NHL '09 - '10 Thread

[Ahbroody]

They just got a little older.

Christos I would respond to your reply, but we have been down this road over and over last year. I told you what was going to happen then and it did. The Wings barely got passed the Coyotes. Barely! I am telling you now if you think Hudler is going to right that ship I want some of the crack you got. They are a 4maybe 5-6 seed depending on how some other teams with kids play. This aint 5 years ago its the cap era and the Wings are not in a good spot. They are not on par with the Canucks, Hawks, or Sharks, I think the Yotes may have another good year also, add LA with its kids and the Wings will be middle pack. No big improvement.

And no a 40 year old Modano who came back for one year to make a mil and play near home is not a big free agent.

[icehog3]

But they re-signed Berschmoozi!!!

[357]

Wings are old? Lack depth?

http://redwingsguy.wordpress.com/201...ost-to-injury/

The Wings had the fourth most man-games-lost-to-injury (MGLI) in 2009-2010 at 307. Only Minnesota (316), Colorado (340), and Edmonton (494) had more.

That got me to thinking: how did Detroit’s depth compare to other teams with significant injuries?

To quantify that comparison, let’s look at how many points these teams earned despite MGLIs. We need to turn MGLI into a positive statistic. That’s right, I’m creating a new stat called man-games-NOT-lost-to-injury (MGNLI). MGNLI is exactly what it sounds like: the total number of healthy player games. Based on a 23 man roster in an 82 game season, there are 1886 healthy games to be had. This is a hypothetical number to be sure, but it just serves a measuring stick. Subtract the man-games-lost-to-injury and you have the MGNLI.

I’m no math wizard, but the formula looks like this:
MGNLI = (23 players * 82 games) – MGLI

Got it? Good.

Here’s a graph depicting the top (bottom?) ten teams in man-games-lost-to-injury and their season point record (W-L-OTL) to MGNLI ratio:



What does this graph mean? It could be looked at a couple ways:

A) The higher the number, the more season points teams earned per healthy game.

B) The higher the number, the more season points teams squeezed out of their scrubs.

Either way, it points to the quality of depth.

No surprise to us Wings fans that Detroit is at the top. Also no surprise other playoff teams Vancouver, New Jersey, and Colorado stand out on this graph, too.

There are other factors to a team’s record of course, but for the purposes of this analysis, I’m only looking at injuries. Are all injuries created as equal? Of course not. This is just a general sense of depth a team has. But even if one wants to include the “value” of the injured player, consider that two of Detroit’s top three forwards Franzen and Zetterberg combined for a total of 63 games lost, while in Vancouver all those named Sedin missed only 19.

Not that you needed it, but there’s the mathematical proof of the Red Wings’ depth. Howard deserves credit, of course. But so does Bert for carrying the team offensively for a while. And it’s no wonder Kenny is keeping Eaves, Miller, Abby, and Helmer around.

Detroit suffered 307 man-games-lost-to-injury and still amassed 102 points. They’re bringing back virtually the same team next season, injury-free. How do you feel about their chances?

[icehog3]

[King James]

[Ahbroody]

Originally Posted by 357

1) Wings are old? Lack depth?

2) http://redwingsguy..

3) How do you feel about their chances?

1) Yes they are and they just got older with the Modano signing. Yes. This fact was why they couldnt generate when players were injured. Old Wings teams before cap this was not a factor.

Are you attempting to argue the Wings are as good as the Sharks, Hawks, or Canucks? While they are on par possibly better then Yotes and Kings, those teams are younger faster and possibly hungrier.

2) Yeah homer blogs rock.

3) I already said this 4 times. They will be middle of pack and likely fade early in the playoffs again. They will not win the cup. Their roster is not on par with the Hawks, Canucks, or Sharks. I dont see them making it past any of those teams which means another second round exit.


I swear the rough thing about Wings fans is that you guys were so good for so long none of you can accept the obvious facts that this is not the same team that won the cups. Its just life. It was a good run. Get over it and get ready for a good but not great team that wont win any cups for a while. Your captain is another year older along with Holmstrom and the true core. I swear talking to you guys is funny. My point being I told Christos exactly what was going to happen last year and it did. Scoreboard! It will happen again this year.

From now on when you homers talk about the Wings injuries I am posting a picture of a pair of crutches.

