LOST Notes

[Mugen910]

pics continued.

[OLS]

Originally Posted by Mugen910

A theory! The rapturous blonde beauty he saw himself with, loving forever, was not Claire, but his season 2 Island temptress: the heroin-stuffed Virgin Mary statues. The painted hair? Blonde. The robes? Sky blue..

That's what I was thinking as it was coming out of Charlie's mouth. Great minds think alike.

[dannysguitar]

Everybody loves Hugo... Including me!

[mosesbotbol]

When that chick blew up, that was freaky! Should we trust Hugo? Not sure. This is getting awesome!

[Mugen910]

Well Jacob never actually touched Ilana so she wasn't saved I guess

[weak_link]

Why did she blow up again?

[kugie]

Originally Posted by weak_link

Why did she blow up again?

"DYNOMITE!!!!!"
To Quote JJ from Good Times

[kugie]

I agreet his is getting good.
Some one posted about everyone at the Hospital what will happen when they all get there?
I still think Jack has a big part in taking over Jacobs spot. The fact that he is just giving people little pushes but not truely interfering. The "do you trust me", comment he made to someone not to long ago..
Of course I am most likely completely wrong and the show will do something that will throw everyone off.

I don't know if this was posted but I guess the final Sceene has not even been shot yet. So the cast doesn't know what is going to happen yet.

[Mugen910]

LOST season 6, ep# 11 "Everybody Loves Hugo"



1) The local movie theatre Chunky’s in Nashua,NH and Pelham,NH will be showing the finale for free! You might want to check your local small theatre for the same.



2) Ilana: Guess the island was done with her. The book that Hurley found in her belongings was Dostoevsky's Notes from the Underground: considered to be the first existentialist novel. The author's philosophy of the mind: tortured and tumultuous, torn between action and passivity, a collection of conflicted voices that has been likened to schizophrenia. The protagonist reflects on an event and comes to conclusions about himself and his relationship to society, art and any number of things. An important theme is the attempt to take control of one's life, to manufacture experience into identity, birth consciousness out of suffering, and then live to fail and learn anew.



3) Michael: The whispers - "we're the ones who can't move on." Can they not move on because the flash-sideways world was created or is it because they have done something bad/ wrong/ immoral? So, is it Purgatory? The show's creators have said that the island is not Purgatory... did they lie to throw us off? Maybe the LOSTIES are not in purgatory, but people who died on the island are? However, what Michael said doesn’t really jive with the Catholic belief of what Purgatory is.



4) Hurley:

* It seems that the ones who can trigger the island memories in the flash-sideways world are the ones who have died on the Island. First Charlie, then Daniel, then Libby.
* Never lingered on his own reflection like the other flash-sideways characters.
* Remember the reason Hurley was in the mental institution? He had come to believe that his weight was responsible for a deck collapse at a party that killed two people. He blew up the Black Rock to prevent people from getting themselves killed (as Michael warned would happen). Hurley has guilt issues, to say the least.
* Found the bag of Jacob’s ashes in Ilana’s belongings.
* Hurley didn't remember anything until he was placed into a situation familiar to the island timeline. Once he had the picnic, once he kissed Libby, that's when he remembered. This is exactly what happened to Desmond last episode. His memory was triggered by an event that occurred in both timelines: seeing Charlie through a pane of glass, underwater. It's also what happened to jog Charlie's memory: doing drugs in the bathroom of Flight 815 was the connection for him, because it's something that happened in both the flash-sideways and island worlds.



5) Libby:

* So why hasn't Libby visited Hurley, as a ghost, on the island? Because she had been allowed to move on? Was she allowed to move on because she didn't meet the criteria to be an Island-bound whisperer: she lacked a burden of guilt, had nothing to atone for?
* In the flash-sideways, she tells Hurley she was watching a Mr. Cluck commercial when the rush of emotion struck her. This screams back to the first time we saw Daniel Faraday off-island, sobbing as he watched footage of the crash of Flight 815. Daniel cried back then without even understanding where those emotions were coming from - just as Libby did here.



