Pumping Iron with Zemekone and Icehog3

[nem]

Originally Posted by pnutbutrsangwich

I need to get back in the gym. I took a month off and now I'm totally lost. Would it be best to hire a trainer for a few sessions to get going or are there other online resources that can put together a good program for me?

There are some very good and competent trainers out there, but the bulk of trainers that you will find at the big chain gyms (24, Bally's, LA, etc.) are only helpful if you've never stepped into a gym before and need basic instruction . . . especially given how much you'll be paying. Case in point, I recently went shopping for gym membership, and at this one gym I asked this chick (who was the office manager and a trainer) if members were allowed to do cleans. She had no idea what a clean was until I literally demonstrated the movement to her. Obviously, most trainers are more knowledgeable than her. However, too often will you see "master trainers" with little applicable knowledge despite having fancy degrees in kinesiology and what not.

If you need instruction on how to safely perform basic exercises, consider consulting a trainer for a few sessions. Otherwise, if you already know how to perform exercises and is just looking for a routine, you're better off looking at websites such as t-nation and bodybuilding.com (as it has already been advised). I also highly recommend the book "The Poliquin Principles: Successful Methods for Strength and Mass Development" by Charles Poliquin. It's a great text covering the fundamentals of weight training and more. I have an electronic copy of this book somewhere, so if you're interested, PM me and I'll dig it up for you.

[PeteSB75]

Originally Posted by nem

You've been lifting heavy longer than I've been alive, sir! LOL.

Lately, my shoulders have been acting less than happy. I've contemplated seeing my doc, but there's no serious pain, and I'd rather not receive instructions to not bench for the next 6 months . . . However, I was wondering if you had any recommendations on what kind of supplements to take to improve shoulder health?

I can't speak to supplements. However, as far as shoulder pain goes, I had a persistent issue with it for some time. I solved it by changing the way I bench, taking a closer grip. I take the bar with my pinkys at the notch, or even just inside it, bringing the angle of the shoulder below parallel and elbows slightly closer to my body. It does change the bar path a bit, it winds up hitting my chest just below my nipples, but after months of daily discomfort, that small adjustment has made a world of difference.

Anyway, been feeling like crap lately, so decided I needed a full week off. Back tomorrow morning.

[icehog3]

Some people swear by the Glucosamine/Chondroiton/MSM, Alex...I found that it helped a bit but took a long time to get enough in my system to make a difference.

Besides the creatine I find that the anti-inflammatory properties in Naproxen Sodium (Aleve) give me some relief.

Continuing with what Pete said, over the years I found that shortening up my range of motion on some chest and shoulder exercises heas been beneficial as well. I keep constant tension on the muscles being worked, but don't transfer as much stress to the tendons and ligaments of the shoulder joint. I have actually made better size gains as well since employing this method.

[BigFrank]

Read and watch, this will explain a lot about benching and shoulder issue.
http://www.tmuscle.com/free_online_a...nch_press_cure

As Dave Tate would say "You don't know how to ****ing bench."

[icehog3]

Got back to the gym today after 2 days off....did chest, and ironically, my shoulder tie-in seems to be getting better.

[Starscream]

35 min on the elliptical.
Shoulder work, then legs (quads, hamstrings, and calves).
Was proud of my self for doing calf raises at the 300 mark (on the leg press machine). Although that's chump change for most of you guys.

[nem]

Originally Posted by PeteSB75

I can't speak to supplements. However, as far as shoulder pain goes, I had a persistent issue with it for some time. I solved it by changing the way I bench, taking a closer grip. I take the bar with my pinkys at the notch, or even just inside it, bringing the angle of the shoulder below parallel and elbows slightly closer to my body. It does change the bar path a bit, it winds up hitting my chest just below my nipples, but after months of daily discomfort, that small adjustment has made a world of difference.

Anyway, been feeling like crap lately, so decided I needed a full week off. Back tomorrow morning.

