Fourth Annual Fantasy Football for Stakes and the Troops

[shilala]

I don't think TE/WR/RB is an option. Neither is the option I suggested. Oh yeah, it is. I'd agree to that in order to leave waivers as is.
I freakin HATE waivers and waiver priority order, Cole. I understand that lots of guys can't be right on it when it comes to grabbing players because of other obligations. It bites everyone in the ass equally. But I have always felt that the guy who works the hardest should win this game, not the guy who waits 2 days to check his team. I'm thinking of my BIL when I mention this.
My BIL seldom even sets his team in the money league after I draft a monster for him, and he still wins. He doesn't even replace guys who are hurt, and he still wins. That pisses me off.
If a guy pounds the airwaves, internet, and his cell phone for constant FF content, it should give him an edge. Waivers and waiver priority erases that edge and it sucks. Even if it bites me in the ass cause I'm at Family Day every Sunday, I'd rather see Matt snipe a backup RB than someone else get him who didn't even set their team for the week. That'd make me nuts.

That said, if you guys want waivers and waiver priority, you got it. We just need 5 guys to want it and I'll change it., cause it really is a "standard setting". Or you and I can toss a coin. Or whatever you think is fair.
Dammit, I hate waivers.

[chaase321]

Originally Posted by shilala

I don't think TE/WR/RB is an option. Neither is the option I suggested. Oh yeah, it is. I'd agree to that in order to leave waivers as is."Oh yeah, it is" refers to what? the TE/WR/RB, or the TE/WR/RB/QB?
I freakin HATE waivers and waiver priority order, Cole. I understand that lots of guys can't be right on it when it comes to grabbing players because of other obligations. It bites everyone in the ass equally. But I have always felt that the guy who works the hardest should win this game, not the guy who waits 2 days to check his team. I'm thinking of my BIL when I mention this.
My BIL seldom even sets his team in the money league after I draft a monster for him, and he still wins. He doesn't even replace guys who are hurt, and he still wins. That pisses me off.
If a guy pounds the airwaves, internet, and his cell phone for constant FF content, it should give him an edge. Waivers and waiver priority erases that edge and it sucks. Even if it bites me in the ass cause I'm at Family Day every Sunday, I'd rather see Matt snipe a backup RB than someone else get him who didn't even set their team for the week. That'd make me nuts.

That said, if you guys want waivers and waiver priority, you got it. We just need 5 guys to want it and I'll change it., cause it really is a "standard setting". Or you and I can toss a coin. Or whatever you think is fair.
Dammit, I hate waivers.

I understand your frustration with the waiver priority....here is another method that I am using in my other league that I run with work colleges...

Basically this is how it works:

In a Free Agents Acquisition Budgets (FAAB) waivers system, each manager receives a dollar amount (say $100) to place blind bids on players that are on waivers. The manager with the highest bid at the end of the waiver period claims that player and that bid amount is deducted from the team's acquisition budget.

FAAB Rules

The FAAB does not apply to free-agent pickups. All free agents can be picked up on a first-come, first-serve basis, without bids. In other words, if no one bids on a player, you can pick him up for free after the bidding is resolved. Bids are hidden to other managers until a player clears waivers. The winning bid will display in the Transaction log. Players with multiple bids placed on them will display under "FAAB Bids" on a league's Transactions log.
The FAAB system charges you the exact amount you bid if your bid is successful. It will never automatically adjust your bid to beat any other bids by $1.
The default FAAB budget for teams is usually $100.
You can submit $0 bids, and if no one else bids more, you will be able to claim that player.
There isn't an option to force managers to make a minimum bid amount.

FAAB tiebreakers

If multiple managers place an equal bid on a player, there are three tiebreaker options:

Continual rolling list: Waiver claims are processed in waiver priority order and each successful claim moves a manager to the end of the waiver priority list.
Reverse order of standings (Football only): Waiver claims are processed in reverse order of standings and successful claims do not affect waiver priority list.
Weekly rolling list based on standings (Football only): Waiver claims are processed in reverse order of standings and each successful claim moves a manager to the end of the waiver priority list.
Note: The priority list only changes when it is used to break a tie between two owners who submit identical bids. If a team submits the highest bid and the tiebreaker is not needed to award the player, the priority list remains unchanged following that claim.

what do you think? it gives everyone a shot...but also, if you think this guy is going to be a big impact (say a back-up RB for a guy that just broke his leg) and not everyone knows about him yet, or you have done more homework, then you can place your "silent" bid at what you think he is worth.

We can set the waiver priority to 1 day instead of 2 days...and then also, after that period is up, all other players left out there are Free Agents, and anyone can pick them up without having to make a silent bid.

