College Hoops Thread '09-'10

[The Poet]

All you Kentucky fans seem focused on John Wall, and understandably so. The kid has had a great start to his (likely short) college career, and will probably have a fine NBA career also, and soon. Yet to me, looking from the outside, the bigger question is that other John you brought in - namely, Calipari. UK fans are not happy unless they win it all, and Cal was paid a king's ransom to do just that. The issue is, which will he do first - win a championship, or land Kentucky on probation? I figure it's about a tossup. No offense, but there it is.

[Clampdown]

Originally Posted by The Poet

All you Kentucky fans seem focused on John Wall, and understandably so. The kid has had a great start to his (likely short) college career, and will probably have a fine NBA career also, and soon. Yet to me, looking from the outside, the bigger question is that other John you brought in - namely, Calipari. UK fans are not happy unless they win it all, and Cal was paid a king's ransom to do just that. The issue is, which will he do first - win a championship, or land Kentucky on probation? I figure it's about a tossup. No offense, but there it is.

I love when fans who have no clue about what happened talk about this issue. First, at UMASS Camby accepted money from a booster. Now, this would be the same as blaming a parent when the kid goes away and gets too drunk and passes out. The parent can only do so much and can't control the kids actions once they step outside the door. So is it his fault that a player on his own time accepted money? And by the way, guess who reported the violations when he heard about them, yep Calipari.

Now, on to Memphis. The player took an SAT test while a high schooler. Yet, you're going to blame Calipari for that, when he wasn't even a member of the team? Please, get real. The NCAA ok'd the player when he was recruited then more info came out and they put Memphis on probation. The NCAA stated that Calipari had ZERO involvement in the violations, yet you and other's who have no idea of what happened will jump on the bandwagon to tar and feather the guy.

So, the two incidents you brought up never implicated Calipari with the probation and in fact in the UMASS instance he brought to light the violations for the NCAA. No offense, but there it really is.

[The Poet]

Keep telling yourself, Brian, that smoke means no fire - until the house burns down. As is typical of a blindered fan (regardless of team colors), methinks thou doest protest too predictably. After all, Calipari had nothing to do with Wall's illegal involvement with his AAU coach, but this matter was known well enough that other coachs choose not to recruit him despite his skills. Cal has no such scruples - and there it really truly is. The buck stops with the head coach, as it should.

Back to the games. That Florida State/Auburn game was a good one, with the Seminoles prevailing 76-72. Two other scores were interesting, in that both LSU and N.C.State dodged bullets - the Tigers beat Nicholls State 63-60, and the Wolfpack beat Elon 79-76. But there's nothing going on tonight, almost at all. The only game I see that might be good is Pacific vs. St. Mary's - and who really cares about these two?

But tomorrow there is a full lineup of games involving ranked teams - and a few of them may even be good games:

# 1 Kansas vs. Michigan = Like this one, though I expect the Jayhawks to prevail.
# 2 Texas vs. UNC = And this one, if Carolina does not disappear for ten minutes like they did against Syracuse and Kentucky.
# 3 Kentucky vs. Austin Peay = But not this one, which should be over by the half.
# 4 Purdue vs. Ball State = Or this one, although Purdue seems to me a weak # 4.
# 5 Syracuse vs. St. Bonaventure = Ibid.
# 6 West Virginia vs. Cleveland State = Ibid ibid.
# 7 Duke vs. # 15 Gonzaga = Opposite, as the personnel here match up pretty well.
# 8 Villanova vs. Fordham = No contest.
# 9 Tennessee vs. USC = A better matchup on the gridiron than the hardwood.
# 11 Georgetown vs. ODU = Don't be shocked if this is a good game here.
# 12 Michigan State vs. IPFW = WTF??
# 13 Florida vs. Richmond = The Spiders may just bite the Gators.
# 16 Texas Tech vs. Wichita State = Ehh, there's worse games than this one.
# 17 Kansas Statre vs. Alabama = Or this one.
# 18 Ohio State vs. Delaware State = However, THIS one . . . .
# 19 New Mexico vs. Creighton = Not the best test to see if the Lobos are for real, but not a walkover either.
# 20 Mississippi vs. Centenary = I'd say this IS a walkover, but Ole Miss seems lost lately.
# 21 Butler vs. Xavier = Hey, here's a fun game for you. Two good mid-majors dook it out.
# 23 Texas A&M vs. The Citadel = Aggies will win, but may be closer than you'd expect.
# 24 Washington vs. Portland = A former brief # 25 takes on a sinking # 24. On PAPER, a decent game, if anybody cares
# 25 Cincinnati vs. Lipscomb = Even if the Bearcats totally dominate, that won't save their ranking.

