Pumping Iron with Zemekone and Icehog3

[Starscream]

Originally Posted by The Professor

stuck to machines today. why? because I felt like it. LoL!

What's wrong with sticking to the machines? I know I'm still new to this, but I like the machines.

Speaking of machines, what's the difference between the hack squat machine and doing regular squats (results wise)?

[BigFrank]

Originally Posted by andysutherland

Speaking of machines, what's the difference between the hack squat machine and doing regular squats (results wise)?

Without getting into a crazy debate.

Machines-
little or no stabilizing muscles used.
safe
easy
more controlled motion
specifically isolate
easy ( yes said it twice )
Free Weights -
Stabilizing muscles used to full extent.
not as safe
not easy
greater strength gains
more versatile
require more balance and coordination

It honestly depends on what YOU are trying to do with yourself. Personally avoiding compound movements and avoiding the use of free weights entirely is a bad idea. For the normal person, a good blend of both would be ideal. Free weight early in the workout, machines later.

[Starscream]

Originally Posted by BigFrank

Without getting into a crazy debate.

Machines-
little or no stabilizing muscles used.
safe
easy
more controlled motion
specifically isolate
easy ( yes said it twice )
Free Weights -
Stabilizing muscles used to full extent.
not as safe
not easy
greater strength gains
more versatile
require more balance and coordination

It honestly depends on what YOU are trying to do with yourself. Personally avoiding compound movements and avoiding the use of free weights entirely is a bad idea. For the normal person, a good blend of both would be ideal. Free weight early in the workout, machines later.

I do use some free weights, but since I don't have a spotter, I'm a little uneasy with free weights for bench press (unless I'm using a Smith machine) or squats. I use dumbells regularly and the EZbar.

[The Professor]

Originally Posted by BigFrank

Without getting into a crazy debate.

Machines-
little or no stabilizing muscles used.
safe
easy
more controlled motion
specifically isolate
easy ( yes said it twice )
Free Weights -
Stabilizing muscles used to full extent.
not as safe
not easy
greater strength gains
more versatile
require more balance and coordination

It honestly depends on what YOU are trying to do with yourself. Personally avoiding compound movements and avoiding the use of free weights entirely is a bad idea. For the normal person, a good blend of both would be ideal. Free weight early in the workout, machines later.

What Frank said. Hence the shame.

[Starscream]

Thanks for the responses Frank and Dokk.

[The Professor]

Originally Posted by andysutherland

I do use some free weights, but since I don't have a spotter, I'm a little uneasy with free weights for bench press (unless I'm using a Smith machine) or squats. I use dumbells regularly and the EZbar.

Dude -- that's what the safety arms are for on the squat racks and power racks. If you can't get up, the weight drops on the safety and not your toes. I hear you on bench; but (a) you're more likely to hurt your pride than your body and (b) that's what dumbbells are for. I'm a HUGE believer in DBs now for benching without a partner.

[Mugen910]

Nothing crazy yesterday..it was my 4th time at the gym this week so I decided to do a bit of everything except legs...

[Starscream]

Originally Posted by The Professor

I'm a HUGE believer in DBs now for benching without a partner.

Will definitely keep that in mind.

[Chris.]

Originally Posted by andysutherland

What's wrong with sticking to the machines? I know I'm still new to this, but I like the machines.

Speaking of machines, what's the difference between the hack squat machine and doing regular squats (results wise)?

I have been curious about this as well!

[The Professor]

Originally Posted by Chris.

I have been curious about this as well!

Frank's answer is spot on; but to be a little more specific about the squat...

There is, in my humble judgment based on the evidence I've seen, no replacement for a real/full squat. It's a truly compound exercise that cannot be mimicked using a machine because machines inevitably remove stabilizers and limit range of motion in one way or another. Machine hack squats (i.e., on the sled) target the quads more than anything. You can get around that, to a certain extent, by placing your feet in a modified position (forward more); but you're never gonna hit your hams or posterior chain as well.

