Budding audiophile/vinyl questions

[LasciviousXXX]

Hey CA Fam!

I wanted to put up a thread with a few questions that maybe some of you audiophiles out there could answer for me. I've realized as I go along that more and more the quality of music is very important to me. I have almost 4,000 albums and really enjoy my music at all times of the day. Recently I've been trying to break into the realm of high quality headphones w/ a couple of higher end purchases, namely a pair of Sennheiser HD380 Pro's and a pair of Monster Turbine IEM's. These headphones really gave me a taste of what high quality audio can sound like and man was I impressed.

So in my quest to begin down this path I wanted some advice from the CA Fam on good places I should start to build a decent home system for listening to music. We've got the regular Home Theater in a Box system for the TV so this will be completely separate and built from the ground up.

Also, and this is difficult to admit, I've never really heard music played from a record player. I know I know, its more than likely a generational thing but I've always been raised w/ cassettes, CD's and MP3's so my experience with turntables is non-existent. I would like to change that. Although, I really have no clue what all components are necessary to start listening to record albums. I'm looking at a Rega RP1 on ebay right now but other than that what else should I look into to begin my journey into Vinyl?

Thanks for all your help!

[LasciviousXXX]

Oh.. and if anyone has any used equipment they want to sell, I'm in the freakin' market

LOL

[sam a]

i'm defiantly not the most knowlagable audiophile, but i do love me some good sound. although i am sure there are more hi-fi options out there... i had used a Tecnics SL 1200 MK2 for years with a nice tube amp that a buddy of mine built (sorry i dont know alot of details about it) and i couldn't have been happier. for headphones i've listened on a nice set of grados a few times and i gotta say i think those are the bees knees. somebody with more technical knowledge can probably chime in help you out more. and i'd be interested in learning more myself.

[LasciviousXXX]

Most Grado's have received excellent ratings so good job on those! Thanks for the info on the Tecnics.

[T.G]

Answers are going to be as varied as the posters, my recommendation is to find a legitimate high end vendor in your area and explore their various listening rooms and combinations. Don't be in a rush to purchase, do your research, don't get bullied into buying something and don't fall into the mentality trap of "everything has to be from the same manufacturer".

As for turntables, I got rid of my old Marantz reference turntable (don't remember the model #, it was from the late 70's or early 80's IIRC), record cleaners, phono pre-amps, styli, etc because it was just too much of PITA to me to store the records in proper temperatures and humidity along with vacuum clean a record before play and all that crap when often I wouldn't make the time to just sit there and listen, but rather be doing something else while it was playing. Oh, and the inability to loan/borrow records unless it's from/with someone who uses the same stylus and ideally player as not to damage the groves. All too much headache for me - I wanted to enjoy the music, not be restricted by it.

[replicant_argent]

With the technology of today, going from digital tracks to LPs is the equivalent of carving your own granite for perfomance tires, isn't it? Taking a very close and accurate recording and translating it to a mechanical and error prone and wearable media? It doesn't make sense to me. Nostalgia aside, I don't think you gain anything. Someone was just telling me the other day some studios still record on magnetic tape and then take that to digitally master the CD? Again... I must be doing logic backwards.
It would make sense to me to take a current LP inventory and use one of the MP3 conversion turntables to make digital copies to listen to. Storing the albums as an "original and primary backup" so to speak. Easily damaged, high maintenance items, those. For the conservation of the collection that makes sense to me, anyway.

[LasciviousXXX]

Thanks for the responses guys! Much appreciated. Adam, I am going to be heading down to a few local shops to do some listening and see what I like. Just like w/ cigars I will be doing a fair amount of research before any decisions are made but it is nice to hear what people have used and liked. Gives me a basis of comparison

Pete, while I agree with you in theory I want both the experience of vinyl as well as the ability to listen to the variation in the music itself. Most vinyl enthusiasts mention the warmer sounds and more accurate soundstage when comparing vinyl to digital. I totally understand where you're coming from though. Most of my digital music is in FLAC or 320 format so I am always going for the high quality digital sound as well.