I'd also like to mention one game between two teams that have played quite well and gotten little love except from me. Temple and Seton Hall square off, for what may just get one of them into the polls. But whatever - the polls still mean squat, so just enjoy for the sake of enjoyment.

Originally Posted by The Poet

True, Jim Boeheim appears to have a better squad than what experts expected before the season started, but despite their success so far I cannot see them playing on three consecutive weekends come March.

We must agree to disagree then pistols at noon at 10 paces.

Of all of the teams so far, Syracuse has been the most impressive. I mean they've STOMPED 3 top 15 ranked teams already. Not just beaten, but embarrased them.

That doesn't happen by accident, and it's unlikely to be done by a team that's just a flash in the pan or just on a hot streak.

[The Poet]

Originally Posted by Resipsa

We must agree to disagree then pistols at noon at 10 paces.

Of all of the teams so far, Syracuse has been the most impressive. I mean they've STOMPED 3 top 15 ranked teams already. Not just beaten, but embarrased them.

That doesn't happen by accident, and it's unlikely to be done by a team that's just a flash in the pan or just on a hot streak.

They have played very well so far, and may indeed continue to do so. And Boeheim is, I will readily admit, not nearly the whiner he used to be, whether to do with greater age or greater success and respect. I confess there are some top programs with which I have my problems, but my "problems" with the Orangemen are much more picayune and mundane than with others, so I do not wish them ill. If they manage to maintain their high level of play they could go far in the NCAA tourney, and I'd not cry if they do so.

[Clampdown]

Originally Posted by The Poet

Keep telling yourself, Brian, that smoke means no fire - until the house burns down. As is typical of a blindered fan (regardless of team colors), methinks thou doest protest too predictably. After all, Calipari had nothing to do with Wall's illegal involvement with his AAU coach, but this matter was known well enough that other coachs choose not to recruit him despite his skills. Cal has no such scruples - and there it really truly is. The buck stops with the head coach, as it should.

Not a blindered fand (not sure what that means, blinded perhaps?). I'm a graduate of the University of Kentucky and a fan of every UK sports program. Therefore, when you attack my university and spread blatant lies about it, I will speak up. However, if we do something wrong, I will be right there wanting answers.

I brought up both instances when you stated he cheated and yet you come back with once again nothing. Please, tell me when Calipari was put on probation by the NCAA or was ever implicated in any wrongdoing? You honestly expect a coach to be held responsible when a sports agent gives money to a college player to seek favor. With this mentality then every coach should be suspended or blamed when a player gets a DUI, flunks a class, uses illegal drugs. Please, these are adults and are expected to act accordingly when they are on their own. Shouldn't the blame be placed on the player who knowingly broke the rules for their own personal gain?

And once again let me set the record straight because you are wrong about the recruitment of Wall. John Wall was recruited by Roy Williams but he (Williams) backed off because of a strained relationship Williams had with Wall's AAU coach. There were questions about John Wall's eligibility after his coach paid $800 for travel expenses, which John Wall repaid. Wall chose Memphis over other universities because of the offensive mentality implemented by Calipari, not because of some backroom deal struch between the coach and player. The NCAA looked at the issue (Wall and his AAU coach), suspended John Wall for two games and the issue is dead. If there was something there then don't you think the NCAA would do everything in it's power to go after Wall, Calipari and UK. So, there was a little smoke, and unfortunately for your pitchfork brigade, there was no fire.