Now, if you're not interested in the compound movement or really want to be targeting your quads, go for the hack squat (though I'd be a little more inclined to say you should go for some leg presses).

[Starscream]

Originally Posted by The Professor

Now, if you're not interested in the compound movement or really want to be targeting your quads, go for the hack squat (though I'd be a little more inclined to say you should go for some leg presses).

I do both the hack squat and the leg press.

[The Professor]

Originally Posted by andysutherland

I do both the hack squat and the leg press.

And, while I did leg presses a couple of weeks in a row recently, I don't do them much because looking at weights usually makes my quads grow ... and I really don't want bigger quads.

[Starchild]

Originally Posted by BigFrank

It's time to ditch crossfit brother. Performing compound movements for high reps while in a state of high pre-exhaustion is a recipe for disaster. DO some online research about crossfit. It gets a lot of crap reviews. Do some research on it. Call me a flamethrower or what have you but I dont think it is NOT the best workout available out there.
A friend of mine compared this to say doing ab and lower back exercises before squatting. Think about what that would be like getting under a squat bar and performing full range squats, or deadlifts after already burning out the tank. And to boot, your going heavy and pushing the limits. Doesn't make much sense does it?
I dunno bout this. I always bounce at the bottom on raw squats. Get some knee sleeves or wraps for heavier sets. Going light because you are afraid of getting hurt is ****ing stupid. I know guys who have two rebuilt knees some rebuilt more than once squatting 800+ pounds. Trick is training smart.
How full is your range? you bottoming out or hitting parallel?

I'm sure that the are better workouts out there, and I appreciate the opinion. The thing I like about CF is that is combines carido and weight lifting. It changes things up and keeps me interested. The workout I do is better than the one I don't. We rarely go super heavy, and when we do, we don't mix in other exercises. When I first hurt it, I was doing high back squats with 135 and stressing form starting at 5 reps and working down.

As far as my range, I'm the yoga instructor remember. My hamsrings are pressed against my calves, feet flat on the floor, weight on my heels. Not much further I could go, so I think the bounce was especially harmful.

Id go high boxes at first. Go wide really wide if ya wanna toast the hams. The more I think about it I would set the box up different heights and work on form for awhile.

Long story short, I have an issue with squatting where my knee would buckle in on heavy sets. After tweaking my form for awhile I got it to stop happening. Possibly preventing a blown out knee.

Problem here is people confuse slow ( rate of decent ) with control. People think well I will just go to parallel slow. This isnt always the best answer. Controlling the weight down is best. Naturally there will be bounce at the bottom. Only time to go slow hitting parallel would be squatting with briefs and a suit on. Going to slow will more often cause a guy to bomb out at the bottom. I have done this in the past as Im sure most guys have, under heavier weights taking 30 seconds to get to parallel is mind numbing and when you hit the bottom your out of gas. Also, bringing the weight down your going to be using a lot of glute, ham and lower back. Going up is mainly quads. But that distance from say parallel to maybe 1/4 up is a lot of ham, glute and lower back. So, common sense would say you burn your self out going down too slow, you get no pop out of the bottom. Long story short, control. Form is key too.

Good tips I'm going to have to get more familiar with box squats.

[BigFrank]

Might be going a little too deep on the squats. I know personally going too deep hurts my knees. Might be different for most but it kills me. So I hit parallel and no lower.

[The Professor]

Originally Posted by BigFrank

Might be going a little too deep on the squats. I know personally going too deep hurts my knees. Might be different for most but it kills me. So I hit parallel and no lower.

Ass back, parallel, push the floor apart.

I have a wide stance.

[The Professor]

Chest and tris day. Something's wrong with my right tris. I was diagnosed with some ulnar neuropathy years ago; but I've kept that in check through better ergonomics. Seems I've slipped back into my bad ways (e.g., working from my laptop sitting on the couch and resting my weight on my elbow), which is exacerbated by my slip last Friday not warming up my tris enough.

