The Wine Thread

I associate Paso Robles with Zinfandel and Petit Sirah, so when I see a new one I am not afraid to try it. Our Costco has a 2008 Zin from a Paso winery called Opolo named Summit Creek Zin. It is rich, fruity, velvety, and high in alcohol (16.4%) though you can't tell it from the taste. I expected it to be porty but it's not. A very good expression of a Paso Robles Zin for less than $20. I may go back and get a case.

[maverickdrinker]

CdP that you might want to consider picking up as well

Pegau
Beaucastel
vieux donjon
Clos st jean
Pasquie

[TheRiddick]

Originally Posted by maverickdrinker

CdP that you might want to consider picking up as well

Pegau
Beaucastel

You must really love brett... These two are notorious for it.

[mosesbotbol]

Originally Posted by TheRiddick

You must really love brett... These two are notorious for it.

A little brett goes a long way. I thought the most recent vintages aren't as "bretty"?

[TheRiddick]

Originally Posted by mosesbotbol

A little brett goes a long way. I thought the most recent vintages aren't as "bretty"?

Yeah, this is Parker's most "popular" misconception that, unfortunately, has been bought by consumers. How does one "control" how much brett in in wine?

Funny, as I was having an online "discussion" with Parker on the subject and he pulled a bottle of Pegau out of his cellar and then immediately posted online that his bottle was "whistle clean", Laurence chimed in and said that ALL Pegaus have brett. You should visit the cellar/winery, its disgusting (mold on walls, barrels, etc.) Brett, from a technical standpoint, is the the single worst problem a wine can have.

[mosesbotbol]

Originally Posted by TheRiddick

You should visit the cellar/winery, its disgusting (mold on walls, barrels, etc.) Brett, from a technical standpoint, is the the single worst problem a wine can have.

It's bad due to hygiene of the wine making facility. I can see if you are running a sterile and top notch facility and "add" brett like some beer makers due, but this is not true in Rhone wines. I don't mind a little brett in CdP as it is considered "terrior" to some extent, but brett can get out of control and dominate a wine in no time.

I doubt anyone would add brett to wine.

As for Parker, he knows when it's "pop and pour" the Brett may not come out, but it will sitting in the decanter for any real amount of time.

[landhoney]

Originally Posted by TheRiddick

How does one "control" how much brett in in wine?

K-met and sterile filtering then blending? Seriously though I have no idea, guess it doesn't work like that in most cases.

Its interesting to me as a former wine researcher for the University of Maryland we hated Brett, but actually kept carboys of flawed wine for educational purposes, we would have flawed wines to clearly show what a 'flaw' tasted like. Whatever Brett strain(s) we had up there had the classic 'mousy' character, funny as I don't recall getting that flavor/character in any beer.

Now as a beer brewer who loves wild/sour ales I am adding Brettanomyces intentionally to my beers.

[maverickdrinker]

some purchases this weekend

(1) 1999 bollinger grande annee
(4) NV Tarlant Brut Rose Zero
(1) Nino Franco Prosecco
(1) 2002 Veuve Cliquot

Originally Posted by maverickdrinker

some purchases this weekend

(1) 1999 bollinger grande annee
(4) NV Tarlant Brut Rose Zero
(1) Nino Franco Prosecco
(1) 2002 Veuve Cliquot

Nice haul.

What are some good years for Bollinger?

[maverickdrinker]

had some friends over last night and popped a few corks

from what I can remember from last night.

nino franco prosecco
tarlant brut rose zero
iniskillin sparkling icewine
some Ontario white wine that I liked but can't remember the name
2007 outpost howell mountain cab
2003 Neal cab
2004 arcadian pinot (can't remember the vineyard)
2001 Dunn Howell Mountain
2005 CLiff Lede SLD
Yalumba muscat stickie

Moving gently today, walking softly, water is my best friend.

[maverickdrinker]

1996 was a great year for champagne in general. I had the 96 bollinger RD and it was fantastic. Not too experienced in vintage champagne. This is one of my new year's resolutions....

Originally Posted by maverickdrinker

1996 was a great year for champagne in general. I had the 96 bollinger RD and it was fantastic. Not too experienced in vintage champagne. This is one of my new year's resolutions....

Wine in general is something I want to get more versed in. I haven't had a Champagne in a while though. It's another wine I need to get a few bottles of. I'm also curious as to which other regions produce good sparkling wine.

How about Pol Roger? 1998 Sir Winston worth the price tag?

[TheRiddick]

Originally Posted by ChicagoWhiteSox

How about Pol Roger? 1998 Sir Winston worth the price tag?

Nate, if you really want to learn about Champagne I would recommend you start with small, family owned brands. They are easily as good as (almost) anything from big boys and way better priced. See if you can pick up Agrapart, Henri Billiot, Duval-LeRoy, Paul Bara or Henriot. If you want to spend a bit more I can recommend you try Billecart-Salmon Rose.

And you really need to try Etoile rose as well (Napa), I had it next to some better French versions and for me it was easily the better wine at much better price.

[mosesbotbol]

Originally Posted by ChicagoWhiteSox

How about Pol Roger? 1998 Sir Winston worth the price tag?

It is an excellent Champagne, but there are many nice ones. How much did you see it for? Under $150 I would go for it.