[shilala]

That's a cool setup, but it's also too much to manage.
Maybe we're talking about 2 different things. I'm really talking about picking up free agents and the pain waivers brings to it.
Take your example about the backup RB, I can just immediately grab him.
If the player I drop would go on waivers, and be subject to waiver priority, that's cool with me.

Problem is, and correct me if I'm wrong, Yahoo places every free agent on waivers when you pick him up. Then everyone and their brother can hop on that same player, all plying on the initial guy's FF smarts and him getting squat for his effort.
Plus it's highly likely it's HIS RB that got his leg broke, and he's trying to stay alive by immediately tying up that team's backup RB. To do that he'd have to drop a good bench player to make space since his broken legged guy already played, and that's the cost of doing business, or the insult added to injury, if you will.

So my contention is this:
If Free Agents were not subject to Waivers in any fashion, I'd be cool with waivers and waiver priority. I'm okay with dropped players being placed on waivers, because they are inherently valuable unless they're injured and out for the season, or something like that.

There is a way to kind of implement the "bidding" process, and that would be to simply limit how many moves a team can make. We can set waiver moves to 10 or 20 per season, or whatever seems reasonable. I don't think that's necessary either, but if I shorten the number of players on teams, there are likely to be a lot more waiver moves. But I like that. It's playing the game, and a very fun part of FF strategy.

I'm trying to change my mind, but it's kinda like trying to stick a wet noodle up a wildcat's ass. I'm getting nowhere fast and it's painful.

Oh, I just caught your highlighted thing...
I think both my idea and yours are available options. The TE/WR/RB, and the TE/WR/RB/QB. I just double checked, and they both are, yes.
With the way we changed things, QB is going to be less valuable than a 1st string RB, WR, or top 3 TE. WR being shaky unless there are a few monsters this year. But that's debatable.
I think the TE/WR/RB may be something guys would like. I was just shooting for a real "flex play" by including the QB, but that's not at all necessary. Neither are necessary, really, but it might make things easier as players get hurt.

[chaase321]

The waiver wire that we had last year works for me this year...now that i know what it is from the start of the season rather than a few weeks in. I was always used to the 2-day waiting period.

However, I would like us to vote on maybe a waiver "cap" (say 20-25 acquisitions). What do you all think about that?

[chaase321]

Also, after just now finally looking at the scoring online, I have a couple things that I want to put up for vote...

*NOTE* Scott, maybe we can get all of these things together from this thread in about a week or 2, and send the out to everyone via PM to vote on??

...Can we take away the -1 point for kickers missing a kick over 40+ yards? I hate when a kicker tries a 62 yrd kick right at the half just to see if he can pick up a few points and the miss gets me -1. I think from a kicking standpoint, if you miss inside 40 yrds, then you deserve to have a point deduction, but over 40 is a little worse percentages...I would also be open to 50+ being the only one where you don't get a 1 point deduction. What do you all think?

[chaase321]

Also (i'm keeping each one of my items separate to help be able to recognize them later), I am all for giving bonuses for people that hit certain milestones in a game.

i.e. QB throwing for 300 yrds in a game gets 2 bonus points...400+ yards get 5 bonus points.

RB running for 100 yrds in a game gets 3 bonus points...150 yrds gets 5 bonus points.
Same thing for WRs

With the QB touchdowns only worth 4 points, the QBs are going to be seriously devalued this year...adding a bonus would help and would reward someone who drafts an excellent QB in the first couple of rounds.

Again...up for discussion and vote.

[Mattso3000]

I was thinking that as well, Cole. A 50+ field goal shouldn't have a penalty for a miss.

That was a lot of reading for the waiver rules... I like the idea of the auction, we do that in another league I'm in and it works well. If yahoo does not have functionality for it though, Scott is right and it would be way too much work. I'm also not a fan of waivers in general as it gives certain teams an advantage when diligence should be its own reward. We could move back the time on FA availability to tues. afternoon or wed. morning to allow more of a chance for everyone to take a look at the pool instead of just opening it up at 8 AM. Just an idea.

[shilala]

Cole, I don't think any of those tweaks require a discussion or a vote. They're just minor compared to how drastically we overhauled the scoring, and they are all excellent ideas that I'm sure nobody will be upset about.
I think you can make all those changes yourself, I gave you Co-Commissioner access. I wanted to make us both commissioners but it wouldn't let me. I have no idea if there's any access restrictions for co-commisioners, but this would be a great time for you to check it out.