When Calipari is found guilty by the NCAA of any rules violations, then you can attack the man's character until then it's baseless slander that brings into question your own credibility.

[The Poet]

Whatever. You are absolutely right - it is merely ill fortune that the rancid stench of corruption has followed Calipari everywhere he's gone, and the University of Kentucky has always been the cleanest, most honest, and totally perfect college program in the history of all the entire universes, both known and unknown. God Himself is not as holy as Adolph Rupp.

As for the games, both Kansas and Michigan State hold healthy, albeit not dominating, leads in their games at the middle of the second half.

[The Poet]

Both KU and MSU win. Texas/UNC just starting.

[The Poet]

Texas goes on late run to take a 13-point lead into the break. West Virginia starting to open their game up in the second, while Xavier and Butler are really duking it out.

[The Poet]

Still double-digits for the Longhorns with 4 minutes left. West Virginia in a war with Cleveland State, and Xavier/Butler still one too.

[The Poet]

Butler edges Xavier by one, and West Virginia stomps Cleveland State by two. Texas about has UNC finished late.

[The Poet]

Texas passes its first true test of the season, besting the Tar Heels 103-90 at a neutral site - Cowboy Stadium.

[Clampdown]

Originally Posted by The Poet

Whatever. You are absolutely right - it is merely ill fortune that the rancid stench of corruption has followed Calipari everywhere he's gone, and the University of Kentucky has always been the cleanest, most honest, and totally perfect college program in the history of all the entire universes, both known and unknown. God Himself is not as holy as Adolph Rupp.

As for the games, both Kansas and Michigan State hold healthy, albeit not dominating, leads in their games at the middle of the second half.

Sarcasm is usually the last resort when truth kicks you in the ass. Let's not forget Kansas (while Roy Williams was coach) just ending its two years probation due to three university representatives giving cash and clothing to graduating players. No program/coach is without dark clouds in its past, but to attack a man for a players transgressions is unfair to him, his family and the university he represents. And personally, I find the blasphemy of your last statement not only unfortunate but offensive. I'm gladly done with this thread. Go Big Blue!!!

[The Poet]

Originally Posted by Clampdown

Sarcasm is usually the last resort when truth kicks you in the ass. Let's not forget Kansas (while Roy Williams was coach) just ending its two years probation due to three university representatives giving cash and clothing to graduating players. No program/coach is without dark clouds in its past, but to attack a man for a players transgressions is unfair to him, his family and the university he represents. And personally, I find the blasphemy of your last statement not only unfortunate but offensive. I'm gladly done with this thread. Go Big Blue!!!

OK, Brian, I tried to let this go and let you have your way, as I decided discussing this is akin to talking evolution to a creationist. But you seemingly cannot, and so I'll reply to some of your previous comments.

You said that Roy Williams recruited John Wall himself. Well, Coach Williams is on record as saying he made one phonecall to Wall, when he and UNC were at the Final Four, and that merely at the behest of an unnamed third party. When pressed on the issue as to why he did not pursue the matter further, he diplomatically replied that John Wall was the most talented guard he'd seen since Jason Kidd, but that Wall did not fit into the plans he had for the Tar Heels. But hey, what does Roy Williams know about what Roy Williams did? You know better - after all, you are a Kentucky fan, and Kentucky fans know everything. As for your contention that Roy had a problem with Wall's AAU coach, I never saw any comment Roy made on that specific subject. However, it is logical to me that, if he did have a problem with the John Wall situation, Roy would not put the onus of blame upon a naive high-school student, but would instead place the fault on the adult who was supposed to be mentoring the kid, and who may have venal reasons for trying to exploit John Wall for his own benefit. Yet this does not necessarily mean that your opposing logic, that of placing the blame fully upon the young men who played for John Calipari in his previous positions instead of the grown-up who was getting paid millions of dollars to be THEIR mentor, is flawed. You may feel that, just because these young men are (at least in theory) students, their singlemost important influence in their college career need not be an educator, and that a coach's responsibilities begin and end in the gym. But hey, who am I to argue this with you - after all, you are a Kentucky fan, and Kentucky fans know everything. And speaking of John Wall, of whom I made no negative comment, he himself said that, although he was glad to be at Kentucky, he himself was disappointed and a bit hurt that Roy Williams did not recruit him to play for the Tar Heels, the team for whom he grew up playing. However, this is not to dispute your contention that Roy tried to get Wall to come to Chapel Hill, for what does John Wall know about who recruited John Wall? You know best - after all, you are a Kentucky fan, and Kentucky fans know everything. Further, let me point out that the negative comments I made about John Calipari pale in comparision to those made late last week by Bobby Knight, who stated quite plainly that he did not understand why Cal was still allowed by the NCAA to coach college basketball. Nevertheless, we can surely discount this criticism, as it is obvious that, just like me, Bobby Knight knows absolutely nothing about college basketball. After all, he is only the winningest coach in the history of NCAA basketball, and me - well, I've only been following the sport for a bit over fifty years. You know better than both of us - after all, you are a Kentucky fan, and Kentucky fans know everything.

