Lets talk about the Swine flu...

[Starscream]

Originally Posted by icehog3

I am already a Vampire...so then maybe it will cure me?

Garlic flu?

Originally Posted by hotreds

[hotreds]

Originally Posted by illinoishoosier

BRAAAAIIIIINNNNSSSSS!!!!

So THAT'S what happened to that girl I dated in high school! She still looks young!

Loving this thread...

Originally Posted by Blueface

This subject fascinates me.
Every year, 36,000 Americans die from the seasonal flu.
So far this year, 1,000 have died from Swine.

Of course it is no consolation to those that died from it, but 1,000 is barely a pandemic as compared to what normally happens annually from a regular flu.

This is nuts!!!

Totally agree.

Originally Posted by BC-Axeman

My granddaughter just got over her two day bout with swine flu. It did slow her down a bit. I think I have already had it and had very little symptoms, as I have been repeatedly exposed to it. I had a slight headache a few days ago and have been a little sore, but that's not unusual. I have seen some people hit pretty hard for three or four days. Seems like a mild flu, over all.

Yeah, I think this has been around long before the 'craze'.

Originally Posted by icehog3

I heard it turns people into zombies.

Originally Posted by sikk50

Not to go political, but just to relate to
what you said one of my professors claims it was fabricated to push the healthcare reform.

Interesting....I doubt it but who knows.

There is WAY too much hype over a nothing flu.

But again, we did it for our baby....figure better safe than sorry. I'm still kicking myself for the EIGHT HOURS though. Damn.

And damn the media. Cover something worthy already!

Swine flu still in the news? what a waste of time.

Originally Posted by AdamC

Swine flu still in the news? what a waste of time.

Adam, it kinda reminds me of what inspired this nifty little game: http://www.balloonboygame.com/

[Skywalker]

Originally Posted by icehog3

I heard it turns people into zombies.

With a username like "Icehog", I'd be worried!!!

Originally Posted by mrreindeer

Adam, it kinda reminds me of what inspired this nifty little game: http://www.balloonboygame.com/

Stupid seagulls.

haha

[Conch Republican]

Originally Posted by mrreindeer

Adam, it kinda reminds me of what inspired this nifty little game: http://www.balloonboygame.com/

That's awesome!

[icehog3]

Originally Posted by Skywalker

With a username like "Icehog", I'd be worried!!!

Nah Darrell, I just keep it in the family.

What a lot of people don't realize is that much of the real concern regarding this flu is that it is only a small number of mutations away from something that could wreak havoc on the population. Given the propensity for the flu to mutate (its a horribly unregulated genetic reproducer, compared to most other virus genomes...that's why there is a yearly vaccine vs only one vaccine for chicken pox, as chicken pox is genetically stable), its not unreasonable for H1N1 to change into a real killer and then it will be too late to enact immunizations. Meanwhile, the normal seasonal flu probably has a similar mortality rate to it as H1N1, its genetic markers are too far removed from the Spanish Flu to likely be much threat in mutating into that killer.

The caution shouldn't be regarding what H1N1 is, but what it could become. That said, it is reasonable to take precautions seriously. But, rash decisions, panic, sensationalization should not be part of the equation. But, it seems that the media only knows one way to sell commercials.

Originally Posted by Cyanide

Meanwhile, the normal seasonal flu probably has a similar mortality rate to it as H1N1, its genetic markers are too far removed from the Spanish Flu to likely be much threat in mutating into that killer.

The caution shouldn't be regarding what H1N1 is, but what it could become. That said, it is reasonable to take precautions seriously. But, rash decisions, panic, sensationalization should not be part of the equation. But, it seems that the media only knows one way to sell commercials.

That was very interesting. H1N1 has been the prevalent strain for many years. It is the Spanish Flu everyone is worried about. Any flu has just as much chance to mutate into a killer as H1N1 does, but H1N1 has done it before in our limited memory, therefore the heightened fear of it. Just human nature at work.
I am more worried about AIDS mutating into an airborne or contact strain. Or ebola related viruses getting loose.

BTW, what ever happened to SARS?

Interesting BC-Axeman....

In my field of work I have to gather large amounts of information from many fields and then, based on a number of "short-cut" approaches, evaluate and implement that information. This system usually works quite well, but that is largely due to a safety-net built into my method. That safety-net just means delving deeper into the research when need be, to a variable level.

I had formed a fairly useful opinion on the H1N1. It was that "the virus is no more deadly now, but it could get more deadly, it is reasonable to protect from it". The minimal genetic drift concept was given to me by an internist and it seemed to work within my set opinion. Your challenge made me look deeper and I am having a hard time justifying that viewpoint.

Most interesting at this point is a review of the genetic sequence of the swine flu virus that shows that a particular virulence factor, protein PB1-F2, believed by some to play an important role in determining illness severity and risk of complications (secondary bacterial pneumonia), is blocked by maybe two stop-codons and then a mutation from serine to asparagine. So, a whole lot of genetic rearrangement would be needed to cause that to happen.