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Beaauuuty of a pic Tom
Jim get out of here with that pic. Go Leafs Go!

[GreekGodX]

It all comes down to having to let the season play out. I think the Wings will be very hungry this year. Nothing better than seeing the Hawks win a cup to motivate you to win this season. I'm not claiming the Wings to be the best team in the NHL but while other teams didn't upgrade the Wings made some small moves that will make them better next season. Obviously there are question marks, but a lot of other teams have question marks as well. There will be a lot of parody next season. I don't really like the Modano signing but if we can squeeze 20-25 goals(big if) out of him and he plays with toughness on the boards that we desperately need I'll take it.

[357]

Originally Posted by Ahbroody

1) Yes they are and they just got older with the Modano signing. Yes. This fact was why they couldnt generate when players were injured. Old Wings teams before cap this was not a factor.

Are you attempting to argue the Wings are as good as the Sharks, Hawks, or Canucks? While they are on par possibly better then Yotes and Kings, those teams are younger faster and possibly hungrier.

2) Yeah homer blogs rock.

3) I already said this 4 times. They will be middle of pack and likely fade early in the playoffs again. They will not win the cup. Their roster is not on par with the Hawks, Canucks, or Sharks. I dont see them making it past any of those teams which means another second round exit.


I swear the rough thing about Wings fans is that you guys were so good for so long none of you can accept the obvious facts that this is not the same team that won the cups. Its just life. It was a good run. Get over it and get ready for a good but not great team that wont win any cups for a while. Your captain is another year older along with Holmstrom and the true core. I swear talking to you guys is funny. My point being I told Christos exactly what was going to happen last year and it did. Scoreboard! It will happen again this year.

From now on when you homers talk about the Wings injuries I am posting a picture of a pair of crutches.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Beaauuuty of a pic Tom
Jim get out of here with that pic. Go Leafs Go!

1.) 102 points seems like they produced despite injuries.

2.) Homer blog or not it makes sense. Franzen missed 65 games.

3.) Middle of the pack is not 2nd or 3rd in the Conference. Middle of the pack is .500. I don't think the Hawks, Canucks, or Sharks have significantly more talent than the Wings. It might be 3 or 4 years younger, but not necessarily better.

The Hawks have taken a big gamble on Turco. They finally found a goalie they liked and couldn't find the cap room to keep him.

Here's the Canucks vs Wings top 10 playoff performers last year:

PHP Code:

#    Pos    Player        GP     G    A     P     +/-     PIM     PP     SH     GW     S     S% 
93    R    Johan Franzen    12    6    12    18    8    16    1    0    1    48    12.5
40    L    Henrik Zetterberg    12    7    8    15    11    6    2    0    2    45    15.6
13    C    Pavel Datsyuk    12    6    7    13    3    8    1    0    1    39    15.4
44    R    Todd Bertuzzi    12    2    9    11    4    12    1    0    0    19    10.5
28    D    Brian Rafalski    12    3    8    11    4    2    1    0    0    23    13
5    D    Nicklas Lidstrom    12    4    6    10    7    2    3    0    0    39    10.3
51    C    Valtteri Filppula    12    4    5    9    1    6    2    0    0    33    12.1
96    L    Tomas Holmstrom    12    4    3    7    3    12    1    0    1    26    15.4
23    D    Brad Stuart    12    2    4    6    6    8    0    0    0    23    8.7
55    D    Niklas Kronwall    12    0    5    5    2    12    0    0    0    15    0
Totals                    38    67    105    49    84    12    0    5    310


#    Pos    Player        GP     G    A     P     +/-     PIM     PP     SH     GW     S     S% 
26    R    Mikael Samuelsson12    8    7    15    7    16    3    0    1    42    19
22    L    Daniel Sedin    12    5    9    14    4    12    1    0    2    38    13.2
33    C    Henrik Sedin    12    3    11    14    3    6    0    0    1    23    13
17    C    Ryan Kesler    12    1    9    10    3    4    0    0    0    21    4.8
3    D    Kevin Bieksa    12    3    5    8    2    14    1    0    1    20    15
5    D    Christian Ehrhoff    12    3    4    7    -1    8    1    0    0    25    12
42    C    Kyle Wellwood    12    2    5    7    -1    0    1    0    0    18    11.1
38    R    Pavol Demitra    11    2    4    6    2    4    0    0    0    17    11.8
6    D    Sami Salo    12    1    5    6    2    2    1    0    0    18    5.6
14    L    Alexandre Burrows    12    3    3    6    4    22    0    0    0    27    11.1
Totals                    31    62    93    25    88    8    0    5    249 


Doesn't look vastly superior to me? In fact I think the Wings can count on Franzen to continue that scoring pace next playoff run. I wouldn't count on Samuelsson to do the same for the Canucks.