So go right ahead and continue to wear those blinders (you know, blinders, like they put on horses in Kentucky so that they cannot see what's going on in the world around them), and keep believing what your faith tells you to. Yes, faith, for too many fans - regardless of their loyalties - appear to view it more as a religion than what it truly is: a game. All I will ask you is that, if you have any further remarks to make on this, you take it to PMs to me and refrain from posting anything more than a cursory reply on here, unless it is about the game itself and not on this specific issue. As for me, I shall not reply again on this at all.

And as for the rest of you, I apologize for the direction this "fun" thread took recently, and I'll do my best to get it back on the court and out of the courtroom. Thank you for your patience, and my, hopefully, normal updates will follow - as soon as I relax and have a drink.

[The Poet]

Good gracious, this Christmas rush is killing me. I will get back to this as soon as the madness stops, I promise you. But hey, I ain't stopping you guys from posting about games YOU found of interest. Go ahead, jump in.

[The Poet]

Well maybe the holiday rush has slowed down enough for me to finally get back to this, so let me give you an update of the games I found most interesting during the preceeding week.

On Saturday 12/19 :

Richmond 56 - Florida 53 = Those Spiders bite someone again. Seems I recall telling the Gator fans not to get too excited 'way back when they beat Michigan State.

ODU 61 - Georgetown 57 = Hey, that was one good day for the state of Virginia, wasn't it?

USC 77 - Tennessee 55 = This was NOT a Pearl of a performance by the Volunteers. But it makes some sense - after all, Spartans are raised as warriors from birth, while Volunteers are, well, volunteers.

Wichita State 85 - Texas Tech 83 = Once again proof that early polls are just that - early.

U. Mass. 73 - Memphis 72 = This was one hell of a matchup in the first annual John Calipari Uninvitational.

On Sunday 12/20 :

Florida State 66 - Geogia Tech 59 (OT) = Life in the ACC is, as usual, one tough row to hoe.

On Monday 12/21 :

Arizona 83 - Lipscomb 82 (OT) = OK, I know this ain't a great Arizona team, compared to their past, but c'mon now. Lipscomb?

Kentucky 88 - Drexel 44 = The double-up final score means jack in itself, but I'll give the Wildcats some props for winning their 2,00th game.

On Tuesday 12/22 :

South Alabama 67 - Florida 66 = Those Gators got got again.

UAB 67 - Butler 57 = Those Bulldogs are just strange this season. They win a big game, then lose a big game, then win, then lose. Will somebody take them out of the rankings until they can find their @$$es for more than a week or so?

Washington 73 - Texas A&M 64 = The battle of two teams that are probably where they belong - lurking near the cellar of the ranked.

On Wednesday 12/23 :

Arizona 76 - N.C. State 74 = And it took a driving layup - on their own home court, fer Kris'sakes - with a second left for these Wildcats to pull out the win over a "meh" Wolfpack. How the mighty have fallen.

Oral Roberts 75 - New Mexico 66 = Remember when pundits were touting the Mountain West, with both the Lobos and the Runnin' Rebels climbing the polls? Fuggitabboutit.

