Mikes Cigars loses Oliva.

Originally Posted by SeanGAR

I haven't read Mike's contract with Olivia .... have you?



Sound stupid? This is about Olivia wanting price fixing and non-competitive selling of their cigars. I disagree with this completely.



I would absolutely NOT say that. I have not met the Olivias to say one way or the other. However, idiotic business decisions are made all over this country on a daily basis. Can you say "New Coke?".



Some competitor squealed on Mike's and complained that they were undercutting their price. I prefer capitalism and competition in the marketplace, not communistic pricing practices. I won't buy more Olivias as a result of this, but I doubt that will make a dime's difference in their bottom line. I really don't care, it is the principle.

I stand corrected. You are much smarter than the guys at oliva, they are stupid, you have considered every possible business situation. Forgive my Impertinence, I will no longer doubt you.

Originally Posted by SeanGAR

Some competitor squealed on Mike's and complained that they were undercutting their price. I prefer capitalism and competition in the marketplace, not communistic pricing practices. I won't buy more Olivias as a result of this, but I doubt that will make a dime's difference in their bottom line. I really don't care, it is the principle.

Oliva is practicing free market capitalism. Choosing who they sell to and how their product is marketed. Sorry to doubt you again, but check your definitions of communism

[pnoon]

Originally Posted by SeanGAR

I haven't read Mike's contract with Olivia .... have you?



Sound stupid? This is about Olivia wanting price fixing and non-competitive selling of their cigars. I disagree with this completely.



I would absolutely NOT say that. I have not met the Olivias to say one way or the other. However, idiotic business decisions are made all over this country on a daily basis. Can you say "New Coke?".



Some competitor squealed on Mike's and complained that they were undercutting their price. I prefer capitalism and competition in the marketplace, not communistic pricing practices. I won't buy more Olivias as a result of this, but I doubt that will make a dime's difference in their bottom line. I really don't care, it is the principle.

Originally Posted by Legend

I stand corrected. You are much smarter than the guys at oliva, they are stupid, you have considered every possible business situation. Forgive my Impertinence, I will no longer doubt you.

SeanGar's response is arguing ideas and stating his point of view.
Your reply is personal.

Let's keep the personal insults out of this.

[rizzle]

Funny thing...late yesterday afternoon while sitting on my back deck, I was smoking an Oliva Master Blend, listening to music which was coming at me through my Bose outdoor speakers, when I looked at my Rolex to see how long I had been sitting there absolutley enjoying myself. Life was pretty damn good.

I only wish I had known how much of a complete jackass I was for thinking I had anything worth owning. Thank you all for straightening me out. I knew I came to this place for a reason.

[Volusianator]

I'm just amazed how many people here are anti-B&M.

[SeanGAR]

Originally Posted by Legend

I stand corrected. You are much smarter than the guys at oliva, they are stupid, you have considered every possible business situation. Forgive my Impertinence, I will no longer doubt you.

Read my blasted post and stop trying to put words into my mouth.

Originally Posted by SeanGAR

I have not met the Olivias to say one way or the other.

Originally Posted by Volusianator

I'm just amazed how many people here are anti-B&M.

I don't think its "Anti-B&M".

I for one just need a good reason to support any business, smoke shops are no different than groceries, cars or furniture. Price is always considered but not always the determining factor.

I bought my last car from a dealer who offered me value for the added price over dealer "A".

Chas

[Volt]

Originally Posted by Volusianator

I'm just amazed how many people here are anti-B&M.

Wade, I think I read in one of your posts that you may work at a B&M, and I know FFF spends time at one. I can't say I hate them, just have no use for one in my world as they stand in my area. As a business/business model they don't offer me any service other than a quick cigar pick up that I can use. While I have had some issues with treatment, it was not the norm.

On the other hand, it is the business's responsibility to know and provide what the customer base wants, other wise why be in business? One example, most people want fast, cheap, clean shopping, Walmart provides that to the masses that have those needs. Most likely if there was a B&M that provided what I thought would make a good one, I would frequent it.

I am a bit amazed as you have indicated that so many others are not as happy as well for what ever reason with B&Ms. Sort of thought I was in the minority at first. A lot of people here definitely don't seem to be happy with what's available to them in their areas. Threads like this are good IMO. People who work in the industry can see what trend, feelings, etc may be out there and react to it.