Originally Posted by icehog3

Some people swear by the Glucosamine/Chondroiton/MSM, Alex...I found that it helped a bit but took a long time to get enough in my system to make a difference.

Besides the creatine I find that the anti-inflammatory properties in Naproxen Sodium (Aleve) give me some relief.

Continuing with what Pete said, over the years I found that shortening up my range of motion on some chest and shoulder exercises heas been beneficial as well. I keep constant tension on the muscles being worked, but don't transfer as much stress to the tendons and ligaments of the shoulder joint. I have actually made better size gains as well since employing this method.

Guys - Thanks for the helpful advice! My shoulder problems started about 2 years ago (probably due to excessive bench and shoulder pressing). I stopped shoulder pressing for a bit and went light on the bench, and things got better for a while. However, for the past half year or so I've been doing a lot of heavy doubles/triples in an effort to boost my bench. While my bench has definitely gone up, my left shoulder started acting up again. In the last month or so, I've been literally doing half as much weight as before but with a lot more volume (think 10 sets of 10 or 12, plus additional sets of cable crossovers, flys, etc.) to help myself recover. This combined with rotator cuff exercises at least every other day has improved things a bit. Though I still have some way to go. I agree with Tom that doing partials (not locking out is key!) are great for reducing shoulder stress and putting on mass (especially with a slow and steady eccentric phase). Likewise Pete is very much correct in utilizing a narrower grip which definitely reduces shoulder stress. Some folks also like to bench with dumbbells instead of barbells for reducing shoulder stress as it is evidently more biomechanically sound (greater range of motion as well, especially for incline).

[nem]

Originally Posted by BigFrank

Read and watch, this will explain a lot about benching and shoulder issue.
http://www.tmuscle.com/free_online_a...nch_press_cure

As Dave Tate would say "You don't know how to ****ing bench."

Thanks for the link. I've actually read this before. Absolutely great article! Now if only I had seen this 3 years ago . . . *doh*

[BigFrank]

Originally Posted by nem

Some folks also like to bench with dumbbells instead of barbells for reducing shoulder stress as it is evidently more biomechanically sound (greater range of motion as well, especially for incline).

I disagree here, I personally think that using dumbbells offers a reduced range of motion, hence the "less stress on the shoulders" when in fact, the reduced range of motion allows people with poor form, to spare their shoulders i.e. elbows do not pass below bench. Also using Dumbbells forces people to stay close compared to going outrageously wide when barbell benching.
Also, one thing I have found with my change from bodybuilding to powerlifting is the focus on a strong upper back. Before, I like many others I had rotator cuff issues and problems with my shoulders. But with my focus ( twice a week now ) on upper back I have found that all pain is gone in rotator cuff and shoulders. Also pain in my elbows has all but gone too. I contribute this totally to hammering my upper back and rear delts like never before. Also, to add another point, I am using weight that I have never used before pushing the bounds of my lifts every week with no issues whatsoever. One would think that by using heavier weight my previous issues would resurface but they have not.
Final point, bench better and blast that upper back.

Here is a good article worth reading on the subject.
http://www.elitefts.com/documents/up..._the_bench.htm

Tonights workout-
Bench-415x6 new pr.
Did a lot of Dips, and then 12 minutes of conditioning.

[Chris.]

I also find it easier to bench with my thumb around the back of the bar along with my fingers, rather than around the opposite sides. This helps me tuck my elbows in and keep my back slightly arched. It has also kept my shoulder from hurting during the press.

[PeteSB75]

Originally Posted by Chris.

I also find it easier to bench with my thumb around the back of the bar along with my fingers, rather than around the opposite sides. This helps me tuck my elbows in and keep my back slightly arched. It has also kept my shoulder from hurting during the press.

My problem there is that would make it too easy to slip off the bar, dropping it onto my chest.

[Chris.]

