McGwire Admits to Steroids......

[MedicCook]

Originally Posted by Blueface

Bingo!

It is the same with most of these guys also A-Rod & Pettitte included.

[Blueface]

Originally Posted by MedicCook

It is the same with most of these guys also A-Rod & Pettitte included.

Don't disagree at all.
I think they are all scum for having been cheaters.
One thing is if no one knew the effects of it or if it wasn't banned.
They did it knowing fully well.

It is truly a shame.
Hank and Marris have been screwed by cheaters and no one is doing anything at this time to fix it so at least one of them does not continue to roll in his grave.

[Whynot]

Originally Posted by Blueface

Don't disagree at all.
I think they are all scum for having been cheaters.
One thing is if no one knew the effects of it or if it wasn't banned.
They did it knowing fully well.

It is truly a shame.
Hank and Marris have been screwed by cheaters and no one is doing anything at this time to fix it so at least one of them does not continue to roll in his grave.

It was not banned by baseball at the time. Illegal yes, but not banned by the rules of the game. Many here may want to be careful about condeming someone for ingesting an illegal substance or item. I must say it is good to talk baseball with those that obviously care for the game, even if it is in disagreement. It is getting harder to find folks that still enjoy it.

[MedicCook]

Originally Posted by Whynot

It was not banned by baseball at the time. Illegal yes, but not banned by the rules of the game. Many here may want to be careful about condeming someone for ingesting an illegal substance or item. I must say it is good to talk baseball with those that obviously care for the game, even if it is in disagreement. It is getting harder to find folks that still enjoy it.

Being illegal makes it cheating. The fact that there was no punishment for using it during the time does not matter. If you used illegal steroids you broke the law. You took an item that gave you a competitive edge over your peers and to do that you committed a crime. That is cheating.

[Starscream]

Originally Posted by Whynot

It was not banned by baseball at the time. Illegal yes, but not banned by the rules of the game. Many here may want to be careful about condeming someone for ingesting an illegal substance or item. I must say it is good to talk baseball with those that obviously care for the game, even if it is in disagreement. It is getting harder to find folks that still enjoy it.

I agree to an extent.

Originally Posted by MedicCook

You took an item that gave you a competitive edge over your peers and to do that you committed a crime. That is cheating.

How does steroids truly give someone a competitive edge over others? Everyone has a choice whether to take them or not. Some chose to; others don't. An unsafe choice that many will choose not to make. Everyone has to decide. Some choose to work hard in the offseason and train all year long; others don't. It's a personal choice that everyone makes, whether legal, moral, or not. So those who train hard in the offseason have an advantage over those who don't. I don't condone the use of steroids, just posting a thought.

[Whynot]

Where do cortisone and HGH fall in? Not really performance enhancers so are they all right? They do provide an "unnatural" advantage over pain and injury.

[Blueface]

Originally Posted by Whynot

Where do cortisone and HGH fall in? Not really performance enhancers so are they all right? They do provide an "unnatural" advantage over pain and injury.

Not even in the same league.
One relieves pain. The other enhances strength/endurance/speed.
Even if they were remotely for one second in the same league, one is approved, the other is not.
Perhaps someday they will determine cortisone use is now illegal. At that point, so it will be. Today, it is not.

[Blueface]

Originally Posted by andysutherland

I agree to an extent.


How does steroids truly give someone a competitive edge over others?

Serious?
Just go back and look at Bonds, Canseco, McGwire and Sosa. All were sticks when they joined MLB.
Then look at the explosion their bodies took post what was evident to be steroid use. You can clearly see at what point they started.
While that doesn't help them see the ball any better, when they do connect, I assure you those built up bodies will drive it quite a bit further than when they were skinny. And what is it they all did well? Hit home runs. Hmmm........
That is only the surface of what steroid use did for them. Lots more it can do and hence the reason for it making them blatant cheaters.

[yourchoice]

So much to say.....

If and when A-Rod is approaching and breaking Bond's career HR record, there will be a lot of disgust toward A-Rod. The reason there is so much disgust towards McGuire & Sosa is baseball marketed and people bought into the home run chase that year "bringing us back to baseball". It worked, we're back and a lot of people now feel they were duped. Rightfully so.

As for the question

Originally Posted by andysutherland

How does steroids truly give someone a competitive edge over others? Everyone has a choice whether to take them or not.

You're kidding, right? Of course steroids gives the user a competitive advantage over the non-user. Not everyone "has a choice" because not everyone is morally wired the same. To suggest that the non-user had a choice to use them is silly to me. Morally, they had no choice. (I hope that makes sense! )

As for McGuire's admission, it was CRAP. He's trying to sell a BS story that the roids didn't help him become a better hitter, it just helped him heal faster. He can't possibly believe that. He went from 1 HR every 14 AB to 1 HR every 7 AB, not because of steroids, but because of a shortened swing and better discipline. Who does he think he is fooling? The outcry, IMHO, wouldn't be as severe had he not tried to sell that BS

[Starscream]

Originally Posted by yourchoice

You're kidding, right? Of course steroids gives the user a competitive advantage over the non-user. Not everyone "has a choice" because not everyone is morally wired the same. To suggest that the non-user had a choice to use them is silly to me. Morally, they had no choice. (I hope that makes sense! )

I don't buy that. Some people think that baseball is immoral (Lou Gherig's mother). They can't even play the sport b/c of their morals. So those of us who think that baseball and sports in general are not immoral have an unfair advantage over those who will not participate based on their morals b/c we chose to play over those who chose not to play.

And even the most morally sound people make bad decisions.

[KidRock]

Originally Posted by Blueface

Don't disagree at all.
I think they are all scum for having been cheaters.
One thing is if no one knew the effects of it or if it wasn't banned.
They did it knowing fully well.

It is truly a shame.
Hank and Marris have been screwed by cheaters and no one is doing anything at this time to fix it so at least one of them does not continue to roll in his grave.

agreed 100 percent