McGwire Admits to Steroids......

[MedicCook]

The biggest problem is MLB knew about it and condoned it for years because it was making everyone money from it. I feel bad for all the players who played the game straight.

[Whynot]

Originally Posted by Blueface

Don't disagree at all.
I think they are all scum for having been cheaters.
One thing is if no one knew the effects of it or if it wasn't banned.
They did it knowing fully well.

It is truly a shame.
Hank and Marris have been screwed by cheaters and no one is doing anything at this time to fix it so at least one of them does not continue to roll in his grave.

It was not banned by baseball at the time. Illegal yes, but not banned by the rules of the game. Many here may want to be careful about condeming someone for ingesting an illegal substance or item. I must say it is good to talk baseball with those that obviously care for the game, even if it is in disagreement. It is getting harder to find folks that still enjoy it.

[MedicCook]

Originally Posted by Whynot

It was not banned by baseball at the time. Illegal yes, but not banned by the rules of the game. Many here may want to be careful about condeming someone for ingesting an illegal substance or item. I must say it is good to talk baseball with those that obviously care for the game, even if it is in disagreement. It is getting harder to find folks that still enjoy it.

Being illegal makes it cheating. The fact that there was no punishment for using it during the time does not matter. If you used illegal steroids you broke the law. You took an item that gave you a competitive edge over your peers and to do that you committed a crime. That is cheating.

[Starscream]

Originally Posted by Whynot

It was not banned by baseball at the time. Illegal yes, but not banned by the rules of the game. Many here may want to be careful about condeming someone for ingesting an illegal substance or item. I must say it is good to talk baseball with those that obviously care for the game, even if it is in disagreement. It is getting harder to find folks that still enjoy it.

I agree to an extent.

Originally Posted by MedicCook

You took an item that gave you a competitive edge over your peers and to do that you committed a crime. That is cheating.

How does steroids truly give someone a competitive edge over others? Everyone has a choice whether to take them or not. Some chose to; others don't. An unsafe choice that many will choose not to make. Everyone has to decide. Some choose to work hard in the offseason and train all year long; others don't. It's a personal choice that everyone makes, whether legal, moral, or not. So those who train hard in the offseason have an advantage over those who don't. I don't condone the use of steroids, just posting a thought.

[Whynot]

Where do cortisone and HGH fall in? Not really performance enhancers so are they all right? They do provide an "unnatural" advantage over pain and injury.

[Blueface]

Originally Posted by andysutherland

I agree to an extent.


How does steroids truly give someone a competitive edge over others?

Serious?
Just go back and look at Bonds, Canseco, McGwire and Sosa. All were sticks when they joined MLB.
Then look at the explosion their bodies took post what was evident to be steroid use. You can clearly see at what point they started.
While that doesn't help them see the ball any better, when they do connect, I assure you those built up bodies will drive it quite a bit further than when they were skinny. And what is it they all did well? Hit home runs. Hmmm........
That is only the surface of what steroid use did for them. Lots more it can do and hence the reason for it making them blatant cheaters.

[Blueface]

Originally Posted by Whynot

Where do cortisone and HGH fall in? Not really performance enhancers so are they all right? They do provide an "unnatural" advantage over pain and injury.

Not even in the same league.
One relieves pain. The other enhances strength/endurance/speed.
Even if they were remotely for one second in the same league, one is approved, the other is not.
Perhaps someday they will determine cortisone use is now illegal. At that point, so it will be. Today, it is not.

[chippewastud79]

Looks like Mark and others were holding out for some immunity on the issue before they testified before congress a few years ago that led to the "I don't want to talk about the past" statements. A lot of it seems to be protection for his family and other players who were involved. McGwire apparently told Congress behind closed doors that he did use steroids but he didn't want to 'throw anyone under the bus' in front of Congress, and wanted to stay away from prosecution.

[KidRock]

Originally Posted by Blueface

Don't disagree at all.
I think they are all scum for having been cheaters.
One thing is if no one knew the effects of it or if it wasn't banned.
They did it knowing fully well.

It is truly a shame.
Hank and Marris have been screwed by cheaters and no one is doing anything at this time to fix it so at least one of them does not continue to roll in his grave.

agreed 100 percent

[mosesbotbol]

Originally Posted by AD720

Does anyone believe for a second that Bonds wasn't juicing?

He admitted to taking a drug that he found out later was Steroids. Remember "the clear" and "the cream"? They were both Andro-gels.

I am curious as to what McGwire took. I have a feeling it was Nandrolone if he was using it to recover from injuries.

Funny about McGwire's quote that he did not take much so he wouldn't get huge and look like Arnold or a bodybuilder... Dude, did you ever look in the mirror in the late 90's? You were huge! I remember seeing him at a restaurant when they were in town against the Sox. I had no idea who he was, but I told my friend, "Look at that knuckle dragger... That guy is big!"

[Starscream]

Originally Posted by andysutherland

I agree to an extent.