6) Desmond:

1. Flocke offered his hand to Desmond to help him up...Desmond accepted it, which Sun and Kate both refused to do in earlier episodes. What does it mean?
2. The cut on the right side of his flash-sideways forehead is the same as the one he has in the flash-sideways. See attached photos (kinda hard to see b/c the island is dark or shaded in most photos).
3. When Ben asked Desmond his son’s name there was no hesitation when he answered “Charlie.” Flash-sideways Desmond of course has no son. It seems that Desmond is fully aware of his other life and that has a lot to do with his lack of fear towards Flocke.
4. The license plate on Desmond's car changes from one scene to the next. When he drives away after watching Libby and Hurley on the beach the plate on the car was 4PCI264. When he drove through the parking lot to mow Locke down, the plate read 2FAN321. Was it a shout-out to a fan or something more perplexing? (Both of these plate numbers are different than Desmond’s plate last week, which was the same as Jack’s and Nadia’s in previous weeks).
5. Why did Desmond run over flash-sideways Locke? One possibility is that Desmond tried to kill Sideways Locke to prevent Smokey from migrating into Sideways Locke's body… although it may be cruel that Desmond would basically murder an innocent man just to prevent his future corruption… just like how Sayid shot young Ben.
6. Have we been being shown two sideways worlds?

· At Mr. Clucks, Hurley doesn't recognize Desmond. At the airport Hurley very clearly recognized Desmond from the plane. However, at Mr. Clucks even after Desmond mentions flight 815, Hurley shows no recognition at all.

· Then there are the two different license plates on Desmond’s car…

· Hurley tells Desmond in the airport that flight 815 luggage is at baggage claim 4, but then Desmond and Claire get their bags at baggage claim 2.

· On the plane with Jack, Desmond is wearing a wedding ring, but in the car with George Minkowski, he's not married (Minkowski even points out “I see you’re not wearing a ring” before offering to get Desmond a “lady”).

· "The butterfly effect is a common trope in fiction when presenting scenarios involving time travel and with "what if" scenarios where one storyline diverges at the moment of a seemingly minor event resulting in two significantly different outcomes."
Note: The butterflies in the drawing on the wall behind Libby at Santa Rosa, the butterfly on the Black Rock with Richard, "For want of a nail" is actually a poem describing the chaos theory which was also referenced by that same scene.



7) Jungle boy: Clearly aggravates Flocke. The boy's smirk before he ran off had to mean something, like he was pleased. Why does he have blond hair sometimes and brown hair at other times? See attached photos…



8) Flocke: John Locke's mannerisms have been shining through Smokey lately... same expressions, phrases, stick carving. Maybe he can't suppress certain aspects of John's persona from exhibiting themselves and that will help lead to his downfall?



9) Previews: Next week's previews were played with the Willie Wonka Rowing Song in the background (very creepy)... here are the lyrics:

There's no earthly way of knowing
Which direction we are going
There's no knowing where we're rowing
Or which way the river's flowing
Is it raining? Is it snowing?
Is a hurricane a-blowing?
Not a speck of light is showing
So the danger must be growing
Are the fires of Hell a-glowing?
Is the grisly reaper mowing?
Yes! The danger must be growing
For the rowers keep on rowing
And they're certainly not showing
Any signs that they are slowing!!!



Remember that, like Jacob, Willie Wonka was looking for a replacement too.



10) Seinfeld shout-out: Hurley and his mother were going to another award ceremony for Hurley's contribution to the Human Fund. The Human Fund was a charity George Costanza made up so he could give a gift to his boss & others without spending money.

11) Bruce Springsteen shout-out: Spanish Johnny is the restaurant where Hurley was supposed to meet his blind date. It's also a character in the Springsteen song ''Incident at 57th Street,'' in which the young romantic is described as being ''dressed just like dynamite.'' You can find the song on the same album that includes the song that shares its title with the name of the woman Hurley was supposed to meet at the restaurant: Rosalita.

12) Work theme: Fugitive Kate runs. Pregnant Claire carries a life. Locke lost his job, felt emasculated, scrambled to get one back. Jack, Sayid, Ben, Sawyer, Jin, Desmond: career-absorbed men. We often see that the sideways characters are largely defined by what they do — by their business/ work. The cost of all this struggling and striving has been a diminished ability and interest for introspection. The characters that have had mirror/ reflection moments have detected something worth thinking about, but don't. One of the concerns of existentialist literature — especially Dostoyevsky — was how both Communist and Capitalist cultures left their citizens too fatigued for the work of personal enrichment, i.e. enlightenment. The psychologist Erich Fromm saw an even more profound problem: he believed a culture of work was crippling our capacity for love. It's interesting that the sideways character that has come the closest to having a self-generated moment of clarity while looking in a mirror was its only unabashed romantic, who was not defined by her work: Sun.

