Any Duck Dynasty Debate Thoughts?

[G G]

Originally Posted by dijit

Greg, my experiences have been very similar. I lived in a very small town in TN for many years. Grew up in the most racist neighborhood I have ever experience anywhere. Cross burnings in yards in the early 80's. A families home burned down in the late 70's because they were the wrong race. I grew up in Indianapolis, IN, Ravenswood was the suburb name. I lived in Tullahoma TN. The racist experiences in Ravenswood far exceeded those in Tullahoma, Winchester, Deckerd, and Belvidere TN combined. It is naive at best to think racism doesnt exist anywhere in this country but I have experienced far worse in the north than the south.

Theres a lot more that I would like to say my friend, but in the spirit of the rules I will be careful to tread lightly. And the fact that most all brothers I have met here, no matter where they are from seem to be more conservative and tolerant even if we don't agree with whatever someone says or believes. I'm not trying to turn this into an argument against anyone, just stating what I have witnessed with my own eyes, much like Phil Robertson said.

[the jiggler]

Read an article this morning about the whole thing that had this quote from Rick Warren which I thought was pretty good:

Our culture has accepted two huge lies. The first is that if you disagree with someone’s lifestyle, you must fear them or hate them. The second is that to love someone means you agree with everything they believe or do. Both are nonsense. You don’t have to compromise convictions to be compassionate.

[The Poet]

Originally Posted by the jiggler

Read an article this morning about the whole thing that had this quote from Rick Warren which I thought was pretty good:

And does it surprise you that a bible-thumper supports thumping bibles?

There is a simple truth his statement skirts. Just because you say you do not hate someone does not mean you do not.

[dijit]

Originally Posted by The Poet

And does it surprise you that a bible-thumper supports thumping bibles?

There is a simple truth his statement skirts. Just because you say you do not hate someone does not mean you do not.

That's like saying just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you.

[G G]

Originally Posted by shilala

I'm mostly with you, Bill. But I think Phil and his family really don't have much desire and/or need for A&E, aside from having some fun, and the notoriety of it all.
Phil blew off a professional football career to pursue his duck hunting/call making dream, and I don't think he'd miss A&E for a minute. I don't think he's all that driven by the mighty dollar as we'd think.
That's just my thought on it.

I agree Scott, contrary to what most believe these day there are people that have personal honor and ethics, morals and integrity.

Originally Posted by MarkinCA

I bumped him for you Greg

BTW, I love the show and its definitely a kick Now, where did I place those bullfrog legs anyways...

Thanks bro.

Originally Posted by dijit

That's like saying just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you.

Bingo.

[the jiggler]

Originally Posted by The Poet

And does it surprise you that a bible-thumper supports thumping bibles?

There is a simple truth his statement skirts. Just because you say you do not hate someone does not mean you do not.

Rick Warren is not a Bible thumper. But I appreciate the ad hominem to get things rolling.

Not really a simple truth... more a suspicion framed as a platitude. Warren's point was that you don't have to sacrifice what you believe to love (really love) someone who disagrees (really disagrees) with your religious beliefs. This is not another way of saying love the sinner hate the sin. It applies to all parties, not just the Bible thumper.

And FWIW, I know orthodox Christians who say they do not hate and live lives that seem to show that they really don't. Course they could all be kicking puppies when I'm not around.

[The Poet]

Originally Posted by the jiggler

Rick Warren is not a Bible thumper. But I appreciate the ad hominem to get things rolling.

Craig, Rick Warren is an evangelical Baptist pastor of a megachurch whose net worth is estimated in excess of $10 million, and whose "official" annual salary is $900,000, yet believed to be more than $2 million. This is not exactly the type of Christian guidance I'd choose myself, but others are free to do so . . . though it does not seem Warren himself would welcome that "free" part.

You live in Charlotte, home to perhaps the most famous and most respected "bible thumper" of all, Billy Graham. His ministry also amassed a vast fortune over his 60 years of preaching, and he was during that time about as fundamentalist a Christian as anyone. Yet, lest my memory fails me, he assiduously tried to avoid embroiling himself in conflicts such as this one, keeping his peace like I was taught a good Christian should. That was my only point.

I dismiss the comment of Rick Warren out of hand because I dismiss its relevance, not its sincerity. By the same token, I dismiss the comments of Charlie Sheen, who has jumped onto Paul Robertson with both feet. Charlie Sheen is . . . well, I don't know exactly WHAT Charlie Sheen is. Hell, I'm not certain HE knows what or who he is from moment to moment. But his hateful vitriol is, to me anyway, as meaningless as the insipid pablum I view Rick Warren's statement to be. Neither seem relevant to the core issue, namely, should Paul Robertson face consequences which stem from statements he made which others found offensive.