How does steroids truly give someone a competitive edge over others? Everyone has a choice whether to take them or not. Some chose to; others don't. An unsafe choice that many will choose not to make. Everyone has to decide. Some choose to work hard in the offseason and train all year long; others don't. It's a personal choice that everyone makes, whether legal, moral, or not. So those who train hard in the offseason have an advantage over those who don't. I don't condone the use of steroids, just posting a thought.

Originally Posted by Blueface

Serious?
Just go back and look at Bonds, Canseco, McGwire and Sosa. All were sticks when they joined MLB.
Then look at the explosion their bodies took post what was evident to be steroid use. You can clearly see at what point they started.
While that doesn't help them see the ball any better, when they do connect, I assure you those built up bodies will drive it quite a bit further than when they were skinny. And what is it they all did well? Hit home runs. Hmmm........
That is only the surface of what steroid use did for them. Lots more it can do and hence the reason for it making them blatant cheaters.

I know what steroids do, Carlos. I was pointing out that I don't see it as an advantage if everyone has the choice to use them or not(whether legal or not). Others chose not to use steroids. Choices give advantages.

[NCRadioMan]

If roids didn't offer an advantage, athletes wouldn't use them. Some athletes just have more character than others.

[Starscream]

Originally Posted by NCRadioMan

If roids didn't offer an advantage, athletes wouldn't use them.

Working out also offers an advantage.

[NCRadioMan]

Originally Posted by andysutherland

Working out also offers an advantage.

Yes, but that is by natural means. Roids are by artificial means.

[Blueface]

This is your brain.............



This is your brain on drugs.................

[Starscream]

Originally Posted by NCRadioMan

Yes, but that is by natural means. Roids are by artificial means.

But still an advantage.
Nowadays, I would completely agree, but remember steroids haven't been illegal but for a few decades. I'm not condoning the use of steroids in baseball, I just fail to see the huge outrage by everyone at Bonds, Sammy, and McGwire. I think the biggest outrage of the whole steroid era is that the big names that have come out are not Yankees. Like someone else said in this thread earlier, where's all the disgust and rage against A-Rod?

[Blueface]

Originally Posted by andysutherland

I just fail to see the huge outrage by everyone at Bonds, Sammy, and McGwire. I think the biggest outrage of the whole steroid era is that the big names that have come out are not Yankees. Like someone else said in this thread earlier, where's all the disgust and rage against A-Rod?

Dang Yankees haters. Always boils down to that.

You don't have a Yankees player breaking a record such as that of Marris or Aaron. I think that is clearly what has brought light to the three names you mention. I bet if a Yankee was in their place, breaking said records, on steroids, the same outrage would hold true.

I think that as a diehard Yankees fan since 1967, I have exhibited that outrage in this thread.

[Starscream]

Originally Posted by Blueface

Dang Yankees haters. Always boils down to that.

You don't have a Yankees player breaking a record such as that of Marris or Aaron. I think that is clearly what has brought light to the three names you mention. I bet if a Yankee was in their place, breaking said records, on steroids, the same outrage would hold true.

I think that as a diehard Yankees fan since 1967, I have exhibited that outrage in this thread.

It does always boil down to that!

And just for the sake of argument...
Pete Rose set records without using steroids. Therefore he needs to be in the HOF.

[Blueface]

Originally Posted by andysutherland

And just for the sake of argument...
Pete Rose set records without using steroids. Therefore he needs to be in the HOF.

I would agree with that.
What he did was stupid but in the grand scheme of things, certainly not something that should stop Pete, the player, from being in the hall of fame.
Charlie Hustle.

He owned a restaurant here in Boca when we first moved down about 14 years ago and we saw him there any night of the week you went. He ran his radio show from a booth he had set up dead center in the restaurant. Did quite well and was always packed. Have never figured out why they closed it down.
if you bought a Sundae Ice cream, it came in a baseball cap. If you asked for the reds, Pete would sign it for you. Got a few of those plastic cups/caps signed.

[yourchoice]

So much to say.....

If and when A-Rod is approaching and breaking Bond's career HR record, there will be a lot of disgust toward A-Rod. The reason there is so much disgust towards McGuire & Sosa is baseball marketed and people bought into the home run chase that year "bringing us back to baseball". It worked, we're back and a lot of people now feel they were duped. Rightfully so.

As for the question

Originally Posted by andysutherland

How does steroids truly give someone a competitive edge over others? Everyone has a choice whether to take them or not.

You're kidding, right? Of course steroids gives the user a competitive advantage over the non-user. Not everyone "has a choice" because not everyone is morally wired the same. To suggest that the non-user had a choice to use them is silly to me. Morally, they had no choice. (I hope that makes sense! )

As for McGuire's admission, it was CRAP. He's trying to sell a BS story that the roids didn't help him become a better hitter, it just helped him heal faster. He can't possibly believe that. He went from 1 HR every 14 AB to 1 HR every 7 AB, not because of steroids, but because of a shortened swing and better discipline. Who does he think he is fooling? The outcry, IMHO, wouldn't be as severe had he not tried to sell that BS