanity will be destroyed. But this brings a whole new meaning to "it worked". In each dimension the incident is what creates the alt reality. The entire first five seasons are us seeing the itteration before the final itteration. The one that finally made success possible. "IT WORKED" MEANS THEY ALL FINALLY GOT THEIR DESTINY RIGHT. Rewatching LA X and when Rose says to Jack "It's ok. You can let go now." You could take that as, "You can give in to youre destiny. We got it right this time." Jacob believed they were making progress. Meaning there was eventually something he was trying to get right. He did, but he didn't understand what was happening until after he died. He had to die and the island had to not exist at all during these people's lifetimes for them to get their destiny right. The final solution to Jacob's ultimate goal was to take himself and the island out of play."
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I'm not antisocial, I just think people are stupid. |
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#7 | |
Adjusting to the Life
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Some of the other notes about the Others' manipulation of people and talk of free will and destiny is really giving me a lot to think about ![]() |
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#8 |
My back is now unwatched.
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Interesting thing that was highlighted in a recap article I read yesterday was kate's name at the hospital, Joan Hart. The article I read suggested it was a reference to Melissa Joan Hart. There was no further explanation in the article, but some around my age may recall that Melissa Joan Hart starred in "Clarissa Explains it All". Clarissa = Claire?
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"Now, I don't approve of dissipation, and I don't indulge in it either; but I haven't a particle of confidence in a man who has no redeeming petty vices." Mark Twain |
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#9 |
The Stranger
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Pretty clear by the level of detail in this thread I need to go back and review a few episodes to get back up to speed on this show. Great analysis here!
Since I'm not quite up to speed I'm going to stick with "Oh Kate, let me count the ways I love thee." Except for the murdering psycho female part. |
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#10 | |
Adjusting to the Life
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We get to this episode, and Claire asks Kate what she did to be hunted by the authorities. Kate asks Claire if Claire would believe her if she said she was innocent. Kate never tells Claire what happened, but I have to wonder if it's the same as it was in the original storyline; is "What Kate Does" different from "What Kate Did?" (Sorry, I just had to play on the episode titles like that ![]() |
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#12 | |
Adjusting to the Life
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I'm still waiting to see why Mr. Friendly called Walt "special." Walt >> Aaron in my book. ![]() |
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#14 |
I <3 Huy
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__________________
I'm not antisocial, I just think people are stupid. |
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#15 |
I <3 Huy
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LOST season 6, ep #3 "The Substitue"
1) Richard: Previously calm, his fear shows that some serious stuff if going down. He also seemed confused by almost everything Flocke was telling him, most importantly the whole concept of ''candidates.'' Flocke: ''Jaocb didn't tell you? He never said why? I never would have done that to you! I never would have kept you in the dark! I would have treated you with respect!'' Interesting... 2) Smokey: A theory! Were there two smoke monsters at the beginning of tonight's episode? People have been theorizing for a while that there are 2 smoke monsters, but I never bought into it that much. This week we saw a smokey point of view, zooming through the jungle to Otherville to the reflection in the window outside of Sawyer's house .... Then we saw more smoke monster perspective zooming through the jungle to the machete, which Flocke picks up ... Then a little later, Flocke shows up at Sawyer's. Wouldn't he have manifested as Flocke upon his first run through the jungle when he stopped outside of Sawyer's place, and not later? I mean, why go to the house, go back to the jungle for the knife, then return to the house? That is, unless