Red's Fans Check in

[icehog3]

Originally Posted by chippewastud79

If Reds fans ever think they have it bad, call a Cubs fan.

You ain't just whistlin' "Dixie", Adam.

[waffle]

Originally Posted by icehog3

You ain't just whistlin' "Dixie", Adam.

Is that the song from Deliverance....

[Starscream]

Originally Posted by waffle

Is that the song from Deliverance....

That's the song the General Lee plays when Bo blows the horn.

[icehog3]

Originally Posted by waffle

Is that the song from Deliverance....

Yes, I only hear it when I see dudes in chick sunglasses, Steve.

[waffle]

Originally Posted by Starscream

That's the song the General Lee plays when Bo blows the horn.

I know, but watching the reds play, I feel like I should be molested by some slack jaw yokels.... oh and Votto Wins another one... gone after next season... : 5 random faces :

How bout Stubbs... 2ks.... 1 after going 3-0 in the count... what a stellar showing... 177Ks 29 games to go... it'll be close but I'm confident he'll make it to 200!

[Starscream]

Squeal like a pig, boy!


We all feel like we've been @$$ raped by this organization at times, but the fact is that we could have back to back winning seasons. That's something we haven't seen in a while. No, it's not another playoff appearance or a WS win, but it's progress. We can sit here and hate on Dan for being a homer, but I wish I had his optimism at times. I'm sure he knows as well as the rest of us that we never were gonna win the WS this year, but there were plenty of things to feel optimistic about before the All-Star break, and there are a few bright hopes to look forward to next year (I said a few things).

Optimism for next year:
One more season with Votto
Take the option for BP and make him the leadoff hitter
Bruce's numbers (although streaky) have been his best yet
Cozart at SS (hopefully he's the answer, although we haven't seen him for an extended period yet)
Cueto is an ACE
Leake has good command
Willis has made a helluva comeback
Meseraco as catcher next year looks good (provided Ramon doesn't accept arbitration)
CoCo gone, Renteria gone, Janish won't be a starter, Lewis gone (I think)
Bailey hasn't been too bad
Chapman in rotation?
Brewers won't have the same team next year

Things not to look forward to next year:
Arroyo's big contract
Stubbs' Ks (hopefully we won't still be trying the leadoff expirement with him
Bailey still not living up to his potential
Who's gonna be the closer?
Bullpen is shakey

[chippewastud79]

Stubbs is just under the pace to finish in the top 5, currently already 39th for the single season strikeout record.

[chippewastud79]

Originally Posted by Starscream

Squeal like a pig, boy!


We all feel like we've been @$$ raped by this organization at times, but the fact is that we could have back to back winning seasons. That's something we haven't seen in a while. No, it's not another playoff appearance or a WS win, but it's progress. We can sit here and hate on Dan for being a homer, but I wish I had his optimism at times. I'm sure he knows as well as the rest of us that we never were gonna win the WS this year, but there were plenty of things to feel optimistic about before the All-Star break, and there are a few bright hopes to look forward to next year (I said a few things).

Optimism for next year:
One more season with Votto
Take the option for BP and make him the leadoff hitter
Bruce's numbers (although streaky) have been his best yet
Cozart at SS (hopefully he's the answer, although we haven't seen him for an extended period yet)
Cueto is an ACE
Leake has good command
Willis has made a helluva comeback
Meseraco as catcher next year looks good (provided Ramon doesn't accept arbitration)
CoCo gone, Renteria gone, Janish won't be a starter, Lewis gone (I think)
Bailey hasn't been too bad
Chapman in rotation?
Brewers won't have the same team next year

Things not to look forward to next year:
Arroyo's big contract
Stubbs' Ks (hopefully we won't still be trying the leadoff expirement with him
Bailey still not living up to his potential
Who's gonna be the closer?
Bullpen is shakey

Chapman in the rotation sounds like a terrible idea. He has already shown that he can over pitch and doesn't do well after too many pitches.

