Advice for B&M owners anyone?

Originally Posted by Adriftpanda

Maybe he was busy?

Nope. Store had two guys puffing, and the proprietor on the PC looking at ESPN.com. Went back later in the eve when I was driving by, just to ask the younger sales man about it.

He said they had been in the back for 3 weeks, that the rep dropped them off intending to be given out to the guys who buy Omar Ortez lines. He walked into their closet, grabbed them, and 5 #49 Anjeo's the other fella said they didn't have, and I completed my order.

The salesman told me point blank, "yeah, the other guy is a dick".

I haven't gone back.

[loki]

Originally Posted by Bad Finger

Nope. Paul's Cigar Shop on Beaverton-Hillsdale HWY.

Asked about Warlock (by omar ortez), and the older salesman told me "yep, we just had some dropped off in the back for promo, but i haven't inventoried them yet".

I laughed all the way out the door.

so you do everything the second you get it? maybe he'd just done inventory the day before, maybe he just did it before you got there...maybe you should open your own shop since you have the perfect way to do everything

Originally Posted by awsmith4

So are you now saying that a local cigar shop should keep prices in line with a online store and if they can't they should move out of state to avoid the taxes but continue to stay in state and provide cigars and a place for you to smoke?

Seems impossible...

No, I gave two of the local shops their opportunity to earn my business several times. Timber Valley Tobacco's owner died, and the sales woman who bought it, Dawn, ran it into the ground by not ordering any more stock.

Paul's has the worst service I've ever had, of ANY retailer, tobacco or not.

Rich's is a good place. They have a markup of about $1-2 per stick compared to other places, but it is downtown and I understand that.

Pearl Specialty Market is right down the road and charges 20% more than Rich's.

I love threads that ask you your opinion, then you get chided for giving it! lol


I never said they needed to keep prices inline with online retailers. I said putting an extra $10 a stick compared to other stores in town would get you labeled a scammer.

Originally Posted by loki

so you do everything the second you get it? maybe he'd just done inventory the day before, maybe he just did it before you got there...maybe you should open your own shop since you have the perfect way to do everything

Nope, the online guys do a perfect job for me. Thanks!

[awsmith4]

Originally Posted by Bad Finger

No, I gave two of the local shops their opportunity to earn my business several times. Timber Valley Tobacco's owner died, and the sales woman who bought it, Dawn, ran it into the ground by not ordering any more stock.

Paul's has the worst service I've ever had, of ANY retailer, tobacco or not.

Rich's is a good place. They have a markup of about $1-2 per stick compared to other places, but it is downtown and I understand that.

Pearl Specialty Market is right down the road and charges 20% more than Rich's.

I love threads that ask you your opinion, then you get chided for giving it! lol

I'm not chiding you, and I apologize for the tone of my last post. You do however state your opinions with a certain vigor that for some reason inspired me to repute. But it was meant to be more in the spirit of a lively debate, not to tell you you are wrong.

If you scroll back a few pages you and I made the same point, my biggest piece of advice to store owners is "Give a damn"

[awsmith4]

Originally Posted by Bad Finger

Nope, the online guys do a perfect job for me. Thanks!

However, then you made this post.

Online guys do not provide a lounge, they don not clean the ashtrays, they do not give personal service. I too order a lot of cigars online but each the online and the local retailers play a certain role.

Originally Posted by awsmith4

I'm not chiding you, and I apologize for the tone of my last post. You do however state your opinions with a certain vigor that for some reason inspired me to repute. But it was meant to be more in the spirit of a lively debate, not to tell you you are wrong.

If you scroll back a few pages you and I made the same point, my biggest piece of advice to store owners is "Give a damn"

You're probably right. My wife says I come across as a prick to almost everyone. It wasn't meant to be as rough of a response as it came across as, but being a small business owner I often go over what I would do differently if I were the owner of a shop when I walk in.

It wasn't meant to be an attack on B&M owners, just what many people feel when they walk in.

In all honesty, a good friend of mine is thinking looking to purchase Timber Valley and turn it into a private club. Hopefully, he will be able to lead by example rather than follow what other shops in town do.

