Red's Fans Check in - Page 148

chippewastud79 · 12-08-2011, 10:24 AM

The move also makes Fielder a huge target for the Cardinals

Starscream · 12-08-2011, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chippewastud79

Will this be the same attitude if Votto peaces out after he is a FA?

It's a bit different b/c Votto doesn't go around constantly saying that he wants to remain a Red. Plus, Votto hasn't been around like Pujols has in St. Louis and established his own dynasty. Pujols has mentioned MANY times that he wanted to be a Cardinal for life. Votto has pretty much been politically correct and vague everytime he is asked about the future. He's not leading the fans on like Pujols did.

chippewastud79 · 12-08-2011, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Starscream

It's a bit different b/c Votto doesn't go around constantly saying that he wants to remain a Red. Plus, Votto hasn't been around like Pujols has in St. Louis and established his own dynasty. Pujols has mentioned MANY times that he wanted to be a Cardinal for life. Votto has pretty much been politically correct and vague everytime he is asked about the future. He's not leading the fans on like Pujols did.

Again, the Cardinals had the opportunity to step up to the plate, and they balked. They were hoping he would have a down season and bring his price down, he didn't and they wouldn't up their price.

Two years ago he began asking for the huge long-term deal and they couldn't get it done. He wanted to sign before camp and the Cardinals left the same offer on the table for over a year without changing it. Its almost as if they were expecting him to walk without a fight, and they certainly didn't appear to put one up.

~$198 million and ~$250-260 is a big difference, and the Cardinals couldn't match it. There is expected to be a loyalty from Pujols to them, but it apparently wasn't recipricated.

Starscream · 12-08-2011, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chippewastud79

Again, the Cardinals had the opportunity to step up to the plate, and they balked. They were hoping he would have a down season and bring his price down, he didn't and they wouldn't up their price.

Two years ago he began asking for the huge long-term deal and they couldn't get it done. He wanted to sign before camp and the Cardinals left the same offer on the table for over a year without changing it. Its almost as if they were expecting him to walk without a fight, and they certainly didn't appear to put one up.

~$198 million and ~$250-260 is a big difference, and the Cardinals couldn't match it. There is expected to be a loyalty from Pujols to them, but it apparently wasn't recipricated.

What he was asking for, and what he just got are to me unreasonable and outrageous for any team to pay out w/ the exception of NY, Boston, and maybe Philly. The Angels are going to really feel the burden of this deal about five years down the road, just like the Reds did with Griffey in his last few years. STL put their maximum dollar that they would be willing to pay, which was going to hurt them down the road if he accepted it just b/c they wanted to keep the fans happy. If the going rate was a billion dollars for Pujols and the Cardinals couldn't match that, would that still make them not loyal to him? $200 million for 9 or 10 years is beyond reasonable and is more than fair to him. He kept telling the fans that he wanted to remain in STL, but this was obviously not the case. If you sign a contract for ten years, then you sign for less money per year.

I've always supported and stood behind the MLB, even during the strike in '94, but the money deal is seriously starting to turn me off to the sport.

Starscream · 12-08-2011, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chippewastud79

The move also makes Fielder a huge target for the Cardinals

And it probably just drove up Fielder's asking price.

Starscream · 12-14-2011, 03:54 PM

I'm starting to think Walt Jocketty is a liar. He said they had big plans for the offseason, but so far they haven't even managed to get a top of the rotation pitcher.
Dmitri Young and a no name local pitcher...

chippewastud79 · 12-14-2011, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Starscream

I'm starting to think Walt Jocketty is a liar. He said they had big plans for the offseason, but so far they haven't even managed to get a top of the rotation pitcher.
Dmitri Young and a no name local pitcher...

Isn't Dmitri Young like 37 and just like Drew Stubbs? All or nothing?

Starscream · 12-14-2011, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chippewastud79

Isn't Dmitri Young like 37 and just like Drew Stubbs? All or nothing?

He's supposedly lost 70 lbs, but that's not gonna revive his career at 37.

elderboy02 · 12-14-2011, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Starscream

He's supposedly lost 70 lbs, but that's not gonna revive his career at 37.

I loved Dimitri Young when he was with the Reds a zillion years ago. Now, not so much.