They have to stop trying to force players into the hype they have given them. Stubbs was made out to be the protypical lead-lead off and is far from it. Bailey was supposed to be an ace and is far from it. Cordero was supposed to get 50+ saves a season for a division contender. Bruce is supposed to be an MVP candidate. Janish, Gomes, Chapman..... And on and on. Everyone has the hype and few live up to them.

I can't be a homer, I just watch sports. Blind faith does nothing for me, which is bad for me living in the area with so many people who swear alleigance to teams with no knowledge of the sport or even being able to discuss what is going on. Its like Bengals 'fans' who hate Carson Palmer for retiring but love Mike Brown. Some people will like Stubbs no matter how many times he strikes out. To me, striking out more than one time per game as a lead-off hitter just means you suck.

[Starscream]

Originally Posted by chippewastud79

Chapman in the rotation sounds like a terrible idea. He has already shown that he can over pitch and doesn't do well after too many pitches.

They have to stop trying to force players into the hype they have given them. Stubbs was made out to be the protypical lead-lead off and is far from it. Bailey was supposed to be an ace and is far from it. Cordero was supposed to get 50+ saves a season for a division contender. Bruce is supposed to be an MVP candidate. Janish, Gomes, Chapman..... And on and on. Everyone has the hype and few live up to them.

I can't be a homer, I just watch sports. Blind faith does nothing for me, which is bad for me living in the area with so many people who swear alleigance to teams with no knowledge of the sport or even being able to discuss what is going on. Its like Bengals 'fans' who hate Carson Palmer for retiring but love Mike Brown. Some people will like Stubbs no matter how many times he strikes out. To me, striking out more than one time per game as a lead-off hitter just means you suck.

Being someone not from the area, I don't hear the hype as much as y'all do. I try not to believe it until it's proven anyways (like Cam Newton down here in NC).


But like it or not, the optimistic things I posted are actually not over-hyped (with the exception of Cozart). Is that gonna get us to the playoffs or to the WS? Hell no. Is it enough for us to break .500 next year? I think so.


Bruce is a future MVP - Nope. But his numbers have improved like I said

Cordero to get 50+ saves - Don't care. He's off the books next year. Thank God.

Stubbs the future leadoff - Never said it. Don't want it. He is a more than acceptable MLB hitter at the 6-8 spot though. If they would let him bunt, then I could see him as a two hole hitter, but until then, he's down to the bottom of the order

Janish - I never expected much of Janish, but I did think that he would hit at least in the .250-260 range. I'll admit I was wrong on this one.

Gomes - Didn't want him back. I knew what he was gonna do.

Rolen- You didn't bring him up, but I will...He made the All-Star team. Big whoop. Wow. I'm not impressed. I don't buy into his hype. He's played with a fugged up shoulder all year and I've been calling for him to retire since the end of last year. Yes he helped us make the playoffs last year, but if you look at his numbers, they sucked after the 2010 All-Star break. He needs to retire, and if we bring him back next year, then it's gonna hurt us in the long run.

Hernandez- You didn't bring him up either, but while I'm on the subject of calling people out...
Hernandez is a good player and a good guy, but is way overrated b/c of the walkoff HR in game 1 this year. Hannigan is the better defensive catcher by a long shot. Look at his ERA per pitcher compared to Ramon. Ramon does not need to be offered arbitration next year. That would be a joke. Hanigan can provide both backup and mentorship to Meseraco next year and they will be fine. Just like this year: Meseraco with the bat, Hanigan with the defense/better game calling skills.



I could go on if anyone likes, but I think that was enough for now. I'm optimistic about next year for sure, but I'm not a homer. I realize our downfalls, but our strengths as of this point outweigh our weaknesses. We won't know until Jocketty makes some moves or not during the offseason, but I've got hope for another wininng season next year, with or without Dusty's help.