Of course, this would be to assume that the PB1-F2 protein is important in prospective pandemic versions of human infecting virus (as opposed to animal model research or retrospective analysis), and that PB1-F2 is (a)/(the only) important determiner of illness severity (which is severely near-sighted viewpoint).

None the less, thank you....it would seem that you may have helped me find a weakness in my information at a crucial time, helping me correct that deficiency. What is your background?

All that said, I trust in vaccines. Vaccines and the birth control pill; arguably the biggest and best medical discoveries of all time. Every illness I can prevent, is a battle won before it ever started.

Cheers

John

[Thrak]

Originally Posted by Cyanide

All that said, I trust in vaccines. Vaccines and the birth control pill; arguably the biggest and best medical discoveries of all time. Every illness I can prevent, is a battle won before it ever started.

Cheers

John

Even if the vaccine you trust could cause life altering neurological damage? Or if the vaccine itself could be responsible for more deaths than the affliction you're trying to protect yourself from? Not to get political, but dont you find it disheartening that world leaders arent getting the vaccine, and if they are, its a different one thats offered to you and I?

Scary stuff....

Well, that does sound fairly conspiracy theory-like. I would want some proof before I believed that. Being a military doc, I have not heard of any "special vaccines". Considering we are the ones that deal directly with our political leaders on frequent occassion, I would have expected some information to come my way. I got the vaccine yesterday. And I don't believe this is going to result in any neurological damage. That probably refers to the chicken pox vaccine developed in the 1970's. Hey, live and learn I guess. If you have humans in the algorithm, expect occassional human errors. Its pretty unlikely that a botch-job like that vaccine will ever happen again.

I hope you aren't talking about the mercury in the thimerosal causing autism myth. That has been repeated and thoroughly debunked on every possible level. Quite frankly, too much good money was wasted disproving that over and over again. Money that could have been used to further other medical research. The only ones sticking to it are the crack-pots.

Beyond that, the only mentionable risk is Guillian Barre Syndrome. Over 90% of that completely recovers, the high high high majority of cases are sporadic and can't be pegged to any particular trigger, and probably occurs more sporadically than anything else. I would certainly fear the complications of a nasty flu than I would the GBS. But, that boils down to likelihood ratios (its far more likely to get a bacterial pneumonia secondary from getting swine flu than it would getting GBS from the vaccine)

[Thrak]

German officials getting alternative vaccine...
http://www.spiegel.de/international/...656028,00.html

President Obama saying his daughters wont get the vaccine, and he hasnt gotten the H1N1 either.

The swine flu vaccine in the 70's killed more people than the swine flu did.

I've also read that people who get yearly flu vaccines are more likely to contract the H1N1 variant and it is more aggressive in them, compared to those who do not get a yearly flu vaccine.

This guy thinks its no good, he seems to know a little bit on the vaccine in the 70's.
http://blogs.browardpalmbeach.com/ju...nyder_argu.php


Are you guys getting the SmithKline vaccine up there?

Oh man Cyanide, you just reminded me of a holy ^%$# moment from years ago.

We were on the ground in Saudi back during DS when we got our vaccine "updates".

They started that evening after dinner chow. The following morning, TWO guys had Bell's Palsy.

Guess how many guys showed up after Breakfast for their shots???

OK, hold on....I think I know what you are talking about. True, there are two versions of the vaccine. One has an addjuvant, one does not. Long and the short of it, I would take the adjuvant version (I did) over the non-adjuvant version. The adjuvant version is probably more effective, but there is always some anxiety over giving adjuvant to pregnant women....just like I wouldn't want to give certain drugs to pregnant women, largely to avoid a perceived risk vs a real risk. I call it "rational medical caution".

And, we really have to get away from the fear of the medical past. You know, the high majority of us in the health industry are trying to learn from past mistakes, are trying as hard as possible to improve lives, and really believe in what we are doing. There really isn't nearly as much conspiracy and profiteering as you want to believe. There are much easier ways to get rich than in medicine.

As for the rest of your post........well, for purposes of forum happiness, I am going to not touch those many kettles of fish.

And hey, Tobii3...what can I say. There are risks to everything. There is risks to eating your supper tonight. If I told you about how many people choked and died on steak every night....would you stop eating steak? I could tell a pretty compelling story. But it would be just that....one story. If I balanced it with the millions of stories of all the people that enjoyed their steaks tonight, would you find that one story of choking as compelling?

Still, despite the frequently told few cases of disaster (I use the word "few" here for illustration of volumes, not to belittle those tragedies) I still stand behind the MILLIONS of untold cases of success. I still believe the risks of the virus far exceed the risks of the vaccine. I can't tell the future, I can't avoid the inevitable, but I can make decisions to hedge my bets against tragedy.

Oh no, Cyanide, the Bells palsy was totally unrelated - but the pucker factor went through the roof!!!!

&^%$....just seeing someone with Bell's Palsy freaks most people out...having it happen the night they started giving boosters?? Priceless.