On Friday 12/25 :

USC 67 - UNLV 56 = See?

There's only one game scheduled today, with # 6 West Virginia playing Seton Hall in beautiful downtown Newark. And there's not a lot tomorrow, with the only significant game being U.Conn/Iona and Wash./San Francisco. But soon the conference schedules will hit high gear, and then we'll have some fun. Until then, enjoy.

[The Poet]

West Virginia has its hands full at the Pru, and lead only 41-39 over the Pirates at the half.

[WildBlueSooner]

Originally Posted by Clampdown

Not a blindered fand (not sure what that means, blinded perhaps?). I'm a graduate of the University of Kentucky and a fan of every UK sports program. Therefore, when you attack my university and spread blatant lies about it, I will speak up. However, if we do something wrong, I will be right there wanting answers.

I brought up both instances when you stated he cheated and yet you come back with once again nothing. Please, tell me when Calipari was put on probation by the NCAA or was ever implicated in any wrongdoing? You honestly expect a coach to be held responsible when a sports agent gives money to a college player to seek favor. With this mentality then every coach should be suspended or blamed when a player gets a DUI, flunks a class, uses illegal drugs. Please, these are adults and are expected to act accordingly when they are on their own. Shouldn't the blame be placed on the player who knowingly broke the rules for their own personal gain?

And once again let me set the record straight because you are wrong about the recruitment of Wall. John Wall was recruited by Roy Williams but he (Williams) backed off because of a strained relationship Williams had with Wall's AAU coach. There were questions about John Wall's eligibility after his coach paid $800 for travel expenses, which John Wall repaid. Wall chose Memphis over other universities because of the offensive mentality implemented by Calipari, not because of some backroom deal struck between the coach and player. The NCAA looked at the issue (Wall and his AAU coach), suspended John Wall for two games and the issue is dead. If there was something there then don't you think the NCAA would do everything in it's power to go after Wall, Calipari and UK. So, there was a little smoke, and unfortunately for your pitchfork brigade, there was no fire.

When Calipari is found guilty by the NCAA of any rules violations, then you can attack the man's character until then it's baseless slander that brings into question your own credibility.

First off . Second, I am disclosing that I am also a UK grad, and I agree with everything you have said. Secondly, anyone who looks at the violations everyone loves to talk about, and actually thinks about it, they will see they were out of his hands. He has been a head coach since 1988, and those are the two events people remember, both of which were not violations committed by him. Anyways, one thing I love about UK is other people getting worked up...especially when we are winning. When people are talking bad about UK, I am feeling good

[The Poet]

If you missed that West Virginia/Seton Hall game Saturday, you definitely did miss it. The Pirates went on a 12-2 run in the last minute to force an overtime at 77-all, and The Rock was rockin'. Had the Pirates hit just one of those numerous chokes from the line in regulation, they would have won the game, instead of losing it 90-84 in OT. As for the Sunday games, both U. Conn and Washington won easily against pretty weak opposition - so for once you were better off watching all the upsets in the NFL yesterday.

There's not much promise of good games tonight either, at least if all the teams play up to their potential. Games involving the better schools include:

UNC vs. Rutgers = Should be a double-digit win to get the Heels to double-digit wins.

Florida vs. American = You'd think the Gators could handle these guys easily, but it won't help their standing regardless.

Temple vs. Bowling Green = Zzzzzzzzzzz.

Gonzaga vs. Eastern Washington = And don't wake me for this one either.

BYU vs. Arizona = OK now, here might be a game. Both teams are trying to prove, to the country and themselves, that they are for real.

Portland vs. Nevada = And again. These two were early darlings who've fallen out of favor, and both need to reboot.

Enjoy.

Up next for the Orangemen, the most hated (well, not MOST hated, but kinda hated) Seton Hall.

I hope to be at one of the home games soon. The company my dad recently retired from has a corporate box in the Carrier, and because of his postion in the company over the years I've gotten to see great events there, boxing, basketball, concerts, it's been a blast. Hoping to get to see a big game.