Bonds looks to be off the Hook, Fed Case on Deathbed

[Ahbroody]

Sorry but a guy who cheated with steroids cannot be placed in the top 10 against athletes who competed fairly and played the game with honesty and integrity. If I was one of the players listed I would consider it a slap in the face as to how hard I worked and played the game.

As someone who grewup going to giants games and have gone my whole life, I never want to see him in the hall. Look at his stats the head of balco became his trainer in 2000, possibly 99. Look at the stats jump. How can anyone count the last 8 possibly 9 years of his career when looking at his stats? Take out all the tainted years and replace them with declining stats which is what he would have had. He also likely would have played a few less years given injury issues.

In short a known cheated should never be compared to a group of players who played the game with honor and integrity.

[kelmac07]

Originally Posted by Ahbroody

Sorry but a guy who cheated with steroids cannot be placed in the top 10 against athletes who competed fairly and played the game with honesty and integrity. If I was one of the players listed I would consider it a slap in the face as to how hard I worked and played the game.

As someone who grewup going to giants games and have gone my whole life, I never want to see him in the hall. Look at his stats the head of balco became his trainer in 2000, possibly 99. Look at the stats jump. How can anyone count the last 8 possibly 9 years of his career when looking at his stats? Take out all the tainted years and replace them with declining stats which is what he would have had. He also likely would have played a few less years given injury issues.

In short a known cheated should never be compared to a group of players who played the game with honor and integrity.

Mike...as far as we know they competed "fairly"...they didn't start testing in LMB for illegal drugs until the early 90s. Babe Ruth stayed drunk, as did Mantle and look at their numbers. Hmmm??? Defintely not saying I approve of Bonds cheating/juicing (althought he has never failed a drug test...evidence is in his pics from when he came up with Pittsburgh and was a scrawny kid and when he finished his hat size was 10 1/2...he has not been proven of cheating). He still had to swing the bat and play the game. I truly believe that Bonds receives such negative press from the way he was a prick towards the media. McGwire has admitted cheating and you don't hear a thing about it now. A-Rod still catches flack, but not as much. Andy Petite, you hear nothing!!! Media driven madness my brother!!!

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[Ahbroody]

Originally Posted by kelmac07

Mike...as far as we know they competed "fairly"...they didn't start testing in LMB for illegal drugs until the early 90s. Babe Ruth stayed drunk, as did Mantle and look at their numbers. Hmmm??? Defintely not saying I approve of Bonds cheating/juicing (althought he has never failed a drug test...evidence is in his pics from when he came up with Pittsburgh and was a scrawny kid and when he finished his hat size was 10 1/2...he has not been proven of cheating). He still had to swing the bat and play the game. I truly believe that Bonds receives such negative press from the way he was a prick towards the media. McGwire has admitted cheating and you don't hear a thing about it now. A-Rod still catches flack, but not as much. Andy Petite, you hear nothing!!! Media driven madness my brother!!!

First off I do find humor that a met fan called into question 3 yankees. 2 of the greatest players and yankees to ever play. I am not. Yankee fan, I am a giant fan.

Second as a cop and someone who played HS baseball at a very competitive school I will say alcohol would hinder reaction time which is essential. Steroids on the other hand could and would improve fast twitch muscles and heal muscle injuries which powerhitters are prone to. allowing a hitter with great skill but low strength to gain the strength needed and extend a carrer that would have ended earlier.

Finally, given the extremely limited accessibility of performance enhancing roids till the late 60s outside Eastern Europe, the fact that most every player on the list had traditional declining stats after peaking a few years in, and none of their head and bone structure changed which is typical of growth hormone users *which would not be detected then*, I will say Bonds is a fraud. While he clearly had talent roids gave him the ability to hit more homeruns and extend his career.

Not of this really matters as he got away with it.

[The Poet]

Originally Posted by Ahbroody

First off I do find humor that a met fan called into question 3 yankees. 2 of the greatest players and yankees to ever play. I am not. Yankee fan, I am a giant fan.

I am a Yankee fan, and I have no problem with Mac bashing any Yankee, past or present, he chooses. Hell, I bash Mets all the time, and he has no problem with that.

But as for the whole steroid issue, I would like to point out that both Andy and A-Rod at least stood up like men, admitted their mistakes, and ask for forgiveness. When you compare this to that @$$hole Bonds, who demands an apology instead, you may better understand why they catch a lot less flak than he does.

[kelmac07]

Originally Posted by The Poet

I am a Yankee fan, and I have no problem with Mac bashing any Yankee, past or present, he chooses. Hell, I bash Mets all the time, and he has no problem with that.

But as for the whole steroid issue, I would like to point out that both Andy and A-Rod at least stood up like men, admitted their mistakes, and ask for forgiveness. When you compare this to that @$$hole Bonds, who demands an apology instead, you may better understand why they catch a lot less flak than he does.

I do agree that Pettitte handled it like a man...the jury is still out on A-Rod. But they both had positive tests come back, where as Bonds has not yet been tested positive. And we all know that Bonds was no doll when it came to the media.

[Starscream]

Originally Posted by The Poet

But as for the whole steroid issue, I would like to point out that both Andy and A-Rod at least stood up like men, admitted their mistakes, and ask for forgiveness.

A-Rod stood up like a man? He only came out b/c he got busted on it. Yes, he did it better than McGwire did, but still that's not being a man. Come clean before you get caught. I'm not a Yankee fan, and no disrespect to the team, but A-Rod is a complete douchebag too. There are plenty of good Yankee players, such as Jeter, Posada, Texiera, and Cano, so don't think I'm just bashing A-Rod b/c he's a Yank. He was a douchebag down in Texas too.

