Vegan dog food?!?!?!?!

[massphatness]

My dog likes carrots as an occassional snack.

Her diet is primarily meat-based protien though.

[babybob2k]

I think switching a dog to a vegan diet is irresponsible at the very least.

I think dog's are pretty crafty, and can take care of a fair amount of things themselves. If I took all meat away from mine, I'd be waking up a few times during the night to make sure my leg was still there. I hope these vegans have small dogs with dull teeth.......

[OLS]

Funny thing about dogs is they are SO Monkey-see, Monkey-do when it comes to food.
Some things they could CARE LESS about until they see a human eating it.

I had a Satsuma tree in my back yard as a kid, and we would go up and pick one off the
tree and start peeling and munching away, just as sweet as honey. So one day we start to
see them on the ground, smashed and reamed out, and our dog was biting them off the
tree and busting them up and eating them. When some dogs see you eating citrus, they
get that 'left out' look, then you give them a slice and they lick it and look back at you
like, "NO, I want THAT! That thing you're eating". doofi

[Blueface]

While they come in different meat types such as chicken, lamb, beef, turkey and sardine and on and on, and I give him all, here is the chicken as an example.
It contains lots of veggies but the main ingredient and focus is raw meat.
Nothing too good for my best friend.
He is slim and trim.
His coat is healthy.
He is a 13 year old that has the energy of a puppy.

So, while primarily meat based, this diet does contain a large aspect of "veggies" as I come to think of it.

Ingredients: Chicken, Chicken Necks, Ground Chicken Bones, Chicken Hearts, Organic Kale, Organic Carrots, Organic Yams, Chicken Livers, Organic Broccoli, Organic Apples, Organic Ground Flaxseed, Cranberries, Organic Apple Cider Vinegar, Organic Parsley, Organic Coconut Oil, Organic Kelp, Alfalfa, Mixed Tocopherols (source of vitamin E).

[Blueface]

From my vet's website regarding this subject of veggie only diet for dogs.
Interesting article.
He clearly does not support it.
He is a great doc that helped me tremendously with my Maltese when he first got cancer.


Vegetarian Feeding of Dogs and Cats
Many of the clients in my practice are strict vegetarians. Their reasons range from an interest in natural health care to concern for cruelty to animals. This lifestyle has proven tremendously beneficial for them and the natural assumption is that a similar nutritional approach would benefit their dogs and cats as well. Personally, I am against feeding vegetarian foods to dogs and cats. My reason is clear and simple - dogs and cats are carnivores! I know that many purveyors of pet products like to paint dogs as omnivores, but their teeth and digestive system are clearly those of a carnivore. If that isn't enough, an hour or two watching nature programs will convince all but the most brainwashed individuals that canines eat an animal based diet.

The reason many people claim that dogs are not strict carnivores is that there is no KNOWN nutrient that a canine cannot obtain or synthesize from plant ingredients. This is a tenuous argument at best. It is only arrogance that leads anyone to believe that he or she knows every nutrient that is needed by any species. It was just a few years ago that the necessity of taurine in the feline diet was discovered. In addition, the fact that the body can manufacture a nutrient does not indicate that a dietary source of that nutrient is not necessary. Perhaps the body's daily need is greater than it can produce. Recent studies bear this out. It has been found that while dogs can manufacture the amino acid carnitine from dietary ingredients, they also urinate out a larger quantity of carnitine than was previously thought. Without a dietary source of carnitine, it is very difficult for a dog to have adequate levels available for healthy muscle function. Carnitine is only found in animal tissues! In felines, the amino acid taurine is a necessary dietary component; it, too, is only found in animal tissue. While both of these amino acids are available as synthetic supplements, I don't believe that is anywhere near the same quality as obtained in a natural diet. There a number of other nutrients known to be necessary for felines such as active vitamin A (which they cannot synthesize at all), which are only found in animal tissues. Perhaps in the future, such nutrients will be discovered for dogs, as well.

Another problem with using vegetarian diets is not what is lacking but what they actually contain. Vegetarian recipes consist mostly of vegetables, grains and soy products. By nature, carnivores eat virtually no grains or soy products. These foods are very high in carbohydrates which are almost unheard of in the wild carnivore's diet. Metabolically, carnivores are not designed to use carbohydrates in such a large quantity. The result is a weakening of the health of the animal and an increased tendency to obesity. I also believe the high carbohydrate content of pet foods (vegetarian or not) leads to dental problems, too.

So why do a growing number of people recommend vegetarian diets for dogs and cats? There are several reasons:

1) Ignorance of their true nature and needs

2) Having an agenda to convert all people and animals to vegetarianism for animals rights reasons

3) Capitalizing monetarily on people following #2.

4) Knowing an animal that has done well on a vegetarian diet

Numbers one, two and three above are self explanatory. Number four may seem contradictory to what I have been saying. Let me try to clarify why a pet's symptoms may improve on a vegetarian diet. When animal protein is cooked as it is in pet food production, they become far more difficult to digest and are more irritating to the immune system. This can result in symptoms such as digestive problems, skin eruptions and a variety of others that may be labeled as a food allergy or a myriad of other diagnoses. When the offending protein is removed from the diet, the symptoms improve. I believe it is the absence of the offending protein not the presence of the vegetarian ingredients that results in the reduction of symptoms. Unfortunately, the lack of proper protein is likely to rear its head later in terms of other health problems. I have yet to see a vegetarian dog or cat that looked as good as a healthy, meat fed one. I know that there are many people out there who have a story to tell about a vegetarian pet who lived to be very old. There are exceptions to every rule, but I wouldn't risk my pet's life on it.

