Noticable Curiosity

[RevSmoke]

I don't know that the tobacco that came out during the '90s boom wasn't aged before rolling. I think there are places that age it before selling it, only because it may look good right off the plant, but what happens in the aging process is also important.

A lot of things have been brought to our attention by the various comments here, and I like the thinking that has gone into this. It is seriously interesting to watch.

I'd like to give an example. Back in the '80s & '90s, I enjoyed a number of cigars that are still available today. Most of them I haven't visited since the turn of the century (2000), for when I moved I got rid of many cigars and traded them for quality pipes. I am talking like 1500 cigars for pipes and tobacco in trade. I only kept a couple hundred cigars on hand. Those didn't last more than a few years. When I look at what is in stock now, I must admit that there are not as many of those stalwart brands left.

Well, I heard about someone getting an El Rey del Mundo Robusto (a maduro wrapped in tissue) and thought about how much I used to enjoy them. I hadn't had one in quite a while, so I asked how they were smoking and how they compared. T-bone did one better, and he sent me a couple (3). I have smoked one of them, and was amazed at how it took me back to what I remember them to be. This wasn't an aged cigar, but that same cigar as it is produced today. What they are doing to get those same flavors that I enjoyed to be present in a contemporary smoke is beyond me. However, the mere fact of that consistency is incredible.

Can you say the same of other brands on the market today which are popular say here on CA? Do all Opus (of the same size) taste the same (or very similar) from year to year? How about Tats? Illusiones? Olivas? LFDs? Cains?

I know I have had cigar X from a well-loved brand, and then gotten another one a few months later, and I wasn't sure it was from the same marca, much less that same vitola, the flavor, aroma, character changed that much. And no, it wasn't the old flavors aged, it was significantly different.

Now, is that why some of these newer brands are putting out so many new releases, so that they can accomodate the tobacco that is available to them? Are they unable to produce that consistency because their tobacco larder isn't quite as large?

[RevSmoke]

Originally Posted by 357

If I remember correctly cigar sales nationally have surpassed the boom numbers of the 90s, only this time it was a steady increase every year rather than double digit ups and downs.

I think all the manufacturers are trying to get in on this overall increase in the sale of cigars. One of the more popular ways seems to be boutique brands and/or LEs. It is also probably easier to have a new LE each year than to try to maintain an existing one with new tobacco from year to year. I mean it can't be easy to make a 2011 Opus taste anything like a 2001 Opus. So in some ways, why bother? Just release a new named version every year Tat Fank, Tat Face, etc. Not to mention, new name = new buzz. Just a thought on LEs.

To be honest since I started leaning heavily toward CCs, all the buzz on the NC side is kind of white noise. Sure I'll try a single hear and there, but I'm not chomping at the bit to run out and buy a box of the newest Tat or whatever. Not to pic on Tatuaje, as they make fine smokes, I'm just using them as an example. Sure CCs have their own LE & RE, but I feel the same. I buy standard releases that I like. I can't afford all that limited and regional special release stuff.

I think the overall good sales of cigars has fostered this environment. If there was a dip for a couple years I think you'd see a lot of this boutique stuff fade, but the good ones would stick around.

OK, let's go there.

Do the CCs even produce cigars that taste the same. Seriously! Does a Montecristo #2 from 2004 taste (after 5 years) taste anything like a Monte #2 from 1984 (when it had 5 years)? What about the ones from 2010, will they be similar in 5 years to the other Monte #2s after 5 years? Is there a consistency even in the CC side of things? Or is that all over the map too, but they don't just start new brands - simply LEs or REs?

I am simply curious.

[wayner123]

Originally Posted by RevSmoke

OK, let's go there.

Do the CCs even produce cigars that taste the same. Seriously! Does a Montecristo #2 from 2004 taste (after 5 years) taste anything like a Monte #2 from 1984 (when it had 5 years)? What about the ones from 2010, will they be similar in 5 years to the other Monte #2s after 5 years? Is there a consistency even in the CC side of things? Or is that all over the map too, but they don't just start new brands - simply LEs or REs?

I am simply curious.

The short answer is no, it doesn't taste the same.

I am not sure what the original questions are at this point, but that may be my own dumbness. What are you wanting to know?

[RevSmoke]

Originally Posted by wayner123

The short answer is no, it doesn't taste the same.

I am not sure what the original questions are at this point, but that may be my own dumbness. What are you wanting to know?

HAHAHAHA!!! Go back and read the first post. There isn't really any specific one question we're dealing with, simply some musings and ponderings on the longevity of cigars... and why the growth and popularity of the newer brands...? and if they'll stay...? and why they're here...? and....

Yeah, that's it.

I think the first post sets a good pace and the conversation has revolved and evolved from there.

[wayner123]

Originally Posted by RevSmoke

HAHAHAHA!!! Go back and read the first post. There isn't really any specific one question we're dealing with, simply some musings and ponderings on the longevity of cigars... and why the growth and popularity of the newer brands...? and if they'll stay...? and why they're here...? and....

Yeah, that's it.

I think the first post sets a good pace and the conversation has revolved and evolved from there.

How are you defining new brands?

[357]

Originally Posted by RevSmoke

OK, let's go there.

Do the CCs even produce cigars that taste the same. Seriously! Does a Montecristo #2 from 2004 taste (after 5 years) taste anything like a Monte #2 from 1984 (when it had 5 years)? What about the ones from 2010, will they be similar in 5 years to the other Monte #2s after 5 years? Is there a consistency even in the CC side of things? Or is that all over the map too, but they don't just start new brands - simply LEs or REs?

I am simply curious.

I believe they try to keep them consistant, but their success is up for debate. Of course like wine, certain years are better than others. Of course "better" for me might be worse for another. I feel they are relatively consistant within a marca, but not necessarily within a vitola; if that makes any sense. Again my experience is limited.