Starscream · 12-16-2011, 06:17 PM

Looks like Shields is now out of our price range. Not necessarily bad news, b/c I didn't think he'd be a good fit at GABP due to the fact that he gives up a lot of hits and HRs. But the bad news is it looks like this sets the tone that Jocketty won't get anything significant done this offseason.

chippewastud79 · 12-17-2011, 01:26 PM

Mat Latos comes in on the first big deal for the Reds. Looks like Jockety is going to have to dig VERY deep to keep Votto, like staying within 20 million of the next closest offer with Alonso on the way out. Also, how does that Volquez for Hamilton trade look now? Unreal dumb.

I realize he was a league leader in ERA and K's/9 innings but I am not a big fan of giving up 4 players for one, including Alonso. Now if Stubbs was in the package, maybe I would be more excited about it.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/73...-two-prospects

hotreds · 12-17-2011, 03:05 PM

Latos IS a #1 pitcher, and we need a number one pitcher. Lots to give up in fact, and Volquez could turn it around, but I like the trade.

Starscream · 12-17-2011, 09:17 PM

I'm glad we got a top of the rotation guy, but I think the price was a little steep. Giving up Alonso and Grandal was expected. Throwing in Volquez too was a bit much, although I'm glad to be rid of him. Getting rid of Boxberger was over the top too.

hotreds · 12-17-2011, 09:39 PM

Bowden certainly thinks the Reds got jobbed! I guess time will tell.

elderboy02 · 12-17-2011, 10:06 PM

I like the trade. Everyone was complaining that they weren't making any moves, now we are complaining that they gave away too much. I don't get it.

We had no spot for Yonder and he sucked at defense. Volquez sucks now (headcase), and Grandal we didn't have a spot for with Hanningan/Mesorraco.

chippewastud79 · 12-17-2011, 11:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elderboy02

I like the trade. Everyone was complaining that they weren't making any moves, now we are complaining that they gave away too much. I don't get it.

We had no spot for Yonder and he sucked at defense. Volquez sucks now (headcase), and Grandal we didn't have a spot for with Hanningan/Mesorraco.

What happens in 2 years when they lose Votto to the highest bidder? Then they have a spot for him. Hell, the Reds make spots for guys like Stubbs and force them into the lineup. 4 first round draft picks for a guy who actually regressed last season and has been known to have outbursts around the clubhouse

He is a #1 pitcher, but he has won 14 games once, and was 9-14 last season while his stats actually regressed. The Padres get a starter, an opening day 1B, a catcher who is apparently close to ready and a pitcher who projects as a very nice bullpen pitcher.

smitdavi · 12-18-2011, 11:30 AM

IMO the REDS got hosed. Gave up way to much. They've def backed themselves into a corner with Votto now.

elderboy02 · 12-18-2011, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chippewastud79

What happens in 2 years when they lose Votto to the highest bidder? Then they have a spot for him. Hell, the Reds make spots for guys like Stubbs and force them into the lineup. 4 first round draft picks for a guy who actually regressed last season and has been known to have outbursts around the clubhouse

He is a #1 pitcher, but he has won 14 games once, and was 9-14 last season while his stats actually regressed. The Padres get a starter, an opening day 1B, a catcher who is apparently close to ready and a pitcher who projects as a very nice bullpen pitcher.

Prospects are just that... Prospects. Who knows if they will ever be any good. And remember Adam, you said the Reds suck at developing prospects.

chippewastud79 · 12-18-2011, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elderboy02

Prospects are just that... Prospects. Who knows if they will ever be any good. And remember Adam, you said the Reds suck at developing prospects.

Yeah, the Reds suck at developing talent because they rush people to the big show (See: Stubbs, Janish, Bruce, Bailey). With Yonder it looked like he was going to get the time to develop until Joey is a Yankee. Heck, he batted higher than most of the roster in 47 games last year.

They obviously weren't going to carry 3 catchers again this season, so they could have developed him until Hannigan left. Volquez may benefit from a change of scenery, but obviously the Reds were just looking to unload a liability and hopefully erase the huge mistake of a trade to get rid of Hamilton, because they wanted to rush Stubbs.

Starscream · 12-18-2011, 02:36 PM

Now we're stuck with Heisey in LF b/c we just traded away all of our bargaining power.

12-08-2011, 10:24 AM	#2941
chippewastud79 Fatter than you! Join Date: Oct 2008 First Name: Larry Location: A little place called home. Posts: 5,397 Trading: (44)	Re: Red's Fans Check in The move also makes Fielder a huge target for the Cardinals __________________ If we weren't supposed to eat animals, then how come they're made of meat? You can never have too many cigars, they are like an investment in good times.