My perfect B&M :

1. Allow bourbon, either club style with my name on the bottle or sell it. ABC rules being what they are, maybe not a possibility, but a few here have mentioned drinks in their B&Ms.
2. A price I can afford to buy your stock. I'll pay more for perceived value.
3. Good chow at the B&M or walking distance near by.
4. No wet cigars.
5. Be knowledgeable about your stock/hobby for I am not.
6. Be like Hooters - Be happy I came to your establishment, dump the elitist or snoby rich hobby attitudes.
7. We have good manners here and can teach others. Allow outside smokes, we're still gonna buy from you. Support Herfing. I give someone a Oliva G, they like it, walk over to the counter and buy 3 more. Win - Win.

Maybe a dream list, but for me this would be a B&M to visit.

[doctorcue]

Originally Posted by rizzle

Funny thing...late yesterday afternoon while sitting on my back deck, I was smoking an Oliva Master Blend, listening to music which was coming at me through my Bose outdoor speakers, when I looked at my Rolex to see how long I had been sitting there absolutley enjoying myself. Life was pretty damn good.

I only wish I had known how much of a complete jackass I was for thinking I had anything worth owning. Thank you all for straightening me out. I knew I came to this place for a reason.

HAHAHAH... that is hilarious! RG bump!

Originally Posted by Volt

Maybe a dream list, but for me this would be a B&M to visit.

You forgot the strippers.

[Volt]

Originally Posted by ronhoffman2

You forgot the strippers.

I am "trying" to keep my cost down

But if you insist, they are ok with me. i don't mind helping the college girls pay a little tuition.

[Raralith]

Originally Posted by ChasDen

I don't think its "Anti-B&M".

I for one just need a good reason to support any business, smoke shops are no different than groceries, cars or furniture. Price is always considered but not always the determining factor.

I bought my last car from a dealer who offered me value for the added price over dealer "A".

Chas

Exactly. I rarely buy from B&M's, and one of the reasons why is not just price, but what any business has to offer. I never understood why most B&M's try to focus on the price point of their product when you can easily and readily get it over the internet. This is an uphill battle, and one you probably will not win. What gets customers in is that extra service, that something unique that you can't get anywhere else. If one of my local B&M's had scotch, a tip jar, and decent prices, I would be there at least 3 times a week. But instead they have no booze, and the prices are outragous, even with our already high state tabacoo taxes. Volt made a good list, and if a B&M near me had these, I wouldn't mind being a patron there. But most B&M's don't, and instead of improving service, I meet owners and employees that grumble, give me the stink eye, and be general snobs and asses. If you work at a B&M or know a B&M that has these traits, don't blame the customer base for not going to you, blame yourselves for not providing the right services.

[Volusianator]

Originally Posted by Volt

My perfect B&M :

1. Allow bourbon, either club style with my name on the bottle or sell it. ABC rules being what they are, maybe not a possibility, but a few here have mentioned drinks in their B&Ms.
2. A price I can afford to buy your stock. I'll pay more for perceived value.
3. Good chow at the B&M or walking distance near by.
4. No wet cigars.
5. Be knowledgeable about your stock/hobby for I am not.
6. Be like Hooters - Be happy I came to your establishment, dump the elitist or snoby rich hobby attitudes.
7. We have good manners here and can teach others. Allow outside smokes, we're still gonna buy from you. Support Herfing. I give someone a Oliva G, they like it, walk over to the counter and buy 3 more. Win - Win.

Maybe a dream list, but for me this would be a B&M to visit.

Yeah, I work a day a week at a cigar shop 40 miles from my home, although honestly, that's really not the driving force behind my thoughts on the process. I don't think your list above is at all a "dream" as it surprises me that all are not that way. Other than we don't do food nor allow food carry ins, we do have a great number of restaurants very close by. We DO allow carry in cigars and will never change that policy.

1) we have a very well stocked bar of beer and alcohol
2) No doubt we're more expensive than the internet, but state taxes suck, we all know that. Nor can we buy at their volume.
3) Already covered above.
4) Our humidor is ALWAYS between 64-70%
5) We all are, very much so.
6) Our lounge is very laid back yet comfortable. We have several rooms to accommodate different groups, HDTV, DVD players, music, and microwave for our customers. My customers are college kids, traveling business men/women, tourists, and of course a large contingency of regulars.
7) You're always welcome to bring in your own smokes and banter back and forth with other guests. We do appreciate a purchase in our store before you leave as well, for if everyone just smoked what they brought in, we couldn't pay the bills and the doors would close for good. Then we lose that great atmosphere that we've provided for our guests.

