Cooled Cabinet Humidor Project

[gettysburgfreak]

straight up ridiculous, your a lucky man

[cort]

That thing is crazy. Nice work man

[Bax]

That thing is friggin' sweet!

[Agent11br]

geezus, that is frikin sweet!! thanks for the update!!

[BigAsh]

yep, that DOESN'T suck!......Sweeeeeeeeet!

[groogs]

Thanks for the update, it is looking great.

[jds78]

Originally Posted by MikeyC

What kind of insulation are you putting in? I would think with the cooling unit and humidity involved in this project you would want to be careful about what you're using so as not to get mold from condensation in the insulation.

I'm using 1.5" thick rigid insulation. I hadn't consider condensation in the insulation to be an issue since it's isolated by the Spanish cedar. Are you thinking condensation will form in the insulation gap due to the temperature difference between the inside and outside? Should I maybe add poly to the warm side between the insulation and the walnut?

[MikeyC]

Originally Posted by jds78

I'm using 1.5" thick rigid insulation. I hadn't consider condensation in the insulation to be an issue since it's isolated by the Spanish cedar. Are you thinking condensation will form in the insulation gap due to the temperature difference between the inside and outside? Should I maybe add poly to the warm side between the insulation and the walnut?

That was my thought. I hate to be the a-hole who points out the problem without having a solution, but unfortunately that's the situation.

Also, have you considered using expanding foam for insulation? I would think it would fill up odd size spaces and gaps better than rigid insulation. It will make things more air tight and therefore your refrigeration unit will be more efficient. You'll probably have to let it sit for a while in order to out gas, but nothing done right is quick.

[karmaz00]

thats amazing. cant wait to see the finish product

[HK3-]

Nice work! She's a beauty!

I just ran through the thread, you must have the patience of a saint if you have any fingernails left!!! I'd have eaten through mine by now, that's for sure! What a great project, looks awesome!

[jds78]

Originally Posted by MikeyC

That was my thought. I hate to be the a-hole who points out the problem without having a solution, but unfortunately that's the situation.

Also, have you considered using expanding foam for insulation? I would think it would fill up odd size spaces and gaps better than rigid insulation. It will make things more air tight and therefore your refrigeration unit will be more efficient. You'll probably have to let it sit for a while in order to out gas, but nothing done right is quick.

I considered using the expanding foam but since I'm running by wires in that space as well I would't be able to get at the wiring if I needed to in the future.

I wonder how Aristocrat and Avallo deal with this issue? I'm pretty sure they use rigid insulation in their cabinets.

[jds78]

Originally Posted by LordOfWu

I just ran through the thread, you must have the patience of a saint if you have any fingernails left!!! I'd have eaten through mine by now, that's for sure! What a great project, looks awesome!

It hasen't been easy. I've been trying to figure out all the electronics so that's kept me busy. I started drawings and ordering material back in August so it will be about 6 months start to finish, but well worth the wait.

[SmokinDuck]

I would think that if you were to wrap the rigid insulation with a heavy plastic and seal all the seams of the plastic with some sort of heavy tape, like the tape that they use on Tyvek house wrap, you should be alright. Kind of like gift wrapping it.

You might also be able to get rigid insulation that is impervious to absorbing moisture which would solve the problem.

Kick ass project by the way.

[troutbreath]

That is beautiful work.

Don't over analyze the moisture issue and make it worse.
To better understand the issue, here is an excerpt from the Dept. of energy consumer’s guide on foam board;

"In cold weather, warm inside air containing water vapor can get past the wall finish and insulation, condensing inside the colder wall cavity. In hot, humid climates the same thing can happen, just in the reverse direction. Humid outdoor air in the summer can condense inside cool, air conditioned wall cavities. If enough of this happens and the water cannot escape, wood rot, mold, and other moisture-related problems can occur. For this reason, building codes often require installing a vapor diffusion retarder on the warmest side of the wall cavity."

The keys to your project, if installing a vapor barrier is to determine;

• What is the warmest side of the box?
• Will there be airspace between the 2 units?
• Will there be adequate places for the moisture to escape on its own?

You can make it worse if you trap it in a void and it cannot escape.
Also check with the supplier where you buy the foam,
some already contain a plastic coating that will act as a barrier.
I would just place that side against the cedar side of the cabinet and let the rest of the cabinet breath to keep from rotting.

Keep in mind the concern with moisture in this application is not the amount of moisture in the cabinet vs. outside (cedar will do most of the work containing it if installed properly) it's the temperature difference inside vs. outside where condensation will be created.

In most case unless its in an extreme location it's not going to be a problem.

Chas

[Bax]

Originally Posted by ChasDen

Don't over analyze the moisture issue and make it worse.
To better understand the issue, here is an excerpt from the Dept. of energy consumer’s guide on foam board;

"In cold weather, warm inside air containing water vapor can get past the wall finish and insulation, condensing inside the colder wall cavity. In hot, humid climates the same thing can happen, just in the reverse direction. Humid outdoor air in the summer can condense inside cool, air conditioned wall cavities. If enough of this happens and the water cannot escape, wood rot, mold, and other moisture-related problems can occur. For this reason, building codes often require installing a vapor diffusion retarder on the warmest side of the wall cavity."

The keys to your project, if installing a vapor barrier is to determine;

• What is the warmest side of the box?
• Will there be airspace between the 2 units?
• Will there be adequate places for the moisture to escape on its own?

You can make it worse if you trap it in a void and it cannot escape.
Also check with the supplier where you buy the foam,
some already contain a plastic coating that will act as a barrier.
I would just place that side against the cedar side of the cabinet and let the rest of the cabinet breath to keep from rotting.

Keep in mind the concern with moisture in this application is not the amount of moisture in the cabinet vs. outside (cedar will do most of the work containing it if installed properly) it's the temperature difference inside vs. outside where condensation will be created.

In most case unless its in an extreme location it's not going to be a problem.

Chas

Great work Chas, I need you to write my next pre-nup

[ca21455]

Originally Posted by jds78

I considered using the expanding foam but since I'm running by wires in that space as well I would't be able to get at the wiring if I needed to in the future.

I wonder how Aristocrat and Avallo deal with this issue? I'm pretty sure they use rigid insulation in their cabinets.

I recommend you contact Bob at Aristocrat:

www.aristocrathumidors.com

His phone number and email is listed on the website. He is a really good guy and I am sure he would be willing to help you out.

I cant swear to it, I cant swear the cabinet I saw was his but the guy said it was, but one I saw did not use a vapor barrier.
A guy local dropped his moving and knew I was into woodworking and asked me to look at fixing it.

Some wood glue and clamps was all he needed and I saw no vapor barrier at all.

Chas

[jds78]

Thanks for the great info Chas. Since temperature is really only an issue for me 3 months of the year and the maximum temperature difference will only be about 10 degrees I'm thinking vapor barrier might be overkill.

There is a small hole in the bottom of the cabinet for the power cord. I was going fill it with foam insulation but I might leave it open for moisture to escape.