Two other quick points. Warren may be right in stating that Paul's remarks to GQ did not express hatred. However, there is a sermon Paul Robertson made in 2010 that is being cited where he quite clearly expressed what I believe are his true feelings about homosexuality, decrying it as a vile sin for which its practitioners shall be condemned to hell, to burn for all eternity. That seems pretty unambiguous to me. Secondly, you can think what you want about Charlie Sheen (as long as you don't defend Paul Robertson's First Amendment right to speak his mind while telling Charlie to STFU ), but at the very least he knows a little something about facing the consequences of his own words and actions. True, it took him a while to accept it with a modicum of grace, and even to apologize for his deeds (sincerely or not, who can say), but at least he moved on . . . not to a place I'd want to be, but it's his life. I can only hope that, upon reflection and with the passage of time, the Robertson clan can, individually and/or collectively, can reach a similar insight, if not a true epiphany.

[shilala]

Our culture has accepted two huge lies. The first is that if you disagree with someone’s lifestyle, you must fear them or hate them. The second is that to love someone means you agree with everything they believe or do. Both are nonsense. You don’t have to compromise convictions to be compassionate.

I'm happy Craig posted this. I posted the same observation in my words earlier, but in order to add some teeth to my argument, I gave up some info that shouldn't be on the board, and deleted it.
I think Rick overreaches a bit, but is 100% accurate. Maybe not "our culture", but a good portion of the world at large, I suppose. Heck, I don't know.

Nobody ever has to compromise convictions to be compassionate.
"Love thy neighbor as I have loved you." Unconditional love. Solved.

[kelmac07]

[mosesbotbol]

I've seen the show a couple of times. If you want the show to be honest and real, people are going to have real opinions that may not sit well with PC "there's only one world view" crowd.

The anti-Christian propagandists have been rampant for a while and it's refreshing to see them put down for once. The inclusive societal view is only inclusive to their vision. There is no tolerance in their eyes.

Funny how politicians are keeping quiet (mostly) with elections around the corner and no one wants to put words to paper that could bite them either way.

[G G]

Originally Posted by mosesbotbol

I've seen the show a couple of times. If you want the show to be honest and real, people are going to have real opinions that may not sit well with PC "there's only one world view" crowd.

The anti-Christian propagandists have been rampant for a while and it's refreshing to see them put down for once. The inclusive societal view is only inclusive to their vision. There is no tolerance in their eyes.

Funny how politicians are keeping quiet (mostly) with elections around the corner and no one wants to put words to paper that could bite them either way.

Yessir, I agree.

[The Poet]

I was born and raised in NC, lived in TN for 3 years after college, and have lived in NJ over 30 years. I cannot disagree with Greg and Michael about the existence of racism in the North, as it has at times shocked me too. But that's not the point. On the one hand, I am rational enough (or cynical enough, if you prefer) to believe that EVERYONE is racist, regardless of their race. It is primal, even evolutionary, and part of our DNA. The trick is not to let racism affect the way you treat people, for that is not racism but rather bigotry. There is a difference. Paul Robertson may never have allowed his "primal" racism to affect the way he treated individual blacks he has doubtless encountered throughout his life, I'll grant you that. But that does not mean his neighbor hasn't, so his statement that he never heard a black man he was hoeing cotton beside in his youth say "Doggone white folks" is, at best, naive, and at worst downright stupid and deceitful.

Defending a foolish racist comment by saying racism exists outside of Louisiana is, to me, a meaningless defense. It is true, but so what? It does not excuse it, wherever it is.

[G G]

Originally Posted by The Poet

I was born and raised in NC, lived in TN for 3 years after college, and have lived in NJ over 30 years. I cannot disagree with Greg and Michael about the existence of racism in the North, as it has at times shocked me too. But that's not the point. On the one hand, I am rational enough (or cynical enough, if you prefer) to believe that EVERYONE is racist, regardless of their race. It is primal, even evolutionary, and part of our DNA. The trick is not to let racism affect the way you treat people, for that is not racism but rather bigotry. There is a difference. Paul Robertson may never have allowed his "primal" racism to affect the way he treated individual blacks he has doubtless encountered throughout his life, I'll grant you that. But that does not mean his neighbor hasn't, so his statement that he never heard a black man he was hoeing cotton beside in his youth say "Doggone white folks" is, at best, naive, and at worst downright stupid and deceitful.
Defending a foolish racist comment by saying racism exists outside of Louisiana is, to me, a meaningless defense. It is true, but so what? It does not excuse it, wherever it is.