EDIT: And if we're paying Chapman $30 million to be anything but a starter, then it's time to bail on him. Sign the kid up for winter ball, build up his endurance, and put him in the rotation. This reliever crap is a waste of both money and talent.

[elderboy02]

Reds win! Reds win!

[chippewastud79]

To me the window for this team is next year and next year only, unless something changes. Votto is gone, Phillips might be, Rollen isn't getting any younger, Bruce is at a crossroads in his young career (he will either digress or become a consistent all-the-time player), Janish has to either decide he wants to be a back up or trade his ass, Cozart has to develop into the SS they so desperately need, they have to convince BP to stay in the leadoff and need some bullpen help which is soon to be sans closer (which could be a good thing). Jocketty has to make a move to improve this team in the off-season, a true leadoff would go a long way, closer is a must, still no answer in LF and getting some consistent hitters to surround Votto would make them a much better team.

[Starscream]

Originally Posted by chippewastud79

To me the window for this team is next year and next year only, unless something changes. Votto is gone, Phillips might be, Rollen isn't getting any younger, Bruce is at a crossroads in his young career (he will either digress or become a consistent all-the-time player), Janish has to either decide he wants to be a back up or trade his ass, Cozart has to develop into the SS they so desperately need, they have to convince BP to stay in the leadoff and need some bullpen help which is soon to be sans closer (which could be a good thing). Jocketty has to make a move to improve this team in the off-season, a true leadoff would go a long way, closer is a must, still no answer in LF and getting some consistent hitters to surround Votto would make them a much better team.

I wasn't knocking you, Adam, with my last post. I think we agree on things more times than not. I just think you take some of my positive posts the wrong way some times.


To be honest, I'm a bit of a realist, so when I see us being an above .500 team, then I'm happy. Other fans aren't happy unless their team wins the championship or at least makes the playoffs. When we don't make the playoffs, it hurts a bit, but if we play above .500, then I'm good at this point.

2012 above .500 and if we play our contracts right (maybe Votto with a one year deal and re-sign BP) then it's possible we make a championship run in 2013, but I'm not getting my hopes up.

[icehog3]

Originally Posted by elderboy02

Reds win! Reds win!

Greatest comeback since the '69 Mets?

[waffle]

Originally Posted by Starscream

Being someone not from the area, I don't hear the hype as much as y'all do. I try not to believe it until it's proven anyways (like Cam Newton down here in NC).


But like it or not, the optimistic things I posted are actually not over-hyped (with the exception of Cozart). Is that gonna get us to the playoffs or to the WS? Hell no. Is it enough for us to break .500 next year? I think so.


Bruce is a future MVP - Nope. But his numbers have improved like I said

Cordero to get 50+ saves - Don't care. He's off the books next year. Thank God.

Stubbs the future leadoff - Never said it. Don't want it. He is a more than acceptable MLB hitter at the 6-8 spot though. If they would let him bunt, then I could see him as a two hole hitter, but until then, he's down to the bottom of the order

Janish - I never expected much of Janish, but I did think that he would hit at least in the .250-260 range. I'll admit I was wrong on this one.

Gomes - Didn't want him back. I knew what he was gonna do.

Rolen- You didn't bring him up, but I will...He made the All-Star team. Big whoop. Wow. I'm not impressed. I don't buy into his hype. He's played with a fugged up shoulder all year and I've been calling for him to retire since the end of last year. Yes he helped us make the playoffs last year, but if you look at his numbers, they sucked after the 2010 All-Star break. He needs to retire, and if we bring him back next year, then it's gonna hurt us in the long run.

Hernandez- You didn't bring him up either, but while I'm on the subject of calling people out...
Hernandez is a good player and a good guy, but is way overrated b/c of the walkoff HR in game 1 this year. Hannigan is the better defensive catcher by a long shot. Look at his ERA per pitcher compared to Ramon. Ramon does not need to be offered arbitration next year. That would be a joke. Hanigan can provide both backup and mentorship to Meseraco next year and they will be fine. Just like this year: Meseraco with the bat, Hanigan with the defense/better game calling skills.



