Sometimes you call a spade a spade

[Negncic]

Originally Posted by kaisersozei

Shawn, I am sorry & outraged for all the trouble Hardcz has caused to you and other stand-up members on this board.

Like others, I have previously been reluctant to leave negative feedback. Earlier this spring, Dan & I were in a sticks-for-sticks trade that never really happened--I sent him my end of some pretty choice smokes, and despite his numerous PMs promising to "get something out right away," nothing ever materialized. I took his previous good-standing at face value and I chalked it up to "sh*t happens," and just moved on. Besides, I didn't want to be the first person to tarnish his trader reputation.

Hindsight being what it is, I wish I had used the system the way it was designed and left negative feedback. Not sure if it would have prevented any of this, but it might have raised some questions. I apologize for my omission, and commit that it won't happen again. Deals gone bad will get negative feedback.

This event and Poker's post about scammers is a perfect example of why we should use the system the way it was intended.

at myself

[Negncic]

Originally Posted by poker

FYI: Even banned members are now visible in the memberlist

I like his new avatar.

[pnoon]

Originally Posted by poker

FYI: Even banned members are now visible in the memberlist

I stand (sit) corrected.

Sorry, Al.

Originally Posted by pnoon

I stand (sit) corrected.

Sorry, Al.

No problem here.

And if you sort by rep it puts the banned guys on the last page.

[Kreth]

I'm sorry to hear that some of you got scammed. I participated in the coaster bomb for Dan a while back and he seemed like a decent guy. Just remember that according to the Hindu belief of karma, he'll probably come back as a tobacco beetle in his next life.

I'm really truly sorry to hear about this. Makes me sick, actually. We come to this board to learn, make friends and lifelong bonds over a common intrest that brings us together in the first place. Just like my craigslist scam thread, yes, we know scammers are out there and it's very unfortunate if some get through to us here on CA but it's certainly easy to feel a false sense of security when you're surrounded by such good people as we are here on CA.

I'm on the internet fraud bandwagon...privacy issues aside (even though I understand them), I do think you guys should take legal action against Dan (who I had also called a friend) and anybody else who steals from you. And that is exactly what he has done.

That, or, hey, how many of you guys have his address from bombs & trades huh? Michigan, right?.....anyone want to form a militia? (I'm certainly not suggesting this; I think the legal route is the way to go....hey, somebody's got to have his address to put on the report...).

Originally Posted by poker

Heres a short list of folks who have in the past took advantage of communities like ours. Keep in mind the list goes back quite a ways.

http://www.vitolas.net/wiki/scumbags/list

Hey Kelly - I don't see kumarusc on there...what's up with that?

Again, guys, it pains me to hear about this. As far as I'm concerned, you attack a friend, you should expect the wrath from all of us. Even though I'm kind of a wimp, I can still write words that hurt so Shawn, Vin, M.J., Dave, elderboy, we got your back.

[poker]

I didnt make the list.

Originally Posted by poker

I didnt make the list.

Lookie here....I also have his phone number....if any of you would like it, I'd be happy to give it up. You know, for the fraud report.....or to order a pizza.

[pnoon]

Originally Posted by mrreindeer

I'm on the internet fraud bandwagon...privacy issues aside (even though I understand them), I do think you guys should take legal action against Dan (who I had also called a friend) and anybody else who steals from you. And that is exactly what he has done.

I understand how you feel but please read what was posted not too long ago.

Originally Posted by croatan

In response to those recommending some criminal legal action be taken in this matter, I'd just like to remind you all that cigar communities are most comfortable flying under the radar, so to speak. It shouldn't take too much thought on the subject to figure out why this would be the case.

I don't think most here would care to have their pms and posts subpoenaed as part of an investigation. People like their privacy, degree of anonymity, and any scrutiny would be detrimental.

Of course, I don't think that SilverFox would want things to go to that level, I just felt it prudent to be clear on the above points.

I know Peter, I know....I just want the guilty to fry...it's hard, I'm resisting, I'm resisting. I sit here resisting. Makes sense.

[elderboy02]

I am not in favor of taking legal action. If he wants to screw me, fine. I don't have time to deal with investigations, etc.

[MajorCaptSilly]

I got took for $158.00. Fortunately, I used PP and was able to recoup most of the money. I started the case with them after I saw the negative feedback starting to show up on his trader page. I did my purchase off board so I did not leave feedback. Isn't that normal protocol?

Thanks,

MCS

[Skywalker]

Originally Posted by poker

Heres a short list of folks who have in the past took advantage of communities like ours. Keep in mind the list goes back quite a ways.

http://www.vitolas.net/wiki/scumbags/list

How do we add Dan to the list???

Is it possible to start a list of our own as a Sticky (with rules of course)???

A couple of things.

My thanks to you who have either PM'd me, emailed me or spoken kind words here to me. It was not my intent this be a poor Fox thread, I went into this deal with my head up knowing that I could lose my money as I do on every deal.

It was to present the facts I had for others to be aware.

As for the legal action, I am in agreement with Poker.

An interesting point I didn't think of arrising from this was Vin's point that we all bear a culpability to provide honest trader feedback on all deals good and bad. Being a "nice guy" and not saying the truth compromises any value the trader feedback tool has to other users.

On a more smug note........I too am a firm believer in Karma..........Cigar Beetle, I like that.

[14holestogie]

Originally Posted by SilverFox

On a more smug note........I too am a firm believer in Karma..........Cigar Beetle, I like that.

Listen for the "pop."

[yourchoice]

Originally Posted by SilverFox

we all bear a culpability to provide honest trader feedback on all deals good and bad. Being a "nice guy" and not saying the truth compromises any value the trader feedback tool has to other users.

Originally Posted by MajorCaptSilly

I did my purchase off board so I did not leave feedback. Isn't that normal protocol?

I'm actually struggling with a similar question Scott. I have an "off board" deal that hasn't been satisfied and am not sure if neg feedback is appropriate. Since it's off board I can see why it shouldn't be, but if someone else got scammed by the same person and I didn't give neg feedback I'd feel pretty rotten.

[marge796]

There are bad apples in every bushel, unfortunately.





Chris.....

[Kreth]

Originally Posted by SilverFox

A couple of things.

My thanks to you who have either PM'd me, emailed me or spoken kind words here to me. It was not my intent this be a poor Fox thread, I went into this deal with my head up knowing that I could lose my money as I do on every deal.

Speaking as a noob, it's somewhat disheartening to see you and the others who responded here, who I've seen participate faithfully in all kinds of trades, PIFs, MAWs, bombs, etc; get taken like this.
I've been amazed by the the thoughtfulness and generosity of the members of this forum. Case in point, my new baby thread. It's usually the proud dad's job to hand out some sticks. Apparently not on CA. I have several packages headed my way from B(S)oTL here. I'm keeping tabs, and I'll certainly return the favor as well as bomb some fellow noobs as finances (and my current lack of sleep ) allow.

[HK3-]

Sorry to hear of your loss Shawn (and the others who were taken for a ride). I was invited to this GB and stood back because things seemed a bit fishy with this cat. Not long after he received payments I got a text message from him saying he was passing my exit off the highway coming from a western state where he drove to purchase a new dog. So, my point is that he did in fact have the $ to refund everyone but chose not to.

While I wish it could happen - I don't think legal action would be wise especially considering the fact that nobody was planning on paying the taxes that would have been owed on the products being purchased.