Enter Sideways Hurley, who both subverted and affirmed the theme. We met him as he was being celebrated for his work as... a giver. Hurley didn't get a conventional mirror moment. Instead, he got a short film praising his extraordinary and extensive philanthropy.

13) Saint Sebastian hospital: The hospital where Jack works, where Claire is getting her baby checked out, where Jin is taking Sun (gunshot wound), where Charlie is getting treated (car accident), where Locke is, probably, on his way to.... The story of Saint Sebastian has many LOST links. If you are interested in reading about him go here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Sebastian



14) The Well: There seems to be some confusion about which well this is. I believe this was NOT the well that Locke traveled down to turn the wheel. That well is under the Orchid Station, in the jungle. This well, was in a clearing, no Orchid Station.



There is a Chinese folk tale called ''The Man Who Was Thrown Down a Well'' that tells the story of an unredeemed soul who gets unjustly thrown into a well where he encounters spirits who are trapped and yearn to move on into the afterlife. They help do his penance and become a better person, and then after three years (the same amount of time Desmond spent in The Hatch) the man returns to the surface world, forgives the man who threw him into the well and fulfills his promise to help free the lost, trapped souls.



15) Angstrom the bunny: Angstrom the rabbit from last week was, most likely, a reference to the comic book villain Angstrom Levy from the Invincible series. He is a character who has the ability to travel between different realities.

[dannysguitar]

WOW! Thanks for the recap. I'm subscribing to the theory that we are seeing an alternate to the alternate universe.... :-)

[Brutus2600]

Found this thread and I've gotta agree...this season with how they're wrapping things up is pretty amazing. I can't wait to go back and watch the entire series to see it with the full understanding of what everything is all about.

[Eleven]

3. When Ben asked Desmond his son’s name there was no hesitation when he answered “Charlie.” Flash-sideways Desmond of course has no son. It seems that Desmond is fully aware of his other life and that has a lot to do with his lack of fear towards Flocke.

Flash Sideways Desmond had dealt with Charlie before the encounter with Ben. Told by Charles to go get Charlie, Charlie driving the car into the water, the hospital scenes, etc etc. My thoughts were that he just said Charlie real fast because of his recent dealings with Flash Sideways Charlie, not real son Charlie that he and Penny had.

Either could work I suppose.

[kugie]

In th pics of the Boy is it just me or does he look like he is getting older?

[OLS]

Next week he will fully become Matt Damon and we will realize that ALL this is actually just
a script idea that he and Ben Affleck had in high school. See the connection?? BEN?
The losties are HUNTING for GOOD WILL?

[Mugen910]

A great theory from a LOST website. The writer goes into detail regarding how the seasons are mirroring each other:

“I can't help but think that the vast majority of viewers (including here) are missing an amazing aspect of how the story of Lost is told. I see a lot of people complaining about how Ilana died, this week. In and of itself, Ilana's death was contrived and lame.

But her death was not a stand-alone thing. It is part of a huge story that has been carefully crafted and woven together since Season 1. They say history repeats itself, but on this island, this is true to the Nth degree. We are seeing the same situations and scenarios play out, over and over again. It mostly follows a patter of Season 6 mirroring Season 1..... and 5 mirroring 2 .... and 4 mirroring 3. So it is kind of like an A-B-C-C-B-A pattern. Mirror image. (Hence the mirror references in the final season, to draw attention to the idea of mirror-imaging.) The show has always been about duality -- black & white, free will & destiny, the Losties and vs Others, Locke vs Ben, the beach vs the jungle/cave, Jacob vs the MIB, and on and on and on. Duality is at the heart of the design of the whole show, and the mirror-image structure of the storytelling is a major tool to demonstrate this in both obvious and subtle ways.

I could go on for pages and pages of examples of this phenomenon, and this is actually my single favorite aspect of the storytelling on the show! And Ilana's death is YET another example of this pattern. Her death replicates the death of Arzt in Season 1, and this is intentional, part of an intentional, grander and more intricate pattern. Here are a few other, quick examples:

Remember how Sayid was tied down on a table, electrical wires attached to him to shock him, in order to aquire information about him, in a dwelling place that is hidden within the jungle. This was carried out by someone who lost their child and doesn't know if they'll ever see their child again. This happened in Season 1 . . . and Season 6!

-------------------
SEASON 1 - While searching for answers to the island's mysteries, Jack is led by a mysterious man to find a cave, next to water. Inside is a black stone and a white stone, and various personal belongings, including a baseball bat. Alongside the cave is Charlie's guitar. Christian's body appears to have been removed. Jack almost fell off a cliff while searching for his father, and this led him to the cave. But, Locke reached out and took his hand and saved him.