And lastly, the Sharks always go shark. Unfortunately they did it against the Hawks, after the series with the Wings. Sorry I couldn't resist, I hope you know it's all in good fun.

Really sad to see Niemi go. The salary cap is really coming back to bite us in the ass. Oh well, at least we got the cup.

[icehog3]

Originally Posted by 357

2.) Homer blog or not it makes sense. Franzen missed 65 games.

Hossa missed half the season, Toews missed 15 games, Seabrook, Campbell, etc, etc....while the Wings injuries were over the top, all teams deal with it...just part of the game.

Originally Posted by 357

The Hawks have taken a big gamble on Turco. They finally found a goalie they liked and couldn't find the cap room to keep him.

I like the move...Niemi started all of 39 games, and benefitted from having the least shots on goals per game of any goalie in the league. Turco handles the puck like a 3rd defenseman, and will make the Hawks' transition game even faster. And the 1.45 million will allow players to compete for 34rd and 4th line jobs rather than just filling them with the cheapest options from Rockford.

Hawks offered Niemi a multi-year deal, and he wanted to see the cash. He may be the real deal, but only time will tell....be curious to see how he plays behind a lesser defense.

[357]

Originally Posted by icehog3

Hossa missed half the season, Toews missed 15 games, Seabrook, Campbell, etc, etc....while the Wings injuries were over the top, all teams deal with it...just part of the game.



I like the move...Niemi started all of 39 games, and benefitted from having the least shots on goals per game of any goalie in the league. Turco handles the puck like a 3rd defenseman, and will make the Hawks' transition game even faster. And the 1.45 million will allow players to compete for 34rd and 4th line jobs rather than just filling them with the cheapest options from Rockford.

Hawks offered Niemi a multi-year deal, and he wanted to see the cash. He may be the real deal, but only time will tell....be curious to see how he plays behind a lesser defense.

True injuries happen. It's no excuse for the players, coaches, or management, but fans can use it.

As for Niemi, you think he had it a little easy in puting up a 2.00 GAA only facing 20 shots/game? You're probably right, it's not so easy when you face 30+ a night?

[icehog3]

Originally Posted by 357

True injuries happen. It's no excuse for the players, coaches, or management, but fans can use it.

As for Niemi, you think he had it a little easy in puting up a 2.00 GAA only facing 20 shots/game? You're probably right, it's not so easy when you face 30+ a night?

Agreed on both counts.

[Ahbroody]

Originally Posted by 357

1.) 102 points seems like they produced despite injuries.

2.) Homer blog or not it makes sense. Franzen missed 65 games.

3.) Middle of the pack is not 2nd or 3rd in the Conference. Middle of the pack is .500. I don't think the Hawks, Canucks, or Sharks have significantly more talent than the Wings. It might be 3 or 4 years younger, but not necessarily better.

The Hawks have taken a big gamble on Turco. They finally found a goalie they liked and couldn't find the cap room to keep him.



Doesn't look vastly superior to me? In fact I think the Wings can count on Franzen to continue that scoring pace next playoff run. I wouldn't count on Samuelsson to do the same for the Canucks.

And lastly, the Sharks always go shark. Unfortunately they did it against the Hawks, after the series with the Wings. Sorry I couldn't resist, I hope you know it's all in good fun.

1) 102 points was good for 5th. The kings at 6th had 101 and the Preds had 100 points and more wins. You loose one more game and you are 7th place. Yeah you were one win over 7th place. Thats 7TH, 7TH place. 1 WIN.

2) Good to see those crutches fit you well, you are using them like a true homer.

3)You are right middle of the pack is not second or third its 4-5 and you finished 5th as noted you were one win from 7th. If you lost one more game you barely get into the dance. You were barely middle of the playoff pack and for all purposes should have finished 7TH. You got lucky getting 5th.

