First Firearm Thread.

[BloodSpite]

if I had a 1911 I'd be all over'em

Time to find a Gun Show

[HK3-]

Anyone own a Remington R-1? Found one for a great price and was looking for some opinions before pulling the trigger.

[SNKBYT]

Originally Posted by MurphysLaw

Those are some great looking grips, lots of nice stuff on their site too. If I had a second 1911 I'd be all over a set of those.

Originally Posted by BloodSpite

if I had a 1911 I'd be all over'em
Time to find a Gun Show

she carries grips for other pistols as well as 1911s

[replicant_argent]

http://www.esmeralda.cc/
Alex is quite correct.
1911 Full Size
1911 Compact
Slender Series Grips
Slender Compact
1911 Magwell
Browning Hi-Power
Beretta
Ruger Single Action
Ruger MKII
Ruger Bisley
S&W J frame
BobTail Grips



Also, Alex, I found some that reminded me of you, even though I obviously like the ones you have on your 1911.

http://www.gunlistings.org/missouri-...ad_on_me_never

[hotreds]

Shotguns: The Best Felon Killing Home Defense Tool Ever Made
by Richard Johnson

03/29/2011

Countless hours have been spent arguing what makes the “best” home defense gun. The reality is there is not a single gun that meets the requirements of every person and household.

Frequently, when talking about home defense guns, the shotgun is brought up first. The shotgun can make a very good home defense weapon, but it does have limitations that should be carefully considered.

Power

Shotguns offer devastating stopping power. From a 12 gauge shell, a homeowner can put nine 00-buck (.33 caliber) pellets into an assailant with each pull of the trigger. While this is not guaranteed to stop a determined attacker, it is certainly an attention getter.

By comparison, a 9mm pistol fires a single .355 caliber bullet at typically slower velocities than the shotgun. You would have to pull the trigger nine times on a pistol to put the same kind of stopping power into an assailant as a single shotgun shell.

But there are a number of drawbacks associated with the shotgun including recoil, size and unrealistic expectations regarding performance.

Ouch Factor

Shotgun recoil is stout. A smaller statured shooter is less likely to want to shoot a 12 gauge pump. The very thing that makes the shotgun so effective — power — is the same thing that makes people shy away from using it.

Shotgun recoil can be tamed in a variety of ways. For example, consider using a 20 gauge instead of 12 gauge shotgun. A 20 gauge shotgun loaded with #3 buck (20 .25 caliber pellets) is nearly as effective on human targets in across-the-room distances as a 12 gauge loaded with 00-buck, but has significantly less recoil.

Also, the use of a semi-auto shotgun can reduce felt recoil since the operating system uses some of that energy to eject and chamber shells. Moving from a 12 gauge pump to a semi automatic 20 can really change a reluctant shooter into a willing one.

If you decide to go with the 12 gauge shotgun, consider using the reduced recoil loads offered by most manufacturers. These loads have been used to great effect by law enforcement agencies, with no noticeable loss in terminal performance. In other words, less recoil but same stopping power.

A Knoxx recoil reduction stock from BLACKHAWK! significantly reduces recoil. As a former cop, I carried a shotgun in a patrol car for more than 10 years, and I state without any hesitation that the Knoxx stock is the best accessory ever designed for a combat shotgun.

Size Matters

Size matters in two important aspects: length of barrel and length of pull.

The length of the shotgun barrel typically ranges from 18” to 28”. Anything shorter is illegal without the proper tax stamp from Big Brother.

A long shotgun barrel, such as would be used for wing shooting, is difficult to tactically maneuver through a house. I would never suggest leaving the relative safety of an entrenched position to go looking for home intruders, but reality is you may have to move from your room to go protect your children or other family member.

An 18” - 20” barrel is optimal. If you have a shotgun with a longer barrel, you can easily purchase a second barrel that installs in about five minutes. When you get ready to go hunting, simply swap the barrel back. Shotguns are very easy with which to work.

Second Childhood

Length of pull refers to how a long gun fits you. If the size of the shotgun is wrong, you are going to be less accurate and it will be more difficult for you to work the slide and other controls on the gun.

While aftermarket stocks like the Knoxx allow for an adjustable length of pull, another option is to purchase a youth-sized shotgun. These shotguns have a shorter stock for children learning to shoot. The great thing is, these same guns work very well for many women and smaller statured men.

A side benefit for the youth guns is they often times are slightly less expensive than their larger cousins.

Point and Shoot - No Aiming Required

I cringe every time I hear a gun store commando telling a novice shooter “With the scattergun, all ya gots to do is just point it in the general direction and pull the trigger. You ain’t gotta aim.”

Bovine manure. Shotguns come with a sighting system for a reason. At typical house distances (down the hall, across the room), the shot pattern is going to be very tight. If you do not aim, you will miss.