SEASON 6 - While searching for answers to the island's mysteries, Sawyer is led by a mysterious man (FLocke) to a cave next to water. Inside is a black stone and a white stone, and various personal belongings, including a baseball glove. Just inside the cave is a lute (an ancient guitar). The name of Locke (who took Christian's place on Ajira 816) is removed, crossed out. Sawyer almost falls of a cliff while being taken to this cave, but FLocke reaches out and takes his hand and saves him.
------------------------

SEASON 1 - Sun, an Asian character who hides many secrets, shows her skill at healing with herbal remedies.

SEASON 6 - Dogen, an Asian character who hides many secrets, shows his skill in the use of herbal medicines.
------------------------

SEASON 1 - Sun can speak English, while Jin can't.

SEASON 6 - Jin can speak English, while Sun can't.
------------------------

SEASON 1 - Sayid is a man who is ashamed of his violent past, and of how certain authority figures pressed him into service to them, to hurt innocent people for his boss's gain. Sayid's leg is injured in the process of being caught in a trap. He is caught by the person who set the trap, Rousseau. He passes out, and she takes him to her hidden home, where she interrogates him about her child, which she says was kidnapped by the Others.

SEASON 6 - Jin is a man who is ashamed of his violent past, and of how certain authority figures pressed him into service to them, to hurt innocent people for his boss's gain. Jin's leg is injured when he is caught in a trap. He is caught by the person who set the trap, Claire. He passes out, and she takes him to her hidden home, where she interrogates someone else she captured along with Jin, asking him about her child, which she says was kidnapped by the Others.
----------------------

SEASON 1 - Hurley decides that everyone needs to know who each other is, so he starts a census, which leads him to getting the ship manifest with the list of all the survivors on it. Many of the names are crossed off, having been "eliminated" (by death) in the crash or immediately afterward. By going over the list, Hurley figures out that one of the survivors is not a survivor, but is really an outsider pretending to be one of them... someone who had already been on the island for a long time!

SEASON 6 - Hurley is used by Jacob to take Jack to the Lighthouse, where they find the mirrors and the giant dial with the names of all of the candidates written on it. Many of the names are crossed out, having been eliminated. Meanwhile, FLocke takes Sawyer (who in Season 1 had the manifest) to the cave by the sea, and also shows him the names of candidates. Many are crossed off. It is around this time that Sawyer also learns that Locke is not really Locke, at all. He is an outsider pretending to be a survivor... but is really someone who had already been on the island for a long time!
-----------------------

SEASON 2 - Desmond is waiting for his replacement, and uses a riddle as a password to determine whether a person is there to help with his mission. (What did one snowman say to the other snowman? "Smells like carrots.") Note: this riddle also appeared in Season 1, briefly, before Desmond ever appeared.

SEASON 5 - Ilana is searching for Jacob's replacement, and uses a riddle as a password to determine whether someone is involved in her mission. (What lies in the shadow of the statue? "He who will save us all.") Note: this riddle also appears in Season 6, thus mirroring Season 1, while 2 mirrors 5.
-----------------------

SEASON 2 - Jin appears to have been completely lost at sea, possibly dead, after the raft he's on is destroyed by an explosive. There is no sign of him. However, later, he is found on the island, having washed ashore there.

SEASON 5 - Jin appears to have been completely lost at sea, possibly dead, after the ship he's on is destroyed by an explosive. There is no sign of him. However, later, he is found on the island, having washed ashore there.
------------------

SEASON 2 - Sawyer tells Jin his arm is going to fall off.

SEASON 5 - Jin sees the French science team member's arm ripped off.
----------------

SEASON 2: The survivors explored a lot of the various hatches and locations of Dharma. Several of the survivors are taken prisoner by the Others and stay with them for a while in one of the Dharma locations. They are gone from the survivors camp for nearly 3 weeks.

SEASON 5: Some of the survivors went to the Dharma village, where they lived for 3 years among the Dharma people, going around to a lot of the Dharma hatches and locations.
----------------

SEASON 2: Sawyer gets possession of all of the guns and declares himself "sheriff"

SEASON 5: Sawyer is put in charge of the guns as he becomes the Dharma sheriff
--------------------

SEASON 2: Ben (aka Henry Gale) is tortured by Sayid and held captive by Jack and other survivors, but one of the survivors betrays the rest by risking everything to rescue Ben, even though he knows Ben is the leader of the Others and is responsible for many terrible things.