You show last years stats for the Canucks. Lets not forget their goalie is superior. I dont know any sane person who would take Howard over Luongo. and they added Malholtra one of the best face off men in the league and got better in the off season. The Wings well as Tom said signed Bersmoochi a player no one wants and Modano who decided to make a million for one more year then to hang them up. I am sure he will really have something to prove out there.

Yup the Sharks went Shark and lost to the Stanely Cup winning team. The Wings got lucky escaping the Yotes in 7 and got their teeth kicked in by the Sharks. I guess that means the Wings tanked harder then the team that always tanks in the playoffs.

Sorry if you are trying to dig at me with the Sharks it wont work. I live here and am a hockey fan first Sharks fan 3rd after another team. I am not a homer who tries to justify my home team putting up stats and making excuses for things.

[E.J.]

I think this is a good time to interject a solid...

GO AVS!!!! ( '10 - '11 )

[icehog3]

Originally Posted by E.J.

I think this is a good time to interject a solid...

GO AVS!!!! ( '10 - '11 )

I will root for Craig Anderson whenever he isn't playing the Hawks.

[357]

Originally Posted by Ahbroody

1) 102 points was good for 5th. The kings at 6th had 101 and the Preds had 100 points and more wins. You loose one more game and you are 7th place. Yeah you were one win over 7th place. Thats 7TH, 7TH place. 1 WIN.

2) Good to see those crutches fit you well, you are using them like a true homer.

3)You are right middle of the pack is not second or third its 4-5 and you finished 5th as noted you were one win from 7th. If you lost one more game you barely get into the dance. You were barely middle of the playoff pack and for all purposes should have finished 7TH. You got lucky getting 5th.

You show last years stats for the Canucks. Lets not forget their goalie is superior. I dont know any sane person who would take Howard over Luongo. and they added Malholtra one of the best face off men in the league and got better in the off season. The Wings well as Tom said signed Bersmoochi a player no one wants and Modano who decided to make a million for one more year then to hang them up. I am sure he will really have something to prove out there.

Yup the Sharks went Shark and lost to the Stanely Cup winning team. The Wings got lucky escaping the Yotes in 7 and got their teeth kicked in by the Sharks. I guess that means the Wings tanked harder then the team that always tanks in the playoffs.

Sorry if you are trying to dig at me with the Sharks it wont work. I live here and am a hockey fan first Sharks fan 3rd after another team. I am not a homer who tries to justify my home team putting up stats and making excuses for things.

Come on, you tout adding Malholtra (35 points last year) vs the Wings brining back Hudler (56 points 1 year removed)? Hudler is clearly the better addtion, faceoff specialist or not. Now who's a homer?

My point about middle of the pack is this (10-11) season. It can't be argued about last season, standings are standings. I doubt they will finish anywhere near 7th or even 5th. I expect them to be in 3rd or better in the West.

I will give you Luongo over Howard, The biggest reason is Howard hasn't proved his ability beyond his first year. He hasn't had a chance yet so time will tell.

You can mock resigning Bertuzzi too but he had 44 points last season. It's not a bad deal given what they signed him for ($2.25 million next season and $1.625 million in 2011-12; $1.9375 cap hit).

[icehog3]

I like mocking Berschmoozi for any reason, at every opportunity, Mike...you gotta get used to it to hang in this thread.

[357]

Originally Posted by icehog3

I like mocking Berschmoozi for any reason, at every opportunity, Mike...you gotta get used to it to hang in this thread.

I can hang. I have thick skin.

I'm not a big fan of Bert's either, but I understand why Ken Holland brought him back.

[357]

Actually I remember when they traded for Chelios. Man I hated him when he wore a Blackhawks sweater. I'll admit it took some time to warm up to the idea of him wearing the winged wheel.

Bert's never really gotten that welcome. His past has cost him that.

[icehog3]

Dollar Bill broke my heart when he let Chelly go to Detroit. Wortz said Chelios only had another year left, and wouldn't give him a long term deal. He played 10 more years.

Chelios told me a funny story about his first day as a Wing. Brendan Shanahan was playing for Detroit then, and he and Chelios had been hateful enemies when Chelly was a Hawk and Brendan was a Blue.

Chelios walks into the locker room, looks over at Shanahan...and Shanahan just starts shaking his head and laughing hysterically. That gets Chris and everyone else laughing, and as pretty much happens in hockey, they are loyal teammates from that day forward.