If you don’t believe me, carry your shotgun out to the range and shoot man-sized targets at five yards. The hole it makes will be impressive. But, you will notice that there is very little spread of the pellets. In other words, if you don’t aim, that tight group of pellets is likely go go somewhere other than the intruder.

The Magic of Racking a Shotgun

Another piece of gun store hero advice goes something along the lines of “The sound of a 12 gauge being racked will cause the assailant to wet himself and run, you’ll never have to shoot.”

Much like the previous statement, this piece of ‘wisdom’ is better used for fertilizing vegetables than for self defense.

I’ve spent a significant portion of my adult life dealing with the criminal element. Today’s criminal is a predator who is not scared of a homeowner merely making noise with a shotgun.

If someone comes into your home to do you harm, racking the shotgun will not scare them away. Through rage, socialization or drugs human predators are frequently incapable of feeling fear or compassion. Making noise will not likely stop an attacker. Lead will.

This is My Boomstick

The shotgun offers a lot of advantages for a home defense gun. They offer exceptional stopping power, are relatively inexpensive and they are pretty simple to operate.

However, the shotgun is not a perfect tool. Your circumstances and needs may dictate an alternative weapon to the shotgun. But finding the proper shotgun for your needs and a little planning, the ‘old smoothbore’ can be an extremely effective tool for protecting you and your family.

Effective Tools for Felon Repellant

Remington 870, model 24591 – This is a 12 gauge shotgun built on the famous 870 action, but with a few nice upgrades. From the factory, it comes with the Knoxx recoil reducing stock, a Wilson Combat ghost ring rear sight and a XS front sight post. MSRP $986.

Mossberg 930 Home Security, model 85320 – This 12 gauge is a reasonably priced, reliable semi-auto shotgun. No frills, just business. With a 4+1 capacity, front bead sight and Mossberg ambidextrous safety, this shotgun is easy to run and easy on the wallet. MSRP $612.

Remington 11-87 Sportsman Youth – As a compact, easy shooting shotgun, it is tough to beat the Remington 11-87 Youth. A semi-auto chambered in 20 gauge, this shotgun has a 21” barrel and a adjustable pull of length, meaning you can fit the firearm perfectly for the shooter. MSRP $804.

Federal Power-Shok 20 Gauge, #3 Buck – Full power, yet easier shooting that 12 gauge, these shells load 20 #3 buck pellets and launches them at 1200 fps. The tight patterns mean a devastating impact on any unwanted house guests. Expect to pay around $4.50 for a box of five.

Hornady Critical Defense 12 Gauge 00 Buck – Designed specifically for personal defense, these reduced recoil loads from Hornady feature eight 00 buck pellets moving at 1600 fps. Street price is about $9.50 for a box of 10.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Richard Johnson is the co-owner of GunsForSale.com.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[MurphysLaw]

SKS with Tapco conversion and WASR-10

[MiamiE]

Them WASR's are built right in Palm Beach I believe. I have had a couple problems with mine, but for the price I paid it's worth it!

[iRiSh]

Great thread.

What criteria do you have to match in the states for buying a gun?
Is it the same for say machine gun and handgun?

I have to laugh, in Ireland there is a big market for Airsoft Guns
See this site http://www.airsoftarmoury.co.uk/index.php?cPath=4_11_73

Toy guns compared to the real deal stuff in this thread

[replicant_argent]

Originally Posted by hotreds

Shotguns: The Best Felon Killing Home Defense Tool Ever Made
by Richard Johnson

A Knoxx recoil reduction stock from BLACKHAWK! significantly reduces recoil. As a former cop, I carried a shotgun in a patrol car for more than 10 years, and I state without any hesitation that the Knoxx stock is the best accessory ever designed for a combat shotgun.


Effective Tools for Felon Repellant

Remington 870, model 24591 – This is a 12 gauge shotgun built on the famous 870 action, but with a few nice upgrades. From the factory, it comes with the Knoxx recoil reducing stock, a Wilson Combat ghost ring rear sight and a XS front sight post. MSRP $986.

Mossberg 930 Home Security, model 85320 – This 12 gauge is a reasonably priced, reliable semi-auto shotgun. No frills, just business. With a 4+1 capacity, front bead sight and Mossberg ambidextrous safety, this shotgun is easy to run and easy on the wallet. MSRP $612.

Remington 11-87 Sportsman Youth – As a compact, easy shooting shotgun, it is tough to beat the Remington 11-87 Youth. A semi-auto chambered in 20 gauge, this shotgun has a 21” barrel and a adjustable pull of length, meaning you can fit the firearm perfectly for the shooter. MSRP $804.
----------------------------Richard Johnson is the co-owner of GunsForSale.com.