[The Poet]

Originally Posted by andysutherland

A-Rod stood up like a man? He only came out b/c he got busted on it. Yes, he did it better than McGwire did, but still that's not being a man. Come clean before you get caught. I'm not a Yankee fan, and no disrespect to the team, but A-Rod is a complete douchebag too. There are plenty of good Yankee players, such as Jeter, Posada, Texiera, and Cano, so don't think I'm just bashing A-Rod b/c he's a Yank. He was a douchebag down in Texas too.

I won't argue with you that A-Rod has often been a douchebag in the past, and can be one in the present, and will likely be one in the future. But I think it is unjust for you to condemn him for being one because he did not volunteer the information that he used steroids instead of waiting until "he got busted on it". I could be wrong . . . it has happened before . . . but I can't recall one single player (active, anyway) who came out of that particular closet on his own accord. And I'm NOT just talking baseball here either.

[Starscream]

Originally Posted by The Poet

I won't argue with you that A-Rod has often been a douchebag in the past, and can be one in the present, and will likely be one in the future. But I think it is unjust for you to condemn him for being one because he did not volunteer the information that he used steroids instead of waiting until "he got busted on it". I could be wrong . . . it has happened before . . . but I can't recall one single player (active, anyway) who came out of that particular closet on his own accord. And I'm NOT just talking baseball here either.

Wasn't active, but Canseco did it.


You're right, I may be biased against him, but I still think he's a douche.

[Ahbroody]

Originally Posted by The Poet

I am a Yankee fan, and I have no problem with Mac bashing any Yankee, past or present, he chooses. Hell, I bash Mets all the time, and he has no problem with that.
.

I said I found humor in it. I did not say I had an problem with it. I am not a fan of the yankees. So with that said I am confused as to why you quoted me other than to use my comment as a springboard for your statement. I am not a fan of either NY team and was making a observation that in an discussion about Bonds a Met fan tied in some baseball legends who were yankees and called their carrer into question. It was funny it was players from the yankees and not any other team. I think if he had issue with my comment he could or should have made it known. Again to me its FUNNY! I have no issue with it. It's just funny.

[Starscream]

Originally Posted by Ahbroody

I said I found humor in it. I did not say I had an problem with it. I am not a fan of the yankees. So with that said I am confused as to why you quoted me other than to use my comment as a springboard for your statement. I am not a fan of either NY team and was making a observation that in an discussion about Bonds a Met fan tied in some baseball legends who were yankees and called their carrer into question. It was funny it was players from the yankees and not any other team. I think if he had issue with my comment he could or should have made it known. Again to me its FUNNY! I have no issue with it. It's just funny.

It's not funny one bit! That is totally unacceptable! WTF were you thinking???





















































J/K. I thought it was a bit humorous myself.

[Starscream]

Originally Posted by Ahbroody

Take out all the tainted years and replace them with declining stats which is what he would have had. He also likely would have played a few less years given injury issues.

I could be wrong here, but I thought that it has been shown that those who take steroids are more prone to injury than those who don't.

I agree with the rest of your post about his stats would have probably gone into a decline.

[Ahbroody]

Originally Posted by andysutherland

I could be wrong here, but I thought that it has been shown that those who take steroids are more prone to injury than those who don't.

I agree with the rest of your post about his stats would have probably gone into a decline.

In my last post I stated Bonds likely used HGH due to his increase in bone structure which is a documented side effect of its use. Steroids can cause Injury to tendons and ligaments because the muscles increase to a size which your natural tendons and ligaments have issues supporting. Why some would say you see the increase in tendon injuries in the pros. What is often done and I believe was done with Bonds is that he took a combination of both Steroids to increase muscle mass and aid in muscle repair, then HGH which would help prevent tendon and ligament damage and repair damage that occurred..

This would also work with the concept of the clear(HGH undetecable) and the Cream (steroid mix).

I would like to say I am not a roid user, but when I used to lift a lot before I had a few buddies who used gear. They loved to talk about this stuff when we were lifting.

[Starscream]

Originally Posted by Ahbroody

In my last post I stated Bonds likely used HGH due to his increase in bone structure which is a documented side effect of its use. Steroids can cause Injury to tendons and ligaments because the muscles increase to a size which your natural tendons and ligaments have issues supporting. Why some would say you see the increase in tendon injuries in the pros. What is often done and I believe was done with Bonds is that he took a combination of both Steroids to increase muscle mass and aid in muscle repair, then HGH which would help prevent tendon and ligament damage and repair damage that occurred..

This would also work with the concept of the clear(HGH undetecable) and the Cream (steroid mix).

I would like to say I am not a roid user, but when I used to lift a lot before I had a few buddies who used gear. They loved to talk about this stuff when we were lifting.

Sounds feasible to me.

[icehog3]

Originally Posted by andysutherland

I could be wrong here, but I thought that it has been shown that those who take steroids are more prone to injury than those who don't.

Like Mike stated above, 'roids can actually help speed healing of some injuries. The chemistry Mike defined actually makes the case for Bonds to be less hampered by injuries than he would have been without the "enhancers".

[Starscream]

Originally Posted by icehog3

Like Mike stated above, 'roids can actually help speed healing of some injuries. The chemistry Mike defined actually makes the case for Bonds to be less hampered by injuries than he would have been without the "enhancers".

I know they can heal, but I also heard they hurt muscles and tendons. His explanation above makes sense to me, though.


Volquez was busted earlier this year and put on a 50 game suspension while he was rehabbing. He was using to heal up quicker (we assume anyways, not his official story).