So far as the waiver cap goes, let's start high, see how it works out, and decrease it after we say how it plays in? I'm thinking 2 a week is more than reasonable, so how about 35?
I know Weeze's league gets 10, but they can get an unlimited amount if they pay for them. That'd be an awesome way to get troop cigars, but we don't have that ability in Yahoo, I don't believe. Meaning I don't think we can add waiver moves to individual teams at will.
But we COULD set waivers at unlimited because it shows how many moves guys make. After ten we could charge 5 or 10 troop smokes for each waiver move. Something like that would need to be put up for a vote, though.
So why don't we start at 30ish, then see what the guys say if we ever get everyone signed up and involved?

[shilala]

I do think that we may have the functionality to halt FA pickups till Tuesday morning. I'd have to check that, and that's something that I'd accept as a compromise in lieu of the whole crappy waivers setup.
Halt moves till Tuesday and put a cap on the amount of moves and maybe charge for extra waiver moves..
That's a very nice compromise. I can't believe you guys talked me into it.
I don't think that needs a vote, either. It's all for the good of the troops, and that's what we're about. We could set the waiver cap at 10 and charge 5 troop sticks each for any waiver moves over that.

[shilala]

Cole, can you put all those things we want to do in one post?
If you and Matt and I are in agreement on all the points, that'll make it easy for you or me to change all the stuff at Yahoo.
I can easily do it, but I'd like you to at least try, just to see if you have access. If you don't have time for either, I'll get it. I'm just guessing you have time, but if you're banging this out at lunch I'll just do this crap till your life slows down a bit. I've got plenty of time right now.

[Mattso3000]

Good idea on the cap, Scott.

[shilala]

Now we just need Cole on board and we're set.

[chaase321]

Originally Posted by Mattso3000

I was thinking that as well, Cole. A 50+ field goal shouldn't have a penalty for a miss.

That was a lot of reading for the waiver rules... I like the idea of the auction, we do that in another league I'm in and it works well. If yahoo does not have functionality for it though, Scott is right and it would be way too much work. I'm also not a fan of waivers in general as it gives certain teams an advantage when diligence should be its own reward. We could move back the time on FA availability to tues. afternoon or wed. morning to allow more of a chance for everyone to take a look at the pool instead of just opening it up at 8 AM. Just an idea.

Sorry...that was a lot of talk about waivers!! lol.
I am cool with these three waiver options:

1.) a cap of 30 (as Scott suggested) and anything over results in troop sticks
2.) Not allowing waiver pickups until 2 days after the games are played (so Tuesday morning)...then have it be a free for all like in the past
3.) The auction process of buying guys on waivers.

Originally Posted by shilala

Cole, I don't think any of those tweaks require a discussion or a vote. They're just minor compared to how drastically we overhauled the scoring, and they are all excellent ideas that I'm sure nobody will be upset about.
I think you can make all those changes yourself, I gave you Co-Commissioner access. I wanted to make us both commissioners but it wouldn't let me. I have no idea if there's any access restrictions for co-commisioners, but this would be a great time for you to check it out.

So far as the waiver cap goes, let's start high, see how it works out, and decrease it after we say how it plays in? I'm thinking 2 a week is more than reasonable, so how about 35?
I know Weeze's league gets 10, but they can get an unlimited amount if they pay for them. That'd be an awesome way to get troop cigars, but we don't have that ability in Yahoo, I don't believe. Meaning I don't think we can add waiver moves to individual teams at will.
But we COULD set waivers at unlimited because it shows how many moves guys make. After ten we could charge 5 or 10 troop smokes for each waiver move. Something like that would need to be put up for a vote, though.
So why don't we start at 30ish, then see what the guys say if we ever get everyone signed up and involved?

I checked the site, I can make changes, and basically by you giving me co-commish rights, I can change all settings...the only thing I cannot do is "give" commish rights to anyone else, that's only you...but we should be good.

I'll make the scoring changes here soon on the site to do what we think about the bonuses and missed FGs. If anyone has any problems or reservations about those changes, it is a simple fix to change them back

[shilala]

Originally Posted by chaase321

Sorry...that was a lot of talk about waivers!! lol.
I am cool with these three waiver options:

1.) a cap of 30 (as Scott suggested) and anything over results in troop sticks
2.) Not allowing waiver pickups until 2 days after the games are played (so Tuesday morning)...then have it be a free for all like in the past
3.) The auction process of buying guys on waivers.



I checked the site, I can make changes, and basically by you giving me co-commish rights, I can change all settings...the only thing I cannot do is "give" commish rights to anyone else, that's only you...but we should be good.