Please take note that I am not insensitive to the problem of animal suffering in the factory farm environment. As a veterinarian, I have seen it personally. The problem is that if a dog or cat is being fed a vegetarian diet, then that animal is likely to suffer as a result of malnutrition. With either a meat based or vegetable based diet, animal suffering will occur. Do we have the moral right to force our carnivores to suffer on a vegetarian diet because we have made a personal choice for our own lifestyle? For many people, this is a very difficult decision and there is no perfect answer.

Russell Swift, DVM, HMC

[357]

Many people think giving dogs/cats animal bones is bad or dangerous. In reality it can be true, of cooked bones. They are hard, brittle, and sharp when broken. This can cause injury in your pet. When chicken bones are raw, they are softer and fine for most dogs to eat. In fact in many countries where "pet food" is not readily available most dogs eat nothing but raw chicken bones.

[kaisersozei]

Originally Posted by Blueface

When animal protein is cooked as it is in pet food production, they become far more difficult to digest and are more irritating to the immune system. This can result in symptoms such as digestive problems, skin eruptions and a variety of others that may be labeled as a food allergy or a myriad of other diagnoses. When the offending protein is removed from the diet, the symptoms improve. I believe it is the absence of the offending protein not the presence of the vegetarian ingredients that results in the reduction of symptoms.

Thanks for this article, my vet feels the same--the piece I quoted relates to problems that we've encountered with our pug (who acts more like a cat than a dog, anyway.) He couldn't tolerate beef, chicken or lamb for some reason, so the vet experimented with all kinds of diet modifications. Went through a vegan/grain heavy diet for awhile then offered the option of adding in one of the following types of animal protein: duck, pork, fish and kangaroo. We went with kangaroo, and he's now eating like a champ.

Originally Posted by kaisersozei

Thanks for this article, my vet feels the same--the piece I quoted relates to problems that we've encountered with our pug (who acts more like a cat than a dog, anyway.) He couldn't tolerate beef, chicken or lamb for some reason, so the vet experimented with all kinds of diet modifications. Went through a vegan/grain heavy diet for awhile then offered the option of adding in one of the following types of animal protein: duck, pork, fish and kangaroo. We went with kangaroo, and he's now eating like a champ.

Where, might I ask, does one obtain Kangaroo meat? And is it fit for human consumption lol

[Blueface]

Originally Posted by kaisersozei

Thanks for this article, my vet feels the same--the piece I quoted relates to problems that we've encountered with our pug (who acts more like a cat than a dog, anyway.) He couldn't tolerate beef, chicken or lamb for some reason, so the vet experimented with all kinds of diet modifications. Went through a vegan/grain heavy diet for awhile then offered the option of adding in one of the following types of animal protein: duck, pork, fish and kangaroo. We went with kangaroo, and he's now eating like a champ.

If you want to read up some more on his thoughts, here is his site:
www.therightremedy.com

[jledou]

my beagle will eat most fruits and vegetables sans peas, broccoli and green beans (see a theme there) but he will turn his nose up at any of them if there is the option for a hot dog, sausage, hamburger, steak, etc.

[Blueface]

Originally Posted by jledou

my beagle will eat most fruits and vegetables sans peas, broccoli and green beans (see a theme there) but he will turn his nose up at any of them if there is the option for a hot dog, sausage, hamburger, steak, etc.

Wait and see if you give him a raw diet.
Whenever I am grilling steaks or making burgers, that dog is patiently waiting for his raw patty to be served.
80/20, 90/10, filet, sirloin, he just plain doesn't care.

[Subvet642]

I've even read of people feeding their cats whole prey animals; fur, feathers and all.

Originally Posted by Subvet642

I've even read of people feeding their cats whole prey animals; fur, feathers and all.

My cats find there own prey lol... they actually eat a lot of mice and moles. It's the worst when i find a half eaten mouse in the house. Well worse, is when I dont find the half eaten mouse until I can smell it

[Subvet642]

YUM!

[shark]

Originally Posted by Nefari0us

My cats find there own prey lol... they actually eat a lot of mice and moles. It's the worst when i find a half eaten mouse in the house. Well worse, is when I dont find the half eaten mouse until I can smell it

Wait until one of them walks up to you with a beheaded rat in its mouth, and drops it at your feet.

I agree, though. Dogs and cats are carnivores, NOT vegetarians. Humans, though, are omnivores.

[shilala]

Originally Posted by jledou

my beagle will eat most fruits and vegetables sans peas, broccoli and green beans (see a theme there) but he will turn his nose up at any of them if there is the option for a hot dog, sausage, hamburger, steak, etc.

My lab would eat anything. He'd even pick his own berries when we went berry picking, once I showed him how to do it. Before that, he'd just wait and beg.
If he dragged dinner home, it wasn't normally a basket of apples, it was a rib cage or a nice hind quarter.
That's probably a pretty good argument to preference, too.

[akumushi]

Reminds me of this Futurama.

[justonemorestick]

Originally Posted by akumushi

Reminds me of this Futurama.

That was just the episode I was thinking about.

I personally feed my Dane dry kibble lamb and rice and he seems to be doing great 28"+ and over 75lbs at 6 months. My rott had a fatty tumor and when I got away from a corm based feed it is reducing without any intervention. So is important to feed a dog proper food rather than some goofy new age vegan diet.

[Volt]

Mine loves meat - cats, squirrels, wabbits.... What ever is dumb enough to try a mad dash accross the backyard.

[mosesbotbol]

We started making sweet potato dog treats in our food dehydrator that Camber likes. Costs next to nothing too.

I feed her big bones like pork shoulder or lamb leg, but watch while she is chewing so she doesn't choke or hurt herself.