It does put a good bit of strain on my knuckles, but there is no fear of it slipping from my palms. it rests well above the wrists. In that video he is lifting with his hands the way I described.

[PeteSB75]

Good, and extremely tiring workout this morning.

Squatted 315x5 for 3 sets, pressed 130x5/125x5,5 and deaded 275. Tying PRs for all three, but not going any heavier. I was beat enough at the end that I had a tough time getting the plates off the bar on the floor after the dead. Straps made a world of difference with the dead. Much more comfortable being able to do that with a normal grip and not feeling like I was about to drop the bar.

Missed the bottom step on the stairs on my way down from the weight area, messing about with my water bottle and notebook - my normal gym is on three floors. Twisted my knee a bit and landed with my foot sideways. Doesn't seem to be bothering me, aside from some slight soreness. Will see how it feels tomorrow.

[nem]

Originally Posted by BigFrank

I disagree here, I personally think that using dumbbells offers a reduced range of motion, hence the "less stress on the shoulders" when in fact, the reduced range of motion allows people with poor form, to spare their shoulders i.e. elbows do not pass below bench. Also using Dumbbells forces people to stay close compared to going outrageously wide when barbell benching.

I think we'll have to agree to disagree here. Some people don't go low enough when benching with dumbbells, but likewise, plenty of folks fail to touch their chest when benching with a barbell. The reason I feel that dumbbells facilitate a greater range of motion is because with a barbell, once the bar hits your chest, you aren't going to go any lower. On the other hand, it's possible to lower dumbbells ever further down. I've always felt a greater "stretch" when benching with dumbbells. I agree that keeping the dumbbells close (not using a wide grip) helps to reduce shoulder stress, but more importantly it's being able to grip the dumbbells at a slight angle, which has always felt more natural for me.

Originally Posted by BigFrank

Also, one thing I have found with my change from bodybuilding to powerlifting is the focus on a strong upper back. Before, I like many others I had rotator cuff issues and problems with my shoulders. But with my focus ( twice a week now ) on upper back I have found that all pain is gone in rotator cuff and shoulders. Also pain in my elbows has all but gone too. I contribute this totally to hammering my upper back and rear delts like never before. Also, to add another point, I am using weight that I have never used before pushing the bounds of my lifts every week with no issues whatsoever. One would think that by using heavier weight my previous issues would resurface but they have not. Final point, bench better and blast that upper back.

Here is a good article worth reading on the subject.
http://www.elitefts.com/documents/up..._the_bench.htm

Thanks for the advice and link! I definitely agree that working the upper back and lats will increase one's bench. However, I'm unfamiliar with most of the exercises in Wendler's article, so I'll definitely need to give them a try.

[BigFrank]

pulled tonight

555x5, tired and tired.
pull ups did some reps and sets
rows blah
hammer curls lame.
leg raises, more tiredness

[PeteSB75]

Originally Posted by BigFrank

pulled tonight

555x5, tired and tired.
pull ups did some reps and sets
rows blah
hammer curls lame.
leg raises, more tiredness

So, I take it you were tired?

[The Professor]

Took Saturday, Sunday, Monday, and Tuesday off from the gym -- all for travel, except yesterday. I did mow in nasty hot and humid weather on Monday, thought.

Was just going to do cardio today; but once I got in there, I decided the cardio was just warmup. I just couldn't resist the weight room's siren song.

Did DB flat bench, DB incline, partial triplex, some extra upright rows, and triceps (mostly overhead rope extensions). We'll see what I do tomorrow ... maybe just cardio, maybe not.

[icehog3]

Oh, the Siren's song.......the real men cannot resist.

[The Professor]

Originally Posted by icehog3

Oh, the Siren's song.......the real men cannot resist.

I think that's the first time anyone has EVER inferred that I'm a "real" man.

[elderboy02]

I worked out on the elliptical yesterday. My boss (who is a physical therapist) showed me an exercise to do to work my upper back and neck.