The Knoxx bottoms out (on your shoulder, as designed) and then dissapates felt recoil by "hinging" up (again, as designed), smacking your cheek with the bump on the end of the compression tube if you have a proper cheek weld. No thanks for me. I would rather have a sore shoulder than feel like someone punched me in the face. Maybe I don't know how to shoot a shotgun very well. Granted, I am not a shotgun guru or anything, just a regular guy, not a former cop or a uber cool security specialist (or a guy that profits from firearms sales) or anything. Maybe this dude doesn't get a firm cheek weld, or likes getting punched in the face. Don't ask, don't tell.
Interesting that all three of the shotguns recommended are well over 500 bucks, and approaching a grand. I think this guy was writing for a very specific audience...... and it isn't me, I guess.
While I agree with much of the article, (posted here:http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=42558 , correct?) kind of an interesting take on the issue, but I think he was a little myopic on a couple salient points.

http://www.humanevents.com/article.p...ment-174143933
The authors response to this comment certainly points to fear-mongering and while there may be some root truths, I also imagine he is quite happy he can reap the benefits of people panicking and purchasing some shotguns from him. Just my couple cents worth on him.

[hammondc]

Originally Posted by iRiSh

Great thread.

What criteria do you have to match in the states for buying a gun?
Is it the same for say machine gun and handgun?

I have to laugh, in Ireland there is a big market for Airsoft Guns
See this site http://www.airsoftarmoury.co.uk/index.php?cPath=4_11_73

Toy guns compared to the real deal stuff in this thread

Very little in most of the U.S. You have to have a reflection, be able to breathe and not have any Felonies. Plus some money. Concealed Carry laws vary, but they are pretty lax in most states.

[MurphysLaw]

Originally Posted by MiamiE

Them WASR's are built right in Palm Beach I believe. I have had a couple problems with mine, but for the price I paid it's worth it!

Never had a problem with mine, bought it cheap at an auction, been thinking about swapping the furniture out on it when funds allow

[357]

Originally Posted by iRiSh

Great thread.

What criteria do you have to match in the states for buying a gun?
Is it the same for say machine gun and handgun?

I have to laugh, in Ireland there is a big market for Airsoft Guns
See this site http://www.airsoftarmoury.co.uk/index.php?cPath=4_11_73

Toy guns compared to the real deal stuff in this thread

Any firearm purchase from a licensed dealer (FFL) must first submit a NIC test. National Instant Check is a federal database the FBI runs to let FFL dealers know if their potential customer is a felon (and therefore not allowed to buy a firearm). Some states do allow felons to get firearms but this is not the general rule, but a very rare exception under specific circumstances. Most felons are not even allowed to be in a home with firearms.

Anyway, any record of that NIC process is supposed to be destroyed within 24 hours. The federal gov got caught violating this law under President Clinton. Some personal sales (not from FFL dealer to customer, but person to person) do not have to be run through the NIC process, but this varies by state.

Handguns are often regulated more strictly. Again it varies by state. In Michigan you have to get a purchase permit first (process includes a background check similar to the federal one), unless you have a concealed pistol license (allowing you to carry concealed), the FFL will still run a NIC, and that handgun's serial number must be registered under your name in a statewide database. Texas and some other states do not require registration of handguns or the purchase permit process. Some districts and cities have even banned handguns, but those laws are being struck down due to a recent supreme court ruling.

Carrying is another thing altogether. Some 45+ states allow for concealed carry in some form. 40 or so have "shall issue" laws meaning that the state must grant a concealed carry permit unless they have reason not to (i.e. DUI, certain other misdemeanors, and of course felony convictions). The list of disqualifications also varies by state. I've had my Michigan concealed pistol license for almost 9 years. Michigan's permit is valid for me to carry in some 35+ states as well. Gotta love reciprocity.

Hope that is clear as mud.

[iRiSh]

Originally Posted by hammondc

Very little in most of the U.S. You have to have a reflection, be able to breathe and not have any Felonies. Plus some money. Concealed Carry laws vary, but they are pretty lax in most states.

Originally Posted by 357

Any firearm purchase from a licensed dealer (FFL) must first submit a NIC test. National Instant Check is a federal database the FBI runs to let FFL dealers know if their potential customer is a felon (and therefore not allowed to buy a firearm). Some states do allow felons to get firearms but this is not the general rule, but a very rare exception under specific circumstances. Most felons are not even allowed to be in a home with firearms.

Anyway, any record of that NIC process is supposed to be destroyed within 24 hours. The federal gov got caught violating this law under President Clinton. Some personal sales (not from FFL dealer to customer, but person to person) do not have to be run through the NIC process, but this varies by state.