1. Interact with customers

2. Offer the best service available. Customer service is what adds value to the product you sell. Customers can get that thing you have at a number of stores, they come to you because they either like you or you offer something they can't get anywhere else, usually outstanding service.

3. Thank the customer for the patronage. Simply put, a little praise goes along way with people.

4. If you have to lose money in order to get a box of Anejos in your store for your customers once a year, do it. Mark the price up .25 on all your "reject" sticks, and flavored items to make up the difference. I doubt you'd have to go to that extreme however. Your customers will LOVE you for it, and will return for sure. I promise.

Originally Posted by awsmith4

However, then you made this post.

Online guys do not provide a lounge, they don not clean the ashtrays, they do not give personal service. I too order a lot of cigars online but each the online and the local retailers play a certain role.

Neither do our shops. They don't allow smoking, except Pauls which has two chairs.


I go to the Mark. I don't buy my cigars there, but I do spend $20-40 each time I go on food, and drink. Seeing as they have around 30 humidors that are owned by patrons there, I don't see them as making their money on stogies either.

[markem]

Originally Posted by Bad Finger

I go to the Mark. I don't buy my cigars there, but I do spend $20-40 each time I go on food, and drink. Seeing as they have around 30 humidors that are owned by patrons there, I don't see them as making their money on stogies either.

The cigars are from Broadway Cigars and you would have to ask Sam whether or not the Shilo/Mark makes any money off them. The Shilo/Mark owns the humidors and boxes, but I don't know what the rent might be. Some here on this board have private boxes there.,

Also, Dawn never owned Timber Valley, although she was looking for investors. The son of the late owner eventually sold it to two guys, who seem enthusiastic but are relatively new to cigars, or so I am led to believe.

Originally Posted by markem

The cigars are from Broadway Cigars and you would have to ask Sam whether or not the Shilo/Mark makes any money off them. The Shilo/Mark owns the humidors and boxes, but I don't know what the rent might be. Some here on this board have private boxes there.,

Also, Dawn never owned Timber Valley, although she was looking for investors. The son of the late owner eventually sold it to two guys, who seem enthusiastic but are relatively new to cigars, or so I am led to believe.

Gotcha. I was asking Ruth and the other 'tender about rentals, but they didn't know and thought they were privately owned.

I got a different story about Timber Valley, but I'm sure we can yap about it over a nice cold one sometime down at The Mark. My treat.

Whatever the case, they had a great selection two years ago, and lovely service (other than being preached to about Obama). Now you can't find a stick in there worth a crap it seems.

I have yet to go to Broadway, but am looking forward to the April 2nd Alec Bradley event. Maybe I'll see a few of you guys and gals there. I've been told its the best store in the valley, I just haven't been able to drive past The Mark without stopping in and getting stuck watching the game with really good people. How good is the service? They get 25-30% out of me on tips.

Going there tonight to play poker in fact. Been there every night this week since finding the place on Monday.

Spent $70 there so far, and taking another $80 for em tonight. I have no problems paying for a good place to smoke. Now, I need to give Nikki a $20 bill for her to order the Fox Soccer Channel so I can watch my games!

Bad Finger:

In PA, the legislators have passed laws that are popular with the masses, so smoking in businesses that can be accessed by the general public is out. Both existing businesses and new businesses that want the “privilege” of allowing smoking have to pay the state for that privilege. Local government wants in on the take too, so Cigar shop owners have to pay more. People that were already in business have no choice than to pay the license fees or close. When you have debt that can only be paid by staying in business, you have to pay the license fees and try to survive. The owner’s costs have gone up since the anti-smoking laws have passed, so they have to charge more.

Maybe Walmart can afford to sell loss leaders, but cigar stores have a limited number of products to sell and they all have to do with smoking.

Bar owners have been impacted the same way. When smoking was banned in restaurants and bars, many of their customers started going to private clubs which by law can allow smoking (because it’s a private club that charges for membership. It is not open to the general public). Its easy for you to say they should move, but these owners have a mortgage and a debt service they have to pay, they have children in the local school system, and maybe one spouse has a career/job at another local company. People that have worked for a number of years at a career and have built up a retirement account are not going to pick up and move because the smoking laws have changed, they can’t.