Originally Posted by TheRiddick

Nate, if you really want to learn about Champagne I would recommend you start with small, family owned brands. They are easily as good as (almost) anything from big boys and way better priced. See if you can pick up Agrapart, Henri Billiot, Duval-LeRoy, Paul Bara or Henriot. If you want to spend a bit more I can recommend you try Billecart-Salmon Rose.

And you really need to try Etoile rose as well (Napa), I had it next to some better French versions and for me it was easily the better wine at much better price.

Thanks for the advice Greg. I think I can get most of those you listed.

Originally Posted by mosesbotbol

It is an excellent Champagne, but there are many nice ones. How much did you see it for? Under $150 I would go for it.

Moses, most prices I have seen have been around $190-200.

[mosesbotbol]

Originally Posted by ChicagoWhiteSox

Wine in general is something I want to get more versed in. I haven't had a Champagne in a while though. It's another wine I need to get a few bottles of. I'm also curious as to which other regions produce good sparkling wine.

All over France sparkling wines are made. Check out Cremant; all the pleasure of Champagne at 20% the price. Made mostly with Pinot Noir and comes in various sweetness levels. Cava from Spain is good too. America makes a few noteworthy ones from TX and RI.

[TheRiddick]

Pierre Ferrand is one of the better small house Cognacs around, IMO. Not cheap, but great. If you're into incredible Cognacs you should try Leopold Gourmel.

Of the sparklers on your list the one that "stands out" for me is Laurent-Perrier, really good stuff. Rene Geoffroy is good as well.

The other are mostly big houses (Pommery, Perrir-Jouet, Gosset) and although produce some really god wine I prefer to give my money to the small guys Gosset made its name on their Rose bottling and while good I had it next to that Etoile Rose I listed above and for me Etoile blew it away, handily. At a much better price.

The rest of the list is small, family owned wineries and while all are pretty good (I don't think you'll find a dud on the list) the few others I listed are probably better wines. The good thing about your list (the small guys) is that they are not that expensive (relatively) and you can try them all over the time to see what you like without spending a huge chunk of money.

For my money, if I really want to splurge, nothing beats Salon, IMO. They only release 3-4 times a decade and sell off bulk wine in the "off" years.

Costco in CA carries Piper-Heidsieck Rose Sauvage, at a really good price (used to see it at $40?), you should see if you can score a bottle. I know, its a large house, but the wine is undervalued, IMO, at that price.

Originally Posted by TheRiddick

Pierre Ferrand is one of the better small house Cognacs around, IMO. Not cheap, but great. If you're into incredible Cognacs you should try Leopold Gourmel.

Of the sparklers on your list the one that "stands out" for me is Laurent-Perrier, really good stuff. Rene Geoffroy is good as well.

The other are mostly big houses (Pommery, Perrir-Jouet, Gosset) and although produce some really god wine I prefer to give my money to the small guys Gosset made its name on their Rose bottling and while good I had it next to that Etoile Rose I listed above and for me Etoile blew it away, handily. At a much better price.

The rest of the list is small, family owned wineries and while all are pretty good (I don't think you'll find a dud on the list) the few others I listed are probably better wines. The good thing about your list (the small guys) is that they are not that expensive (relatively) and you can try them all over the time to see what you like without spending a huge chunk of money.

For my money, if I really want to splurge, nothing beats Salon, IMO. They only release 3-4 times a decade and sell off bulk wine in the "off" years.

Costco in CA carries Piper-Heidsieck Rose Sauvage, at a really good price (used to see it at $40?), you should see if you can score a bottle. I know, its a large house, but the wine is undervalued, IMO, at that price.

Cool Salon video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNrC3UFOGLY

[TheRiddick]

Moses,

This is the same thing Parker claims, brett is "terroir". And I say BS! Here is the challenge I presented to him, which he obviously declined as he knew he is set up for utter failure. Same one goes to you:

I will set up a blind test, each and every bottle will be a single varietal (Cab, Merlot, etc.). Each and every one will be infected with brett. All I want you to tell me is what varietal is in every bottle, nothing more than that.

You won't be able to as brett will be the single most defining character in each wine. How is that "terroir"? How is brett in France differ from, say, bretty bottle made in Australia or Mongolia? They all smell and taste the same at that point and the only thing they will all show is brett. BTW, frernch are not the only "guilty" party, OR Pinots are notorious for brett as well (hmmm, they do claim "Burgundian" style).
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Seth,

Good points and ideas. Sterile filtering is the only safe option. And wineries in CA are known to banish bretty barrels from the floor altogether, brett spreads like wild fire and I've seen barrels literally carted out to the parking lot for the owner to remove them ASAP. At the facility I am one intern a few years back was doing punch downs (per owner's request) and decided to cut corners. Instead of cleaning the punch down tool (stainless steel) between each bin he simply went from bin to bin (hey, not his wine and not his problem, right?). You guessed it, many wines at the facility that year (this is a shared facility) experienced a problem with brett, I was the lucky one since that particular day I was there and told the idiot to stay away from my bins (as well as educating him on proper winery standards of cleanliness, too bad I caught it too late into the task and a good number of bins were already infected).

Brett in beer is a different ball game, many Belgian beers are great because of brett.