[sam a]

Originally Posted by replicant_argent

With the technology of today, going from digital tracks to LPs is the equivalent of carving your own granite for perfomance tires, isn't it? Taking a very close and accurate recording and translating it to a mechanical and error prone and wearable media? It doesn't make sense to me. Nostalgia aside, I don't think you gain anything. Someone was just telling me the other day some studios still record on magnetic tape and then take that to digitally master the CD. Again... I must be doing logic backwards.

agreed... but i do think that the process itself can be the reward. nothing necessarily gained in regards to clarity of sound... and it can be a PITA for sure but analog can be fun and there is a certain warmth that it provides

[replicant_argent]

I don't buy into the whole "warmth" thing. I have heard the "warmth" argument many times, but I look at that as one of two things, the amp or speakers altering the signal to something that pleases you aurally, or simple self fulfilling prophecy and you "feel" that it sounds better. It's a needle vibrating in a trench. I can't logically see how that contributes anything but possible noise. Call me a cynical bastid, lol. I am by no means an "audiophile" compared with some who think they can hear the violin tuning pegs loosening in a certain passage, but look at it somewhat dispassionately. Some recordings suck, some sound engineers should never have jobs, and some musicians could be worse or better, or their instruments aren't up to their talent or what I want to hear. Subjectivity running rampant and the world keeps a-turnin', Bro.


Why am I rambling? Oh yeah.. that third pot of coffee. That will do it.





How do you store that many albums? My folks had several hundred as I recall my childhood, and they don't take well to mishandling or mis-storage of any type, as I remember, having er.... uh.... made the demise of a few.

[replicant_argent]

Oh, you say "Vinyl Enthusiasts"


Are their dim-witted cousins called "8-Track Enthusiasts"?




ker-CHUNK


(Not trying to be a Contrarian or a Negative Nelly, Tyr, just typing my thoughts, as stupid as they tend to be. I do hope you enjoy your tunes!)

[T.G]

Pete - the studios recording on multi-track magnetic tape is actually fairly common and done intentionally for a few reasons. Remember, most studio recordings are done by placing mics in front of the stacks and not direct connects into the musicians amps which, aside from synths/keyboards would still be an analog signal in most cases, so going to tape isn't really a big deal, plus, when converting to digital later, you get much higher quality by doing multi-pass conversions that can't be achieved in real-time.

Most of those USB MP3 turntables suck ass. You're much better off with a good turntable, sound card and a copy of protools.

[replicant_argent]

Originally Posted by T.G

Pete - the studios recording on multi-track magnetic tape is actually fairly common and done intentionally for a few reasons. Remember, most studio recordings are done by placing mics in front of the stacks and not direct connects into the musicians amps which, aside from synths/keyboards would still be an analog signal in most cases, so going to tape isn't really a big deal, plus, when converting to digital later, you get much higher quality by doing multi-pass conversions that can't be achieved in real-time.

Most of those USB MP3 turntables suck ass. You're much better off with a good turntable, sound card and a copy of protools.

Yep, I follow you, and (back in the 80's) have spent some time in studios in the MPLS area. It is a very odd world. Here is also hoping that technology (mp3 T/T) jumps by leaps and bounds, as does everything else in this amazing world of ours.

[LasciviousXXX]

Ah, let me clarify. When I said 4,000 albums I was referring to my digital music collection. I don't actually own a single vinyl album itself. Which I am hoping to remedy.

Ok, first... less coffee HAHA

The warmth factor, according my moderately in-depth research, has more to do with natural sound itself rather than subjective hearing preference. Main differences being the separate sound waves between digital and analog sounds. Since original sound itself is inherently analog in nature, any digital recording of said sounds are not represented wholly since they are not capturing the entire sound wave.