I know my answers are as solid as jello.

[RevSmoke]

Originally Posted by wayner123

How are you defining new brands?

Yep!

You define it as you see fit. Go back to the first post and you'll see what I wrote - I don't think I gave "new brands" a definitive age. To me, anything that has appeared since 2001 would be a new brand, someone else might define it differently.

Someone who has been smoking since Jan. 2011 finds all of them both new and old at the same time. They are new to him, but they've been around since before he started smoking.

I guess it is relative. You can use my definition (see above) or your own.

Sorry, that probably didn't help much.

[76GTFan]

The internet has caused a huge increase in interest across the board. I worked in a shop in '95-'97. I never saw the market as vast. Better product now.....if I remember. I remember when CAO had a much better product than they do now. Griffins were popular and cheap. Hemingways were flying off the shelf. Opus was impossible to find. Dunhills and Excalibur's were very popular.

I think of the most consistent line still alive and I would say Padron or JDN. With that said I am enjoying the selection now more than any time in the past.

[RevSmoke]

Originally Posted by 76GTFan

The internet has caused a huge increase in interest across the board. I worked in a shop in '95-'97. I never saw the market as vast. Better product now.....if I remember. I remember when CAO had a much better product than they do now. Griffins were popular and cheap. Hemingways were flying off the shelf. Opus was impossible to find. Dunhills and Excalibur's were very popular.

I think of the most consistent line still alive and I would say Padron or JDN. With that said I am enjoying the selection now more than any time in the past.

I watched over the shop in Naugatuck from '94-'00 sometimes for the owner. I don't know that the product was better. Perdomos just came on the scene, and they had some lines that are now gone - they were excellent. I don't know that CAOs were any better then than they are now. Griffins were about the same price and sort of popular. Hemingways you couldn't touch. Opus were limited to 2 sticks per day. Excaliburs were popular, as were Punch.

The JDNs have changed significantly, from what I recall. I will wholeheartedly agree that Padrosn are still much the same today as they were - Punch, ERdM, and HdM were some of the popular brands that are also very consistent to that day.

Surpisingly, Hemingways are much different than they were, and the regular production AFs seem to be a bit different.

Of course, we need to factor in the evolution of our own personal tastes as we consider these things. We may like something better or worse today, but it may not have changed. In the same token, something may have changed signifanctly and we like it better than we did.

Just some more musings.

[NCRadioMan]

Make no mistake, we are in the middle of another cigar boom. The difference is, the manufacturer's have not been caught with their pants down like in the 90's. They have been preparing for another one ever since so the same things won't happen.

[muhren]

Since this is a broad spectrum thinking kinda of thing. Here is another thought.

I was talking to Steve Saka at one point, and he said something like 'you know 98% of cigar smokers aren't on the internet and forums.' I don't know if he was making up that fact or not, BUT it may seem like some brands are hot (because they're referenced a lot on a forum via discussions) when in actual sales figures (like the first post states) they're not even close to the big old boys.

Also, the Internet and forums specifically are a relatively new medium (considering the 2001 start date to this line of thought) and the new companies are a little more savvy and involved in shaping discussions about their brands.

Lastly, as a point WAY off topic...for discussion's sake, it's more "fun" to talk about a new release than it is to say something like "I smoked another X because its consistent"

Comparative example...Other folks don't want to know you've been sleeping with your wife for 30 years (even though it's been great for both of you). They want to read about what that college kid did last night after that party when he went home with those two hot girls.

Folks want to READ sizzle. I'm sure most would like to SMOKE consistent.

My

M

[RevSmoke]

Originally Posted by muhren

Since this is a broad spectrum thinking kinda of thing. Here is another thought.

I was talking to Steve Saka at one point, and he said something like 'you know 98% of cigar smokers aren't on the internet and forums.' I don't know if he was making up that fact or not, BUT it may seem like some brands are hot (because they're referenced a lot on a forum via discussions) when in actual sales figures (like the first post states) they're not even close to the big old boys.

Also, the Internet and forums specifically are a relatively new medium (considering the 2001 start date to this line of thought) and the new companies are a little more savvy and involved in shaping discussions about their brands.

Lastly, as a point WAY off topic...for discussion's sake, it's more "fun" to talk about a new release than it is to say something like "I smoked another X because its consistent"

Comparative example...Other folks don't want to know you've been sleeping with your wife for 30 years (even though it's been great for both of you). They want to read about what that college kid did last night after that party when he went home with those two hot girls.

Folks want to READ sizzle. I'm sure most would like to SMOKE consistent.

My

M

What a great addition to this thread. Thanks!

I am guessing Saka was right, and furthermore, the majority of cigars sold are machine made and sold in such places as Walgreens and the corner gas station.

I also like the idea of what we talk about. Athough I might have used a different illustration, because I've been married 26 years, and lovemaking is better than ever - but I'm also not going to talk about it. And, I personally don't want to hear about your sexual explorations - I think that's to be discussed solely between a man and a woman. Teen-agers brag about such.

However, I'll take the concept of Mike's illustration and put it this way. I love my wife's cooking, and my own home cooking. But, you don't want to discuss the meatloaf recipe we eat every other Saturday for the last 25 years. Instead, you want to hear about the exploration of a new bread recipe using whole wheat, honey, and the New Glarus beer, Stone Soup. It is something new and exciting!

By the way, I want to hear from the 30 year smokers who find one of their long time favorites tasting as good as the latest Tat/Illusione/Viaje/Etc...

Peace of the Lord be with you.

(Just on a personal note, I'll take an ERdM Robusto over a Viaje 10-to-1, at least over every Viaje I've already smoked.)