I could go on if anyone likes, but I think that was enough for now. I'm optimistic about next year for sure, but I'm not a homer. I realize our downfalls, but our strengths as of this point outweigh our weaknesses. We won't know until Jocketty makes some moves or not during the offseason, but I've got hope for another wininng season next year, with or without Dusty's help.


EDIT: And if we're paying Chapman $30 million to be anything but a starter, then it's time to bail on him. Sign the kid up for winter ball, build up his endurance, and put him in the rotation. This reliever crap is a waste of both money and talent.

I don't think he was calling you a "homer", I think he was talking about all the smoke the announcers here blow up these guys asses when you listen to local broadcasts, they make it sound like the second coming of the Big Red Machine... its frustrating that the local guys can't see the forest from the trees... does this team have some serious potential? Absolutely, but its not the same as having the performance.

[chippewastud79]

Originally Posted by Starscream

I wasn't knocking you, Adam, with my last post. I think we agree on things more times than not. I just think you take some of my positive posts the wrong way some times.


To be honest, I'm a bit of a realist, so when I see us being an above .500 team, then I'm happy. Other fans aren't happy unless their team wins the championship or at least makes the playoffs. When we don't make the playoffs, it hurts a bit, but if we play above .500, then I'm good at this point.

2012 above .500 and if we play our contracts right (maybe Votto with a one year deal and re-sign BP) then it's possible we make a championship run in 2013, but I'm not getting my hopes up.

We concur on the sports discussion most of the time. Seems to be you and I are the only ones who discuss the actual issues/team/prospects/future. I am glad you are a realist, it makes discussing sports much easier.

The reality is, this is the same team as last year, in which the division was absolutely garbage and they found a way to sneak out wins against bad teams. This year they played a tougher schedule (albeit not much) and will likely end up where they should have last season. Overachieving got them to the playoffs and the Phillies exposed them to be the team they should have been all year.

.500 is a lofty goal now considering those in the area (and even some nationally) had them as the sexy favorite to win the division again, despite not making an upgrade in the off season like the Brewer did and still didn't have a better team than the Cardinals. The Cards lost their ace before the season and as of yet, they still can't pass them.

Until they can put a team on the field that is superior to the Cards and Brewers, the luck factor can only win them so many games. Heck there have been 10+ games they were lucky to win this season that they should have lost.

[chippewastud79]

Originally Posted by icehog3

Greatest comeback since the '69 Mets?

Best team since the '27 Yankees?

[waffle]

Originally Posted by chippewastud79

We concur on the sports discussion most of the time. Seems to be you and I are the only ones who discuss the actual issues/team/prospects/future. I am glad you are a realist, it makes discussing sports much easier.

The reality is, this is the same team as last year, in which the division was absolutely garbage and they found a way to sneak out wins against bad teams. This year they played a tougher schedule (albeit not much) and will likely end up where they should have last season. Overachieving got them to the playoffs and the Phillies exposed them to be the team they should have been all year.

.500 is a lofty goal now considering those in the area (and even some nationally) had them as the sexy favorite to win the division again, despite not making an upgrade in the off season like the Brewer did and still didn't have a better team than the Cardinals. The Cards lost their ace before the season and as of yet, they still can't pass them.

Until they can put a team on the field that is superior to the Cards and Brewers, the luck factor can only win them so many games. Heck there have been 10+ games they were lucky to win this season that they should have lost.