I think your attitude is a bit flippant.


Mike T.

[icehog3]

Originally Posted by Bad Finger

I love threads that ask you your opinion, then you get chided for giving it! lol

I know you are new here, Clancy, and you seem quite knowlegable. I will say here that usually any fallout is more due to the tone than to the content. Very tolerant bunch here in general, as long as the dialogue is civil.

[RandJCigars]

Some really interesting comments here...most seem to be either East Coast or West Coast. I'd like to hear from some of you customers in the South; Texas, Louisiana, Florida, etc.

It seems fascinating to me that some of these proclaiming business owners would act in such a way. I run a B & M myself, and customers (as all of us should know) make the doors stay open. Now I won't sit here and say that I welcome and greet every customer that walks through the door right away, but before they leave, they will get a "hello, how's it going, if you need anything let me know". That is my greeting to all customers that aren't "regulars".

On a day to day basis, Im either at the computer dealing with manufacturers (making orders), dealing with accounts (taking orders for the wholesale side of the business), cold calling to attempt to open new accounts, and stock trading. When Im not at the computer, Im sitting down with the customers conversing, play8ing dominos, playing cards, or just hanging out. When a customer comes in while Im in that scenario, I make it a point to look at them and tell them "If you need anything, don't hesitate to ask" so they know I'm the guy that works there.

It's crazy to me to hear that these little things that all B & M owners should do naturally, don't do, and end up losing customers over it. I do not have a walkin humidor but I would think that rather following in customers every time they enter, the owner would just put in a few cameras to cover the angles.....but I guess not.

Keep the conversation going, it's cool to read this side and than read the B & M thread, lo.

Jimmy:

I like your approach to handling customers. Its not hard-sell and you are letting the customers know you work there and if/when they have questions, you can take care of them.

The only B&M store where I live is small with a limited selection of cigars that I never heard of before. Now, I don't know every cigar on the market, but I don't see the common brands. I believe they open at 11am and close at 5pm Mon-Wed and stay open later on Thursday or Friday. It makes it difficult for me to go there, I work too. This place won't be a hang out for me, I am not going to pay 10 to 12 for a cigar I never heard of just to support their store.

When I was back home for the holidays, there was a much larger B&M with a great selection of cigars, a nice selection of accessories, and a knowledgeable staff. I went in there with my nephew. I spent $65 on cigars and my nephew bought some accessories. We sat and smoked a cigar and relaxed in some nice leather chairs. If that store was located where I live now, I would be a regular.

Jimmy-Just an FYI. I sent an email to you at your shop.


Cheers,



Mike T.

[pnoon]

Originally Posted by Miket156

Jimmy:

I like your approach to handling customers. Its not hard-sell and you are letting the customers know you work there and if/when they have questions, you can take care of them.

The only B&M store where I live is small with a limited selection of cigars that I never heard of before. Now, I don't know every cigar on the market, but I don't see the common brands. I believe they open at 11am and close at 5pm Mon-Wed and stay open later on Thursday or Friday. It makes it difficult for me to go there, I work too. This place won't be a hang out for me, I am not going to pay 10 to 12 for a cigar I never heard of just to support their store.

When I was back home for the holidays, there was a much larger B&M with a great selection of cigars, a nice selection of accessories, and a knowledgeable staff. I went in there with my nephew. I spent $65 on cigars and my nephew bought some accessories. We sat and smoked a cigar and relaxed in some nice leather chairs. If that store was located where I live now, I would be a regular.

Jimmy-Just an FYI. I sent an email to you at your shop.


Cheers,



Mike T.

Mike,
Rather than put a members name (to whom you are responding) at the start of your post, it is more helpful to use the "quote" button. This not only shows your response is addressing a particular person but it also puts your response in context without the reader having to go back and look for the post to which you refer.