Hit a new PR on DB flat bench of 85 x 1 (failed trying for a 2nd). I probably could have done more had my right elbow not felt like it was going to fall off when I came down with the weight. Same thing on incline hammer strengths. Worked up to 84/side x 4, which was a new PR. Could have gone heavier or more reps if my arm wasn't acting up. Skipped declines and dips. Went and did some 135 rack lock-outs and got confirmation (a) that our bars are thicker than regulation, which effin sucks (and is not what I was told when I signed up), and (b) that our portable benches are too tall (which consistently causes me to cramp up). I'm just complaining. Tried to finish up with some tri work; but just couldn't.

I'l head back this afternoon with the DrMS and do some hypertrophic lifting....

[PeteSB75]

Good lifts yesterday. Dead, Press and Chin-ups. Medium day, so no PRs, but I was definitely tired by the time I was done. Deads really take it out of me.

[BigFrank]

Originally Posted by The Professor

Ass back, parallel, push the floor apart.
I have a wide stance.

Dont forget chest up head back.!

Originally Posted by The Professor

Chest and tris day. Something's wrong with my right tris. I was diagnosed with some ulnar neuropathy years ago; but I've kept that in check through better ergonomics. Seems I've slipped back into my bad ways (e.g., working from my laptop sitting on the couch and resting my weight on my elbow), which is exacerbated by my slip last Friday not warming up my tris enough.

Hit a new PR on DB flat bench of 85 x 1 (failed trying for a 2nd). I probably could have done more had my right elbow not felt like it was going to fall off when I came down with the weight. Same thing on incline hammer strengths. Worked up to 84/side x 4, which was a new PR. Could have gone heavier or more reps if my arm wasn't acting up. Skipped declines and dips. Went and did some 135 rack lock-outs and got confirmation (a) that our bars are thicker than regulation, which effin sucks (and is not what I was told when I signed up), and (b) that our portable benches are too tall (which consistently causes me to cramp up). I'm just complaining. Tried to finish up with some tri work; but just couldn't.
I'l head back this afternoon with the DrMS and do some hypertrophic lifting....

Sucks about your tricep Dokk. Dunno bout the pc thing. Not my ballgame but I get bad hand cramps from working all day also my back gets tight from standing on ladders etc. all day. So I know where you are coming from on that.

Originally Posted by PeteSB75

Good lifts yesterday. Dead, Press and Chin-ups. Medium day, so no PRs, but I was definitely tired by the time I was done. Deads really take it out of me.

What's your training split now Pete?

Been sitting around the house all morning, took a few naps. Tomorrow is first day back to work. Might head out to the gym later.

[The Professor]

Originally Posted by BigFrank

Dont forget chest up head back.!

Of course! Though ... I don't kick my head back as much as some -- throws off my balance too much.

Originally Posted by BigFrank

Sucks about your tricep Dokk. Dunno bout the pc thing. Not my ballgame but I get bad hand cramps from working all day also my back gets tight from standing on ladders etc. all day. So I know where you are coming from on that.

Thanks. It is what it is and I'll work around it all.

Heading to Macy's in a little bit to try on some fat jeans....

[PeteSB75]

Originally Posted by BigFrank

What's your training split now Pete?

Going to continue with lifting 3 days/week for a while, heavy, light, med. After a few months, I will switch up to heavy, light, heavy. Been rough getting back into after a week and a half off. Need to get back to spin class a couple days a week. Doing a 4 day split of exercises.

Day1
Back Squat
Bent-Over Row
Dips

Day 2
Dead
Press
Chin-ups

Day 3
Bench
DB Row
Front Squat

Day 4
Power Clean
Incline Press
Pull-Ups

Originally Posted by BigFrank

Been sitting around the house all morning, took a few naps. Tomorrow is first day back to work. Might head out to the gym later.

Good luck tomorrow.