SEASON 5: A young Ben is shot by Sayid. Jack and others stand by and refuse to help Ben, but another survivor takes it upon herself to risk everything to rescue young Ben, even knowing he will be the leader of the Others and will be responsible for many terrible things.
------------------

SEASON 2: They found their way to the hatch. They argued over whether to do something (push the button) in the hatch. The season ended with a lot of arguing over whether to push the button, and finally they don't push the button, and BOOM!

SEASON 5: They found their way to (what would be) the hatch, where they argued over whether to use some modern technology (bomb) to counteract the island's dangerous "energy." And then "pushed the button" and blew it up (or more accurately, it imploded, just like the hatch did in Season 2).

(Note: "Pushing the button" is an old euphemism from the Cold War days that referred to dropping a nuclear weapon.)
-------------------------

SEASON 3 - Introduces mystery of the people from the Kahana

SEASON 4 - Reveals the truth about the people from the Kahana
-------------------

SEASON 3 - Juliet tries to conspire to kill Ben when he is helpless, but Jack refuses and saves him. Ben lives.

SEASON 4 - Sayid conspires to kill Ben when he is helpless (a child), Jack refuses to save him. Ben lives.
----------------

SEASON 3 - Ben shoots Locke and leaves him for dead in the mass grave. Locke tries to commit suicide, but fails.

SEASON 4 - Locke tries to commit suicide, but fails. Then, Ben kills Locke. (Reverse order from what happened in Season 3)
------------------

SEASON 3 - Hatch catastrophically implodes, causing Desmond to bounce around in time

SEASON 4 - Donkey Wheel breaks, catastrophically effecting the island and causing survivors to bounce around in time
. . . . . [note: in Season 2, Locke lowers Kate down into the hatch flume, but something interrupts it and she disappears,
and then in Season 5, Locke is lowered into the well above the Donkey Wheel, but is interrupted and he falls and disappears]
---------------

SEASON 4 - Ben turns donkey wheel, goes to outside world and recruits Sayid

SEASON 5 - Locke turns donkey wheel, goes to outside world to recruit other survivors
--------------

SEASON 4 - Desmond starts out without Penny, ends up with her

SEASON 5 - Desmond starts with Penny, ends up shot and thus taken away from her

. . .
One of my favorite (although more minor) examples is the "return" of Charlie's peanut butter, a couple episodes ago in Season 6. Remember Charlie's (imaginary) peanut butter, which he offered to Claire to try to lift her spirits in Season 1? Just recently, in the Smoking Club's camp, Sawyer came up next to Kate and offered her some "hot cocoa" to try to make her feel better. She asked where she found some hot cocoa on the island...? "I didn't," he said. "Just pretend."

There are other examples I could cite. This is just a few, because the list is too long to post here, completely. But these show a clear and definite pattern. And Ilana's death is a part of that very intentional pattern. Yes, it's contrived... for a reason. Season 1 was giving us numerous pictures of what we would see in the final season! And Season 2 showed us many things we could expect to see in the next-to-last season, and so on! And I, for one, think it's awesome! On this island, history repeats itself... to the extreme. And no matter how much free will you try to exercise... this "curse" will catch up with you and make you a part of its mirror-image storytelling.”

[Brutus2600]

Originally Posted by Mugen910

A great theory from a LOST website. The writer goes into detail regarding how the seasons are mirroring each other:

<cut text>

That's pretty amazing...I've watched from season 1 and never saw that. I really like this writeup!

[Jack Straw]

Great Episode!

Also, check out this interview: http://www.wired.com/magazine/2010/04/ff_lost/8/

Interesting read!

[OLS]

It would be really great though, if a show was as clever as this show is made out to be,
but instead of alienating half of it's viewers over 5-6 years, kept them gripped for
three years and accomplished the same thing in the end. I am going to watch the show finale
and all the crap I have to put up with to get there, but I quit liking this show a LLOoonng time ago.

[weak_link]

Last night seemed like more fluff and not enough meat & potatoes. Time is running out and I don't feel like we're making enough progress. Then I'll be sad when it ends and I can't complain about the fluff.

[Mugen910]

Originally Posted by weak_link

Last night seemed like more fluff and not enough meat & potatoes. Time is running out and I don't feel like we're making enough progress. Then I'll be sad when it ends and I can't complain about the fluff.

You're from SF...you'll always have fluff to complain about big boy