12-14-2011, 03:54 PM	#2946
Starscream Knowhutimean, Vern? Join Date: Oct 2008 First Name: Andy Location: In a little town somewhere in the USA Posts: 10,237 Trading: (4)	Re: Red's Fans Check in I'm starting to think Walt Jocketty is a liar. He said they had big plans for the offseason, but so far they haven't even managed to get a top of the rotation pitcher. Dmitri Young and a no name local pitcher... __________________ Insert quote here.

12-16-2011, 06:17 PM	#2950
Starscream Knowhutimean, Vern? Join Date: Oct 2008 First Name: Andy Location: In a little town somewhere in the USA Posts: 10,237 Trading: (4)	Re: Red's Fans Check in Looks like Shields is now out of our price range. Not necessarily bad news, b/c I didn't think he'd be a good fit at GABP due to the fact that he gives up a lot of hits and HRs. But the bad news is it looks like this sets the tone that Jocketty won't get anything significant done this offseason. __________________ Insert quote here.

12-17-2011, 01:26 PM	#2951
chippewastud79 Fatter than you! Join Date: Oct 2008 First Name: Larry Location: A little place called home. Posts: 5,397 Trading: (44)	Re: Red's Fans Check in Mat Latos comes in on the first big deal for the Reds. Looks like Jockety is going to have to dig VERY deep to keep Votto, like staying within 20 million of the next closest offer with Alonso on the way out. Also, how does that Volquez for Hamilton trade look now? Unreal dumb. I realize he was a league leader in ERA and K's/9 innings but I am not a big fan of giving up 4 players for one, including Alonso. Now if Stubbs was in the package, maybe I would be more excited about it. http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/73...-two-prospects __________________ If we weren't supposed to eat animals, then how come they're made of meat? You can never have too many cigars, they are like an investment in good times.

12-17-2011, 03:05 PM	#2952
hotreds Ephesians 2:8 Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 5 miles past "Resume Speed" Posts: 11,662 Trading: (63)	Re: Red's Fans Check in Latos IS a #1 pitcher, and we need a number one pitcher. Lots to give up in fact, and Volquez could turn it around, but I like the trade. __________________ God loves you so much, that he made you read this, just to let you know.

12-17-2011, 09:17 PM	#2953
Starscream Knowhutimean, Vern? Join Date: Oct 2008 First Name: Andy Location: In a little town somewhere in the USA Posts: 10,237 Trading: (4)	Re: Red's Fans Check in I'm glad we got a top of the rotation guy, but I think the price was a little steep. Giving up Alonso and Grandal was expected. Throwing in Volquez too was a bit much, although I'm glad to be rid of him. Getting rid of Boxberger was over the top too. __________________ Insert quote here.

12-17-2011, 09:39 PM	#2954
hotreds Ephesians 2:8 Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 5 miles past "Resume Speed" Posts: 11,662 Trading: (63)	Re: Red's Fans Check in Bowden certainly thinks the Reds got jobbed! I guess time will tell. __________________ God loves you so much, that he made you read this, just to let you know.

12-17-2011, 10:06 PM	#2955
elderboy02 Lets Go Buckeyes! Join Date: Oct 2008 First Name: Dan Location: Cincinnati, OH Posts: 12,508 Trading: (133)	Re: Red's Fans Check in I like the trade. Everyone was complaining that they weren't making any moves, now we are complaining that they gave away too much. I don't get it. We had no spot for Yonder and he sucked at defense. Volquez sucks now (headcase), and Grandal we didn't have a spot for with Hanningan/Mesorraco.

12-18-2011, 11:30 AM	#2957
smitdavi Ambassador of Quan Join Date: Oct 2008 First Name: David Location: Bloomington, IN Posts: 1,434 Trading: (9)	Re: Red's Fans Check in IMO the REDS got hosed. Gave up way to much. They've def backed themselves into a corner with Votto now.

12-18-2011, 02:36 PM	#2960
Starscream Knowhutimean, Vern? Join Date: Oct 2008 First Name: Andy Location: In a little town somewhere in the USA Posts: 10,237 Trading: (4)	Re: Red's Fans Check in Now we're stuck with Heisey in LF b/c we just traded away all of our bargaining power. __________________ Insert quote here.