Budding audiophile/vinyl questions

[SvilleKid]

hmmm Let's see.... I'm from the "vinyl" generation. Then the reel to reel gen, next the 8-track gen, then cassettes, then cd's, then........ Who the hell knows anymore!

But, being that I started with vinyl, I still have probably 1000 LPs. I used to have a decent (but not great) Pioneer turntable, but that was "borrowed" from me when Ninja moved away. I still see it occasionally, plus the hundred or so LPs that ran away with the turntable when I visit him!

The turntable was only considered "good", not great because it is a belt drive, NOT a direct drive. However, mine has after market head and needle, which made up for the belt drive. I currently have a USB turntable that I'm using to convert many of my LPs to digital, and have replaced the head and needle that came with it for a much better unit (pulled from my 1970's stock).

I don't really know what is out there these days, but in the 1970's and 80's, you needed to have a turntable that is (preferably) direct drive, with strobe light based speed adjustment to verify you are turning the exact proper RPM. the tone arm question that raged was "straight arm" verses "s-shaped" arm. I always went with an S-arm. The counterweight needed to be adjustable, with a secondary micro-adjustment weight. I had special "anti-vibration" feet that I replaced the original feet with, to minimize counter vibrations in the room from people walking, and any other actions that would transmit back to the turntable. I used standard RCA patch cords, but I used the bulky after market ones, not the tiny ones that came with the turntable. My roommate used patch cords with gold-plated connectors. I couldn't tell the difference between the cables we used.

Any LP I purchased new goes immediately into an anti-static plastic sleeve instead of the paper one in the album (used to buy them 25 at a time from radio shack). If the album liner was anything other than an unprinted sleeve, I kept it with the record. There's plenty room in the album for the plastic lined and the original sleeve. Any used albums are NOT purchased if they have significant scratching, unless it is an album I really really want (I don't have many of those). Those LP's also then go into plastic sleeves.

To extend the life of my LPs, even using the high quality needle and light-weight head, if it was an album I planned on listening to a lot, I usually copied the LP to a tape, then listened to the tapes. Once the tapes started to lose quality, I would copy another one off the LP. I used a disk-wash system that included a "zero-stat"??? (think that was what it was called) gun that reduced/eliminated the static charge in the records. Sounds like hype, but it really did

As to the other components, I never used high watt amps, I used efficient speakers that did not suck up watts just sitting there. Jeremy still uses the same 22 watt per channel (4 channel) amp that I used (purchased in 1977), and it produces sound as clear as the 250 watt amp I use with my home system.

I guess, in summary, get a reasonable quality, direct drive turntable with goods adjustment capabilities, but make sure NOT to skimp on the needle and the head. A good cleaning system helps. Most importantly, you will have to spend some serious time looking over any potential LPs you wish to purchase. Take along a good pair of headphones and listen before you buy. The surface may look to be scratch free, but the LP could have been played hundreds of times on some kid's $5 player with a big-old fat needle, and the grooves could be nothing but canyons! You can tell this immediately. Without listening, I purchased an original Floyd Cramer LP with "Last Date", specifically for that song. When I got it home and on the turntable, that song, and only that song was nothing but mush.

I imagine any amp/speaker system you buy that gives you a sound you like will suffice for the turntable, since that sound tends to be individualized anyway.

Good luck!

[smokin5]

Vinyl Junkie here, Boss!
Also reel-to-reel & cassette.
One VERY IMPORTANT FACTOR to consider in buying a turntable
is that you live in AZ, which means AVOID belt-driven models.
The heat & dryness will have you scurrying for a new belt every 4-6 months.

Make sure you get a direct drive turntable & avoid the hassle.

[LasciviousXXX]

Excellent information! Thank you Cliff, that was definitely the kind of response I was looking for. Like I said, definite newbie here so all information is helpful. You can only get so far in individual research. Sometimes you just have to glean some great info from people you trust.... and trying out equipment before you buy.


Edit - great info Eric! Thank you sir!

[MajorCaptSilly]

Neil Young on digital music:

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/musi...eil-young.html

I remember when CDs came out. Neil was not a fan. He said the "reproduced" music was turned into bits and bytes. Each bit & byte had a beginning and end which disrupted the flow of the music you get from vinyl. I'm old.

MCS

CD "quality" is a problem. The sampling rate 44.1 khz is too close to your hearing range. You may not be able to hear the high frequencies but they do affect the lower ones. This may be the "warmth" issue.