[OLS]

I also like this thread and have to come down on the side of the free-marketers.
ANY B&M that prices stock high, I do not think of them as gougers or scammers or rip-
off artists. However, I also do not go to their shops again. So in the end, one thing they
ARE is losers. I spend, or used to spend a ton of money on cigars in B&Ms and while I hold
no personal animosity towards them, I do chuckle at how they let 5 grand a year walk out
the door.

Now many will just think, 'oh that guy is a hobo with no money, who cares if he left without
buying'. No. I am not going to tell you how to price your stuff, because I know that in any
business it's tough out there, and in the stogie business, it's often really scary. But I think
that a lot of customers are like me, I'll let a B&M owner hang himself without so much as a
price comment. Because I DON'T KNOW anything about his business. But I have definite
opinions. I am a foot voter. What's funnier is that also have no idea about how much info they
share with one another, is one shop KILLING IT and keeping that info to himself, or is he sharing
his basic profits with other owners and leaving them scratching their head over how he does it?
Who knows. But price sells and word travels fast.

[OLS]

When I am a seller, though, I AM CONCIOUS about my high prices and always apologize for them in advance.
I do not LOWER them, but I do apologize for them, lol.

[RandJCigars]

Mike,

Thank you sir. I replied back to your inquiry.

Originally Posted by Miket156

Jimmy:

I like your approach to handling customers. Its not hard-sell and you are letting the customers know you work there and if/when they have questions, you can take care of them.

The only B&M store where I live is small with a limited selection of cigars that I never heard of before. Now, I don't know every cigar on the market, but I don't see the common brands. I believe they open at 11am and close at 5pm Mon-Wed and stay open later on Thursday or Friday. It makes it difficult for me to go there, I work too. This place won't be a hang out for me, I am not going to pay 10 to 12 for a cigar I never heard of just to support their store.

When I was back home for the holidays, there was a much larger B&M with a great selection of cigars, a nice selection of accessories, and a knowledgeable staff. I went in there with my nephew. I spent $65 on cigars and my nephew bought some accessories. We sat and smoked a cigar and relaxed in some nice leather chairs. If that store was located where I live now, I would be a regular.

Jimmy-Just an FYI. I sent an email to you at your shop.


Cheers,



Mike T.

I have to give a shout out to Jimmy Zaid, one of our members that owns a cigar shop outside of Houston TX and also wholesales to other stores in Texas. I found Jimmy on this website and I emailed him for prices. I placed my order and it shipped Thursday from his locaton in Pearland Texas. My order was on my door step this morning here in Central PA! His prices are competitive or lower than the national internet stores and I got the best service I ever had, no BS. Both boxes of Cigars I ordered were fresh and in sealed boxes as we would expect, the supplies were good order, and he through in a couple of free cigars for giving him a try! His handle is RandJCigars on this site. If you look him up, all his contact information is there.

I don't know if its appropriate for me to provide his phone number and email address or not, so I'll let that slide. Members of this Forum can find him easily on this site, he is a listed vendor.

Its nice to deal with "one of our own".


Cheers,


Mike T.

[weetone]

Originally Posted by Thammy

Weird, I know they can't advertise any. Yeah when I worked at a gas station I could not show the tobacco or advertise it, yet in a Irish Pub they had a cigarettes ad. Oh well. Maybe I should figure out what these laws are exactly.

All tobacco products must be covered in any store that sells them, except for stores that are specifically designated as a tobacconist. However, if you're a tobacconist, you are required to black out your front window so that nobody can see in.

The law is the Tobacco Reduction Act - you can view some information on it here:http://www.health.alberta.ca/initiat...reduction.html

As for the advertising, you can still advertise cigarettes in places where everybody is over the age of 18. So, bars are off the hook. As far as I am aware, magazines where readership is over 80% adults can also have some limited advertising.

Finally, you mentioned a local shop that had a young gal working. Burlington on Whyte is the only place to go in the city.

Also, for the guys who mentioned people following you into the humidor. If you're in Canada, as far as I am aware, it is the law that customers not enter unescorted. What's more, you are not actually allowed (by law) to touch the sticks. Employees have got to touch them until you have paid for them. That is the case as far as I'm aware, so if you're North of the 49th, keep that in mind.