I'm truly sorry that some of you don't have great B&M's that are local for you. We're the only one within 50 miles of us, yet have several in Milwaukee that we go to regularly just to bring a bunch of guys and have a herf and spread the wealth around a bit. B&M's are also very active in WI in fighting statewide no smoking bans.

I think there is another element to this discussion that has not really been touched upon yet. We cannot directly compare the tobacco industry and it's business models to others. Stereo speakers, watches, and other consumer products all go to market in similar ways, but they do not have the added pressure of direct government regulations and laws trying to stifle the use of their products, or the extra "sin taxes" being thrown at them from all directions. Outside forces are trying to reduce the use of a legal product, and are also taking advantage of a smaller less popular industry with added taxes. In Pittsburgh we are fortunate to have a few very good B&M's. For those of you who do not have the opportunity to frequent a top notch B&M, it's too bad. They are still part of the life line of this industry. Sure, there are good ones and bad ones, and they will thrive or fail with market forces, but to discount the viability of their presence in the industry is short sighted. We collectively need to do everything we can to support all facets of this industry, because eventually there may be nothing left. They are a physical presence of our right to smoke a legal product. There are places trying to prohibit smoking outdoors. Where will it end. I am not promoting shopping at shi$$y B&M's, but I am saying we need to help keep the good ones flourishing. They are the last stand in some states for having a place to smoke in public with other BOTL's. Now, as to the B&M's themselves, many of them also need to get their sh$t together and take a little pride in what they are doing, because we need them.

[SeanGAR]

Originally Posted by Texan in Mexico

I don't mean to get off topic but a big part of what I do is market research, campaigns and the New Coke idea is generally recognized as one of the greatest marketing coups of all time. Easily one of the Top 10.

How so?

[BigAsh]

Originally Posted by rizzle

Funny thing...late yesterday afternoon while sitting on my back deck, I was smoking an Oliva Master Blend, listening to music which was coming at me through my Bose outdoor speakers, when I looked at my Rolex to see how long I had been sitting there absolutley enjoying myself. Life was pretty damn good.

I only wish I had known how much of a complete jackass I was for thinking I had anything worth owning. Thank you all for straightening me out. I knew I came to this place for a reason.

Outstanding!....made the previous 4 pages more enjoyable.....

[jaycarla]

Originally Posted by croatan

Thank god for monoprice.com

THANK YOU! I have been in a week long mental lockdown of the site. Bookmarked now. Geez.

As for this topic. I like the thread, has brought out many good points and educated me along the way.

My only addition to this is that it is great to have a site where a topic like this can go on for 100 posts and not turn into WWIII. So far anyway.

Just some random ramblings from another Oliva Whore.

[Pat1075]

Just a quick point to all those calling this price fixing it is not. Price fixing is an illegal practice which occurs when two or more businesses in an area who are in a similar trade like cigars decide they will sell the same product for the same price. So if shop A decided they would sell Oliva G for 5.60 a piece this week so would shop B. then over the weekend the owners of shops A and B would meet and decide the would raise the price of oliva G to an even 6.00 on monday. it would work the same way with price drops too. That would be price fixing. Thats all thank you.

[Texan in Mexico]

Originally Posted by SeanGAR

How so?

I don't want to divert this thread but basically - there is great debate as to whether this was done as a true shift in ideaology for a market leader or to generate fervor in the market.

Honestly we will probably never know, even Robert Goizurta has given contradictory accounts of the build up to its launch, many feel this was done purposely, and unfortunately he succumbed to lung cancer in 97.

My belief is that it was a weighed risk that perhaps didn't fulfill its potential but did create such a fuss that he we are talking about it on a Cigar Forum more than 20 years later.

It is an incredible case study. There is much more to it and I'd be thrilled to point you in the direction of some support material and you let me know what you think!

Thanks for your reply.

Travis

[croatan]

Originally Posted by Pat1075

Just a quick point to all those calling this price fixing it is not.

Correct. This is a vertical price restraint. For many years, courts looked very unfavorably on them, but they've recently been analyzed under the rule of reason.