Another problem with CDs is the samples are made Right-Left-Right-... sequentially. Your ears are extremely sensitive to the timing of the sound waves hitting the different ears. This is how you locate the sound. Either the sampling rate needs to be a lot faster or it needs to be parallel somehow.

MP3s slaughter the sound information when it gets encoded.

Every time analog tracks are transferred something is lost. Once it is in digital format is will only change if it is converted to a different format. Excepting damage, of course.

[CoreyD]

The world of vinyl and mixers and audio equipment has changed.I'm to electronic old school for this question , I got my last turntable set in 94 which was Numarks ,downgraded from my techniks, and they sit in my basement with hours of sets of various techno,drum n bass, trance vinyl. From what I have heard Tecknics are now standard but stantons are making them run for there money. Some of the trance vinyl,turntable shops I can turn you onto in Phoenix to better help your questions in phoenix may not be there but these guys are and from what I hear they are quite knowledgeable. They have new and used stuff.
Revolver Records
918 N 2nd St
Phoenix, AZ 85004
(602) 795-4980
I have found if you shop at a place that sells trance/electronic vinyl they are most knowledgeable in the turntable electronic scene. sometimes a skateboard/snowboard shop has employees that know where to shop.

[AD720]

Originally Posted by replicant_argent

With the technology of today, going from digital tracks to LPs is the equivalent of carving your own granite for perfomance tires, isn't it? Taking a very close and accurate recording and translating it to a mechanical and error prone and wearable media? It doesn't make sense to me. Nostalgia aside, I don't think you gain anything. Someone was just telling me the other day some studios still record on magnetic tape and then take that to digitally master the CD? Again... I must be doing logic backwards.
It would make sense to me to take a current LP inventory and use one of the MP3 conversion turntables to make digital copies to listen to. Storing the albums as an "original and primary backup" so to speak. Easily damaged, high maintenance items, those. For the conservation of the collection that makes sense to me, anyway.

What you gain there is the natural compression of putting sound on tape, it creates a very pleasing and musical effect on the sounds.

I will say that I'll take a heavy-weight Vinyl over a low-bitrate mp3 any day of the week. Obviously FLAC or a properly mastered DVD-Audio is preferable.

[loki]

after reading this thread I've realized two things. 1: I want to get into vinyl. 2: i really don't care about music as much as i thought i did

[Beagleone]

I used to work for a major music store and sold sound & DJ equipment to many people. I was also a club and party DJ for a long time in the 80s and 90s. I still have my 2 Technics 1200s in storage along with about 1500 vinyl albums, LBs and 12" singles. Mostly old school 80s and 90s music. The Technics SL-1200s are marked for discontinued from Panasonic (parent company) late last year. They were the standard for the longest time; I've never worked a club or event that didn't have 1200s there. I would suggest getting one as soon as you can. The cost should be around $500, but used is slightly less. What can I say, they hold their value well. As for the needle, I used the Ortofon needles since they were light weight and provided a great range in sound. They were also great in design and allowed for DJs to drop the needle exactly on cue on the records. Stanton made great needles as well, but I prefer the Ortofons.

[TonySmith]

I don't have any recommendations for hardware, except Klipsch speakers. The La Scalas are pretty pricey, but a pair of Heresys would sound pretty good. I had a pair of them for many years. They are very efficent. Check some out if you can. That said, the speakers are the most important part of any system, choose carefully.

[junkinduck]

Good thread, I too realized I don't care as much as I thought I did. I want to go to tube equipment. Been looking at dynaco st 70's on eBay kinda pricely for 40 yo audio equipment. I have an old turntable out in the garage I will have to check it out tomorrow. Might want to trade it if it is any count.

[MTB996]

Analog is fantastic. I just sold my tube amp (Jolida 302b), but still enjoy my Music Hall mmf-9 table. Once you spend a little time listening you truly appreciate how much smoother and warmer analog is over CD. I have an original Mobile Fidelity DSOTM that is pure heaven in vinyl.

Just wish I had more time to spend listening in quiet.

Tons of good tables/ cartridges out there. Find some time to visit some audio shops that have decent vinyl set-ups and enjoy. Don't buy junk, but don't listen to the old nut cases that tell you unless you put a $10k TT on top of special diamond coated rubber feet it will sound like AM radio....