the first smoke monster was NOT Flocke but Jacob (who then manifested as the boy)! **Perhaps there have been TWO smoke monsters since the series premiere. Watch the first night on the beach scene again....The first monster is coming toward them on the beach, knocking down trees. Another loud sound is made to the right, and the people in the scene turn 120 degrees to the right to see what it was. Then they hear a sound again to the left, turn back 120 degrees to the left, and the monster is now retreating. The black smoke monster coming after the corpses was run off by the white smoke monster. ***In Episode 4 of the first season, Locke looks up at a monster, but we are never shown it. He later comments, "I have looked into the eye of the island and it was beautiful." It was the white smoke monster of life, contrasted with the black smoke monster of death. ***The Black smoke monster can only assume the form of the dead. The white smoke monster can assume the form of the living. This explains why in Season One, a form of John Locke appears so many times so abruptly, but with no sound, surprising those nearby. It was the white smoke monster at that time. You may notice in those surprise moments, it is the confident, wise Locke offering counsel and advice to those in need. 3) Boy in jungle - Richard couldn't see him but Sawyer could? Was it a young Jacob? Only those whom Jacob touched can see him??? Flocke seemed disturbed by the fact that Sawyer could see the boy. The first time we see the boy his hands are bloody, the second time there is no blood on his hands. 4) For the third straight episode, the episode's lead character was given a conspicuous moment with a bathroom mirror. 5) Flash sideways: * Surprised by Locke's glee in the sprinkler? That scene was similar to the first season, Locke sitting on the beach smiling peacefully as the rain came down on his face. * Flocke's alarm clock sounded a lot like the "button" sequence alarm in the hatch. * Flocke's flash-sideways self is more confident, has a sense of self, not afraid, not a loser, loved... so I'm guessing Sideways Anthony Cooper had nothing to do with crippling his son. * Fun thought: We know from season 1 that Boone Carlyle's mother, Sabrina Carlyle, owned a massively successful wedding business, and that Boone served as the company's chief operating officer. Maybe the Carlyle family biz will play a role in solving Helen's catering crisis. * It was interesting the way he described the walkabout in the episode LA X. He called it ''an adventure'' about ''man versus nature.'' By contrast, when Island Locke described the Walkabout in the classic season 1 episode of the same name, he called it ''a journey of spiritual renewal, where one derives strength from the earth and becomes inseparable from it.'' Island Locke wanted to be feel connected to the world, to something bigger than himself; Sideways Locke wanted to feel his own strength, to feel whole again - to feel like a man. Sideways Locke isn't as spiritual as Island Locke. * The pictures in Locke's cubicle (see attached photo): There was a photo of Locke (with hair) with his father, Anthony Cooper; they looked to be hunting, as we saw them in a past episode. There was also a photo of Locke with Helen in a tropical setting, presumably Hawaii. The curious thing about both photos: Locke appeared to be standing. When and how did Locke become dependent on a wheelchair? Island Locke got thrown out of that eighth-floor window by his dad (Anthony Cooper) leaving him paralyzed. Sideways Locke's accident must have been a trauma that he experienced after meeting Helen. * Randy called Locke ''colonel.'' Remember that Island Locke played a military strategy board game Axis and Allies during his lunch break with a friend/colleague (not seen last night) and liked to be called ''colonel.'' * Locke was fired and left with his box of belongings. Inside the box was a polar bear figurine. * Locke and Jack always butted heads via man of faith vs. man of science. It appears that now in the flash sideways Locke is a man of science. Literally. He accepted a job as substitute teacher. Subject: Biology. First lesson: the human reproductive system. It also looked like he was either teaching physical education or coaching basketball. There were some deeply embedded ironies here. Remember the season 4 episode ''Cabin Fever,'' in which Teenage Locke was encouraged by a teacher to cultivate his natural talent for science by attending a summer camp run by Mittelos Biosciences, the Others' company that recruited Juliet Burke to The Island. But Locke didn't want to hear that. He wanted to drive fast cars and play sports. When he was told his dreams were unrealistic, Young Locke bellowed, ''Don't tell me what I can't do!'' In the Sideways world, Locke is teaching science, teaching sports, and looking very much like a man who just found his niche. Of course, there's still ample time for his born again life to go horribly wrong. After all, he's now working with Benjamin Linus.. * The woman interviewing Locke at the temp agency looked familiar. She was the "psychic" that Hurley's dad paid to tell Hurley he was no longer cursed. According to ABC press release, both appearances constitute the same character. 