I think its frustrating that the majority of the fans in Cincinnati walk around with Rose (only pun slightly intended) colored glasses on. Is the team exactly where they should expect to be? YES! They weren't the team they were hyped up to be all pre-season, they were the team they were in the pre-season, they had some really strong spots (Votto, BP, etc) but they have these "up and comers" that don't pan out that should be the "second coming" according to listen to the propoganda spewed by the commentators and the sports talk shows in the area... when someone calls them out, the whole city gets defensive... i.e. Cowherd last year... saying that the Reds had no business in the playoffs, the city went crazy... and then they get thumped because they were in no way the better team, they just happened to get lucky and were in a TERRIBLE division (hey icehogs' Cubs, whats up?).

I just wish the city would realize we have one team performing at .500 level and another that probably won't win a game this season and stop thinking we have such strong teams.

[Starscream]

Originally Posted by chippewastud79

We concur on the sports discussion most of the time. Seems to be you and I are the only ones who discuss the actual issues/team/prospects/future. I am glad you are a realist, it makes discussing sports much easier.

The reality is, this is the same team as last year, in which the division was absolutely garbage and they found a way to sneak out wins against bad teams. This year they played a tougher schedule (albeit not much) and will likely end up where they should have last season. Overachieving got them to the playoffs and the Phillies exposed them to be the team they should have been all year.

.500 is a lofty goal now considering those in the area (and even some nationally) had them as the sexy favorite to win the division again, despite not making an upgrade in the off season like the Brewer did and still didn't have a better team than the Cardinals. The Cards lost their ace before the season and as of yet, they still can't pass them.

Until they can put a team on the field that is superior to the Cards and Brewers, the luck factor can only win them so many games. Heck there have been 10+ games they were lucky to win this season that they should have lost.

I'll agree in part. We were pretty much the exact same team for the first half of this year. Since the AS break, we've been a relatively young team. The first half can be blamed on Jocketty for not making moves vs. Cards and Brewers making moves. The moves worked out for the Brew Crew, as they've turned into the Phillies of the Central, but the moves haven't worked out for STL at all, except for Berkman. If Milwaukee kept their same team as last year, then we would have made another run at it, but unfortunately, they improved, where Walt did nothing but bring in some losers/has beens with Renteria and Lewis. I can't knock him for the extensions, bc they've all worked out somewhat (even Arroyo b/c he's provided rest for the bullpen).

But the second half has been Heisey, Frazier, Sappelt, and Alonso. These guys haven't been much, but we've won games with them and have worked back to above .500. Really, other than Cozart and Alonso, the prospects haven't shown much (with Alonso still to be determined), but we've made do with them and it has been a completely different dynamic the second half. We can actually win two games in a row at this point.

[icehog3]

Cubs are pitiful, Steve. With the exception of Starling Castro and Darwin Barney, they have little to be excited about at this point. Over the hill, over-paid "sluggers", mentally unstable pitchers and a minor league manager. If I wasn't a Tigers fan I would be watching bowling right now.

[Starscream]

Originally Posted by waffle

I think its frustrating that the majority of the fans in Cincinnati walk around with Rose (only pun slightly intended) colored glasses on. Is the team exactly where they should expect to be? YES! They weren't the team they were hyped up to be all pre-season, they were the team they were in the pre-season, they had some really strong spots (Votto, BP, etc) but they have these "up and comers" that don't pan out that should be the "second coming" according to listen to the propoganda spewed by the commentators and the sports talk shows in the area... when someone calls them out, the whole city gets defensive... i.e. Cowherd last year... saying that the Reds had no business in the playoffs, the city went crazy... and then they get thumped because they were in no way the better team, they just happened to get lucky and were in a TERRIBLE division (hey icehogs' Cubs, whats up?).

I just wish the city would realize we have one team performing at .500 level and another that probably won't win a game this season and stop thinking we have such strong teams.

The hatred is just for outsiders, b/c if you listen to the radio, Marty has talked pure trash about this team for a while now. That's why I prefer to listen to the radio over the tv broadcast. Marty calls it like it is vs. douchebags like Chris Welsch who seems to know every player on a first name basis.


At times when I'm listening to Marty, I think I'm watching/listening to Bob Uecker in Major League.