[SvilleKid]

Originally Posted by TonySmith

I don't have any recommendations for hardware, except Klipsch speakers. The La Scalas are pretty pricey, but a pair of Heresys would sound pretty good. I had a pair of them for many years. They are very efficent. Check some out if you can. That said, the speakers are the most important part of any system, choose carefully.

Audiovox announced in January that they intended to buy 100% of Klipsch stock. Nothing against Audiovox, but I don't associate them with high quality audio components. Maybe they will leave Klipsch to their business, and not mess with a top-notch speaker! Bose make some of the most efficient speakers around. If you can find some used 901 series that are in good condition, they would be a great investment. 601 series are good bets also. Neither are cheap, though!

[MTB996]

One other point: If your looking at equipment, don't be afraid of low wattage tube stuff. It can be finicky sometimes (tube biasing, etc.) and require certain types of speakers to really sing, but IMO it gets no better than a 300b SET tube amp through a decent set of speakers.

Your room and music taste (volume and content) will dictate the system more than anything else. If you don't have a huge room and aren't going to rock out at insane levels, smaller systems can sound very sweet at a fraction of the price. If you know what you want, look at audiogon dot com for used equipment.

For not much $, a Jolida integrated (I just sold mine used for $350 with new tubes) and Soliloquy 5.3 (used < $1k) speakers are incredible.

Enjoy the search.

[sam a]

also... i've been shopping with www.turntablelab.com for years and they are great and have tons of great toys. and their reviews are pretty trustworthy imho.

[TonySmith]

Originally Posted by SvilleKid

Audiovox announced in January that they intended to buy 100% of Klipsch stock. Nothing against Audiovox, but I don't associate them with high quality audio components. Maybe they will leave Klipsch to their business, and not mess with a top-notch speaker! Bose make some of the most efficient speakers around. If you can find some used 901 series that are in good condition, they would be a great investment. 601 series are good bets also. Neither are cheap, though!

Sorryto hear Klipsch has been sold. I also hope they leave Klipsch alone to continue making their great speakers

[BloodSpite]

Originally Posted by sam a

also... i've been shopping with www.turntablelab.com for years and they are great and have tons of great toys. and their reviews are pretty trustworthy imho.

This

I've bought replacement needles from them for quite a while

Originally Posted by BC-Axeman

CD "quality" is a problem. The sampling rate 44.1 khz is too close to your hearing range. You may not be able to hear the high frequencies but they do affect the lower ones. This may be the "warmth" issue.

Another problem with CDs is the samples are made Right-Left-Right-... sequentially. Your ears are extremely sensitive to the timing of the sound waves hitting the different ears. This is how you locate the sound. Either the sampling rate needs to be a lot faster or it needs to be parallel somehow.

MP3s slaughter the sound information when it gets encoded.

Every time analog tracks are transferred something is lost. Once it is in digital format is will only change if it is converted to a different format. Excepting damage, of course.

i agree with all this, but 99% of people cannot pick up on this. most people cannot tell the different been and 320k mp3 and a CD.

i don't consider Klipsch speakers to be high quality. they are plain and simple loudspeakers. i own a whole set. yes, i like them. but i would not say they are high sound quality. just my two cents.

Originally Posted by BC-Axeman

CD "quality" is a problem. The sampling rate 44.1 khz is too close to your hearing range. You may not be able to hear the high frequencies but they do affect the lower ones. This may be the "warmth" issue.

Another problem with CDs is the samples are made Right-Left-Right-... sequentially. Your ears are extremely sensitive to the timing of the sound waves hitting the different ears. This is how you locate the sound. Either the sampling rate needs to be a lot faster or it needs to be parallel somehow.

MP3s slaughter the sound information when it gets encoded.

Every time analog tracks are transferred something is lost. Once it is in digital format is will only change if it is converted to a different format. Excepting damage, of course.

Originally Posted by kickerb

i agree with all this, but 99% of people cannot pick up on this. most people cannot tell the different been and 320k mp3 and a CD.

99% of the people who care to try, maybe even. 99% don't even care to try to hear the difference. Once you learn to hear the difference you can't unlearn it. Then age sets in.

+1 on the speakers being the most important component. That's what you are ultimately getting the sound from. It doesn't matter how good you kept the sound quality, going through the system, if it gets mangled by the speakers being sent to your ears.