The "trench" itself is a direct copy of the original sound's wave form. A lossless copy if you will. A digital recording of the sound will, by default, be unable to duplicate the entire soundstage of the original music. So you're already at a disadvantage in that arena. Think of it like making a copy of a copy of a cd. Since the copy is already losing sound quality (lossy), you're just further compounding the problem by burning it again. The same principle from what I have gathered so far.

This is of course just as I understand it from the limited research I have done.

[LasciviousXXX]

Originally Posted by replicant_argent

Are their dim-witted cousins called "8-Track Enthusiasts"?

Nah, they're just called dumbasses

[BloodSpite]

Personally I love vinyl. I have probably 100 albums and I can pick them up for nearly pennies at second hand shops and thrift stores easily

I have a old Fisher MT-720. Has phenomenal sound, and has served me faithfully for years.

I even record my vinyl to CD so I get the white noise effect when I drive

Be happy to help anyway I can but good luck in this endeavor I think you'll find it very refreshing!

[T.G]

Originally Posted by replicant_argent

I don't buy into the whole "warmth" thing. I have heard the "warmth" argument many times, but I look at that as one of two things, the amp or speakers altering the signal to something that pleases you aurally, or simple self fulfilling prophecy and you "feel" that it sounds better. It's a needle vibrating in a trench. I can't logically see how that contributes anything but possible noise. Call me a cynical bastid, lol. I am by no means an "audiophile" compared with some who think they can hear the violin tuning pegs loosening in a certain passage, but look at it somewhat dispassionately. Some recordings suck, some sound engineers should never have jobs, and some musicians could be worse or better, or their instruments aren't up to their talent or what I want to hear. Subjectivity running rampant and the world keeps a-turnin', Bro.


Why am I rambling? Oh yeah.. that third pot of coffee. That will do it.





How do you store that many albums? My folks had several hundred as I recall my childhood, and they don't take well to mishandling or mis-storage of any type, as I remember, having er.... uh.... made the demise of a few.

The warmth argument is basically bunk unless you have an entirely analog system. If you have a turntable, connected to a tube pre-amp then to tube amps (McIntosh anyone?), then it has some validity because you are 100% analog, but running a record player output through a digital switcher/selector as many systems use with internal A-D and D-A back again conversion, to a solid state amp, yeah, right, any perceived "warmth" is simply the more limited range of sound reproduction from the vinyl.

[replicant_argent]

Originally Posted by T.G

The warmth argument is basically bunk unless you have an entirely analog system. If you have a turntable, connected to a tube pre-amp then to tube amps (McIntosh anyone?), then it has some validity because you are 100% analog, but running a record player output through a digital switcher/selector as many systems use with internal A-D and D-A back again conversion, to a solid state amp, yeah, right, any perceived "warmth" is simply the more limited range of sound reproduction from the vinyl.

But are the digital copies purchased from a B&M better than iTunes and Amazon or not, Mr. Smartypants?

(I know you will actually give me a valid answer about rates and encoding now, right? )

^^^ Joke.... Joke.......

[LasciviousXXX]

iTunes = low quality sadness

[sam a]

honestly all great points... i kinda think of it like using a torch vs. matches or cedar spill. sure a torch is easier, cleaner, and just generally more effective (and i personally use one most of the time), but i am not necessarily looking for effective in my hobbies or passions. alot of the time i'm just looking for an outlet for my geek tendencies and sometimes the least efficient way of doing things is the most meditative or something... i dunno. is it just placebo? maybe... is it nostalgia? probably... is it enjoyable? to some hugely. (FWIW i recorded a good portion of my newest record on a reel to reel... just because i like tinkering and i am aware that that was probably a dumb idea, but it sure was fun)

[mosesbotbol]

It's nice to deal with an audio shop that will let you borrow speakers to check out. My vinyl buddies are big into Linn audio products which is pretty nice stuff. Check them out.

http://www.linn.co.uk/