I'll make the scoring changes here soon on the site to do what we think about the bonuses and missed FGs. If anyone has any problems or reservations about those changes, it is a simple fix to change them back

Excellent on the access and making changes. That's awesome.

1.) a cap of 30 (as Scott suggested) and anything over results in troop sticks
2.) Not allowing waiver pickups until 2 days after the games are played (so Tuesday morning)...then have it be a free for all like in the past
3.) The auction process of buying guys on waivers.

On 1, let's consider cutting that cap back.
My thinking is that we raised far fewer troop smokes than we should have last year. About 150 short of the previous year. That sucks ass. If this little dealio can pull in even 50-100 smokes that would be awesome. At 30 moves it may never come into play.
I decreased the team size, so there will be good FA's all the time. That should make for lots of waiver moves and lots of troop cigars.
If we do that, a cap of 15-20 is good.
I do like the auction process. It's just too much work to do and you'd be stuck with it, and you're already gonna be overworked. The "pay for waivers" is easy to follow and guys can self-report, or we just look at the league page.
I'm fine with #2. That's exactly what I was thinking. Open moves Tuesday morning at 8:00 (or 11:00 if we end up with any left coasters playing).
On 3, I covered that.

So we're really, really close.

[chaase321]

Everything is possible Scott. I can take care of it!!!

Here are the changes that were in question:

1. Kickers will no longer incur a -1 point deduction for missed FGs over 50 yards
2. The TE position will now be a QB/RB/WR/TE position
3. QBs that throw for 300-399 yards in a game will earn a 3pt bonus
4. QBs that throw for 400+ yards in a game will earn a 5pt bonus (NOTE, this IS an on top bonus...so if they throw for 400+ yards, they will earn 8 total bonus points)
5. RBs/WRs that run/receive for 100 yards in a game will earn a 3 pt bonus
6. RBs/WRs that run/receive for 150 yards in a game will earn a 5 pt bonus (Same ON TOP bonus as above)
7. The waiver wire:
- Waivers will not be allowed to be chosen until 8:00am CST (9am EST) on the TUESDAY after each weekend. This allows time for all managers to look at their teams.
- You will be limited to 15 waiver pick ups in the season for free...each waiver pick up after you use your 10 will result in you OWING 5 troop sticks PER WAIVER pick up.

If these are not all of the changes we have discussed, please quote this message and then add additional to it, so we can keep track.

[Mattso3000]

Looks good to me, Cole.

[shilala]

Absolutely perfect, Cole.
That waiver pickup rule needs to hit the rule book, and we need to make guys aware later.
We don't want everybody to smoke through their waivers and be mad when they're out.
Everything else they can see on Yahoo, we'll just let them know to check all the scoring and positions pre-draft so they draft accordingly.

[chaase321]

UPDATED

Everything is possible Scott. I can take care of it!!!

Here are the changes that were in question:

1. Kickers will no longer incur a -1 point deduction for missed FGs over 50 yards
2. The TE position will now be a QB/RB/WR/TE position
3. There will no longer be a Defensive Position to play
4. You will now start 7 players, and have 5 bench spots and 2 IR spots
5. QBs that throw for 300-399 yards in a game will earn a 3pt bonus
6. QBs that throw for 400+ yards in a game will earn a 5pt bonus (NOTE, this IS an on top bonus...so if they throw for 400+ yards, they will earn 8 total bonus points)
7. RBs/WRs that run/receive for 100 yards in a game will earn a 3 pt bonus
8. RBs/WRs that run/receive for 150 yards in a game will earn a 5 pt bonus (Same ON TOP bonus as above)
9. The waiver wire:
- Waivers will not be allowed to be chosen until 8:00am CST (9am EST) on the TUESDAY after each weekend. This allows time for all managers to look at their teams.
- You will be limited to 15 waiver pick ups in the season for free...each waiver pick up after you use your 10 will result in you OWING 5 troop sticks PER WAIVER pick up.

If these are not all of the changes we have discussed, please quote this message and then add additional to it, so we can keep track.

[chaase321]

Originally Posted by shilala

Absolutely perfect, Cole.
That waiver pickup rule needs to hit the rule book, and we need to make guys aware later.
We don't want everybody to smoke through their waivers and be mad when they're out.
Everything else they can see on Yahoo, we'll just let them know to check all the scoring and positions pre-draft so they draft accordingly.

Just looked at this Scott....

....Actually, I CANNOT edit anything dealing with Waivers or acquisitions. That is only in your hands.

[chaase321]

Only other thing I want to throw out there is:

Consideration of a 6 team playoff for 3 weeks, rather than a 4 team playoff for 2 weeks.

Up to you guys!