I take from this that you think just because someone that is white somewhere at some time was racist, then any statement I ever make about the subject HAS to be in relation to everything any white person ever said or did in the history of the nation or I am naïve, downright stupid and deceitful. I don't get your logic here but to each his own. I don't agree with your contention either that everyone is a bigot, but hey you can choose to look at it that way if you want to. I didn't try to excuse racism by saying it exists outside of LA, simply was pointing out that I am sick and tired of the old southern cliché (you had nothing to do with that) that all southerners are a bunch of rednecks that are always looking for a reason to lynch someone.

[dijit]

Originally Posted by G G

I take from this that you think just because someone that is white somewhere at some time was racist, then any statement I ever make about the subject HAS to be in relation to everything any white person ever said or did in the history of the nation or I am naïve, downright stupid and deceitful. I don't get your logic here but to each his own. I don't agree with your contention either that everyone is a bigot, but hey you can choose to look at it that way if you want to. I didn't try to excuse racism by saying it exists outside of LA, simply was pointing out that I am sick and tired of the old southern cliché (you had nothing to do with that) that all southerners are a bunch of rednecks that are always looking for a reason to lynch someone.

Greg, he said everyone is racist he implied that is not necessarily a bad thing. Its like everyone sees color. Bigotry is where I read the difference between peoples perception of racism and the act of bigotry. I dont know that I would say that anyone or everyone that has grown up in the south if they say they never heard either side speak negatively of the other are naive stupid or deceitful. There are a few of us out here that have tried all our lives to live and reflect an honorable life. Maybe Phil was just lucky enough to be surrounded by a whole herd of just such people.

[G G]

Originally Posted by dijit

Greg, he said everyone is racist he implied that is not necessarily a bad thing. Its like everyone sees color. Bigotry is where I read the difference between peoples perception of racism and the act of bigotry. I dont know that I would say that anyone or everyone that has grown up in the south if they say they never heard either side speak negatively of the other are naive stupid or deceitful. There are a few of us out here that have tried all our lives to live and reflect an honorable life. Maybe Phil was just lucky enough to be surrounded by a whole herd of just such people.

I will repeat what I said in the first post. I'm not saying or ever thought that lots, and lots of people aren't racist everywhere. I certainly know people who are. But not everyone is. To somehow say what he said was bigoted or racist is a stretch in my opinion because frankly I don't see it. and I know that there are those that will say I am a bigot just because I say that, and if so then fine, but just because they say it don't make it so.

[G G]

And let me further say that I am not conceding that anything he said was racist, the man simply states what he saw with his own eyes in his part of the world. Personally I think to make this racist is disingenuous at best for all the news media and race baiters.

[pnoon]

Let's tread carefully, Gentlemen.

[dijit]

I still think we should all get together have a smoke and figure out how to fix New York. Or maybe San Diego.

[The Poet]

Originally Posted by pnoon

Let's tread carefully, Gentlemen.

I'm trying, brother, and expressed my misgivings when I started this thread.

And to be clear, as Michael noted, when I said I believe everyone is racist, I did not say that every white American is racist, regardless of geography. I said EVERYONE, meaning just that, regardless of race, region, nationality, or religion. That troop of hominids across the stream competes with mine for food and for water, and has abducted our females in the past. They are not like us, and are our enemy, and they must be kept in their place . . . or eliminated.

How much more primal can you get?

[RevSmoke]

Originally Posted by The Poet

I'm trying, brother, and expressed my misgivings when I started this thread.

And to be clear, as Michael noted, when I said I believe everyone is racist, I did not say that every white American is racist, regardless of geography. I said EVERYONE, meaning just that, regardless of race, region, nationality, or religion. That troop of hominids across the stream competes with mine for food and for water, and has abducted our females in the past. They are not like us, and are our enemy, and they must be kept in their place . . . or eliminated.

How much more primal can you get?

Really, you believe this? Wow! I am so sorry that life has treated you so poorly that you believe all people are this way.

It is human nature to desire to be part of a community.

It has also been proven in studies that hatred/animosity/bigotry/racism (whatever you want to call it) is a learned behavior. I personally believe there is only one [1] race, the human race, and there are just simply slight genetic differences which appear outwardly to be great differences [melatonin causes change in skin color for instance]. Studies have been done by placing children who had never had interaction with others whose skin color was different, into a room together - and those children never batted an eye and simply played together.

My own sons had their early years without exposure to those whose melatonin amounts caused differences in appearance. And when we were at a hotel pool one day with a mixed bag of children, they immediately found the children to join in play who were their size and age - and the skin color affected them not at all. When asked later who they were playing with in the pool, we were given names, nothing about their physical attributes was even mentioned.

Do I know people who would be labeled bigot? You betcha! I think that if we stopped thinking of these slight genetic differences (skin color, etc...) as being different races, some of the problems that do still exist would decrease. Of course the thought that these genetic differences are different races is something that we can larger blame on early evolutionists (Darwin being one who thought & taught such).

Peace of the Lord be with you.