Handguns are often regulated more strictly. Again it varies by state. In Michigan you have to get a purchase permit first (process includes a background check similar to the federal one), unless you have a concealed pistol license (allowing you to carry concealed), the FFL will still run a NIC, and that handgun's serial number must be registered under your name in a statewide database. Texas and some other states do not require registration of handguns or the purchase permit process. Some districts and cities have even banned handguns, but those laws are being struck down due to a recent supreme court ruling.

Carrying is another thing altogether. Some 45+ states allow for concealed carry in some form. 40 or so have "shall issue" laws meaning that the state must grant a concealed carry permit unless they have reason not to (i.e. DUI, certain other misdemeanors, and of course felony convictions). The list of disqualifications also varies by state. I've had my Michigan concealed pistol license for almost 9 years. Michigan's permit is valid for me to carry in some 35+ states as well. Gotta love reciprocity.

Hope that is clear as mud.

Thanks Bud. What Reason can an ordinary Joe give for him/Her to carry a gun around with them in their day to day lives?

[replicant_argent]

Originally Posted by iRiSh

Thanks Bud. What Reason can an ordinary Joe give for him/Her to carry a gun around with them in their day to day lives?

In a "shall issue" state, you don't need to give a reason. Part of the whole "keep and bear arms" right. No law says you can't.
There are, however usually federal or state restrictions, such as no carry inside security at an airport, in a post office, in a school or on school property (with some exeptions), in a court facility. (In my state at least.)

Worth some thought about whether the government can "grant" rights, or simply restrict them. Which gets into a philosophical discussion we can't really have here.

[357]

Originally Posted by iRiSh

Thanks Bud. What Reason can an ordinary Joe give for him/Her to carry a gun around with them in their day to day lives?

The second amendment. Funny is they actually ask you right before issuing a CPL, every single person says "Personal protection". You don't need any more of a reason. In reality our second amendment was written to keep our own federal government from oppressing us. The first attempt at organizing our nation did not include a federal government. That is how concerned our founders were of an overreaching and oppressive federal body.

The text:

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

Recent supreme court rulings have re-affirmed that this was not a right delegated to some organized body, but that the militia is the people, and hence it is an individual right. At the time of the writing of the second amendment the militia consisted of all able bodied men of at least 18 years of age.

[357]

Originally Posted by replicant_argent

Worth some thought about whether the government can "grant" rights, or simply restrict them. Which gets into a philosophical discussion we can't really have here.

Well IMO the Declaration of Independence pretty much clears that up

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

Therefore the U.S. Constitution and it's Bill of Rights do not grant rights, but rather protect them. The Constitution also specifically enumerates the powers of the federal goverment to prevent it from overreaching. Hench the 10th Amendment.

The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

[iRiSh]

Originally Posted by replicant_argent

In a "shall issue" state, you don't need to give a reason. Part of the whole "keep and bear arms" right. No law says you can't.
There are, however usually federal or state restrictions, such as no carry inside security at an airport, in a post office, in a school or on school property (with some exeptions), in a court facility. (In my state at least.)

Worth some thought about whether the government can "grant" rights, or simply restrict them. Which gets into a philosophical discussion we can't really have here.

Originally Posted by 357

The second amendment. Funny is they actually ask you right before issuing a CPL, every single person says "Personal protection". You don't need any more of a reason. In reality our second amendment was written to keep our own federal government from oppressing us. The first attempt at organizing our nation did not include a federal government. That is how concerned our founders were of an overreaching and oppressive federal body.

The text:


Recent supreme court rulings have re-affirmed that this was not a right delegated to some organized body, but that the militia is the people, and hence it is an individual right. At the time of the writing of the second amendment the militia consisted of all able bodied men of at least 18 years of age.

Thanks for Replies

[replicant_argent]

Originally Posted by 357

Well IMO the Declaration of Independence pretty much clears that up



Therefore the U.S. Constitution and it's Bill of Rights do not grant rights, but rather protect them. The Constitution also specifically enumerates the powers of the federal goverment to prevent it from overreaching. Hench the 10th Amendment.

I wouldn't argue with you. Others will, and do, and aren't necessarily right, IMO. That was my point.

[SNKBYT]

Originally Posted by replicant_argent

http://www.esmeralda.cc/
Alex is quite correct.
Also, Alex, I found some that reminded me of you, even though I obviously like the ones you have on your 1911.
http://www.gunlistings.org/missouri-...ad_on_me_never

I like the "don't tread on me" engraving...thanks Pete

[Ender]

Originally Posted by snkbyt

she carries grips for other pistols as well as 1911s

Here's my new grips from Esmeralda. I was very pleased that there is a noticeable variance from the other ones I saw here.
[IMG][/IMG]