6) Was that a spider or a crab on Locke's dead body? Spider - like the Nikki/ Paolo paralyzing spider??? 7) Revelations regarding Flocke: He is old. He told Sawyer that he was a reader - but that Steinbeck's Of Mice and Men, published in 1937, was after his time. He used to be a man. 8) The cave: * Jacob's end game is to get a replacement island protector. Flocke's end game is to get off the island, to go home. He's recruiting people to assist him. It appears he had to eliminate Jacob as a necessary step. * When Sawyer asked why the Island would need protection, Locke snapped: ''From nothing, James. That's the joke. There's nothing to protect it from. It's just a damn island!'' yeah right! The island boasts: (1) The Temple's magic healing spring. (2) Frozen donkey wheel time travel magic. (3) Smokey. Bottom line: The Island is totally special. * The Fake Locke/Sawyer story line - in which the Monster led Sawyer to a remote cave which he promised would contain answers echoed previous episodes. I'll cite just two in particular. (1) ''The Brig,'' in which the real John Locke led Sawyer across the Island to the Black Rock for a bloody date with Anthony Cooper; and (2) ''Every Man For Himself,'' in which Ben snowed Sawyer into thinking he'd implanted a killer pacemaker in his chest, then hiked him up a hill to reveal he was no longer stuck on the Island, but actually trapped on another. * I thought Jack was never on any list?? Remember when Ben brought Jack to the small island to perform his spinal surgery...someone confronted Ben about the fact that Jack wasn't on the list....so why is his name written in the cave? * Do you think Alex might have been a candidate, which would be why it was "breaking the rules" for Keamey to kill her? No killing candidates? * Is Sawyer conning Flocke??? 9) Cave names: See the attachment for an example of how the smart people on the internet created this list. Kate is noticeably absent from not just the numbers, but the wall. Names on the wall go back to at least the 1950's as evidenced by Cunningham and Jones, two soldiers on the island in 1954 Some crossed out names: 4 - Locke (John) 8 - Reyes (Hurley) 10 - Mattingley - Other 15 - Ford (James) 16 - Jarrah (Sayid) 23 - Shephard (Jack)... Psalm 23: The Lord is my shepherd 31 - Rutherford (Shannon) 42 - Kwon (Jin or Sun) 56 - Burke - (Juliet) 64 - Goodspeed (Ethan, Horace, Olivia, or Amy) 70 - Faraday (Daniel) 73 - Costa - ? 90 - Troupe - ? 115 - Bargas - ? 117 - Linus (Ben, Roger) 119 - Almeida - Maybe Paulo's last name? 142 - Lewis (Charlotte) 171 - Straume (Miles) 195 - Pace (Charlie) 222 - O'Toole - U.S. Military 233 - Jones - U.S. Military 291 - Domingo - U.S. Military 313 - Littleton (Claire or Aaron) 317 - Cunningham - U.S. Military 337 - Martin (Karl) - Other 346 - Grant - U.S. Military Partial writings: 20 - Rous (Possibly Rousseau) 25 - ___ 30 - ___ 33 - Martin? 49 - Cha (Possibly Chang) 62 - ___ 251 - ___ 260 - ___ 272 - ___ 285 - Jen (Possibly Jenkins) __ - Reynolds __ - Sullivan (the guy from season 1 who had a rash) __ - Lacombe (from the French science team) 175 - Costa * #42, only said Kwon. Flocke said he didn't know if it was Jin or Sun...... maybe it's neither. Jin and Sun's daughter, Ji Yeon, is one of a few children conceived on the island to live. Maybe she is #42... After all, Jacob touched both Jin and Sun at their wedding because at that point in time, Ji Yeon was in both of them. ![]()
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I'm not antisocial, I just think people are stupid. |
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#16 |
The Stranger
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When was the list created? Is it possible Jack made the list after his arrival and proved himself to be a worthy candidate is is that just not the way things work around there?
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#20 |
Feeling at Home
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I've been checkin the thread all day for the notes! :-)
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