Anyone have issues with the Liga No.9?

[Brlesq]

LP#9's tend to be rolled denser than most cigars (and that is why they feel heavier) so draw and burn issues are not uncommon, especially in humid weather. That is why its always good to have some sort of a cigar poker to save them.

[Dunkel]

Originally Posted by Brlesq

LP#9's tend to be rolled denser than most cigars (and that is why they feel heavier) so draw and burn issues are not uncommon, especially in humid weather. That is why its always good to have some sort of a cigar poker to save them.

This is interesting. I was gifted a #9 Belicoso and smoked it a week or so ago. It was very light in hand and was underpacked IMO. It's draw was like a drinking straw and took me about 45 minutes to smoke that Belicoso. While it tasted good they could have added more tobacco.

[Brlesq]

Originally Posted by Dunkel

This is interesting. I was gifted a #9 Belicoso and smoked it a week or so ago. It was very light in hand and was underpacked IMO. It's draw was like a drinking straw and took me about 45 minutes to smoke that Belicoso. While it tasted good they could have added more tobacco.

Hmmm... Mine are all at least 2 years or older, and I have never experienced that, and the Beli's are my favorite of this blend. Wonder if its a newer one and maybe they've lightened up on the leaf count to make more of them since they are always so scarce?

[T.G]

Originally Posted by Brlesq

Hmmm... Mine are all at least 2 years or older, and I have never experienced that, and the Beli's are my favorite of this blend. Wonder if its a newer one and maybe they've lightened up on the leaf count to make more of them since they are always so scarce?

That's a helluva jump to make. One guy gets an underfilled cigar that slips past QC and all of a sudden your assertion is that the entire line is being intentionally underfilled to increase production?

No, they have not "lightened up on the leaf". The current scarcity is mostly due to a few years of wrapper leaf shortages and other issues, so "lighting up on the (filler) leaf" wouldn't do anything to help those regards. Additionally, any change to the filler would noticeably alter the flavor.

The guys over at DE wouldn't even consider doing anything like that. They aren't going to sacrifice their flagship cigar, or any of their lines for that matter, into crap just to milk an extra 10% production by shorting tobacco. In fact, I can't think of any major manufacturer who would be that foolish and dishonest.

Since they can only make as many LPs as materials allow, you have the alternate products they have released, the Undercrown made from more readily available tobaccos and the Papas Fritas made from the trimmings of the LP line.

As for the cigar Dunkel got, sounds like a "bad" stick. It is a handmade product after all. And while they do catch a lot of the off cigars, sometimes things slip past QC (hey, they're only human too).

[pnoon]

Originally Posted by T.G

No, they have not "lightened up on the leaf". The current scarcity is mostly due to a few years of wrapper leaf shortages and other issues, so "lighting up on the (filler) leaf" wouldn't do anything to help those regards. Additionally, any change to the filler would noticeably alter the flavor.

The guys over at DE wouldn't even consider doing anything like that. They aren't going to sacrifice their flagship cigar, or any of their lines for that matter, into crap just to milk an extra 10% production by shorting tobacco. In fact, I can't think of any major manufacturer who would be that foolish and dishonest.

Since they can only make as many LPs as materials allow, you have the alternate products they have released, the Undercrown made from more readily available tobaccos and the Papas Fritas made from the trimmings of the LP line.

As for the cigar Dunkel got, sounds like a "bad" stick. It is a handmade product after all. And while they do catch a lot of the off cigars, sometimes things slip past QC (hey, they're only human too).

Thanks, Phil.

[Brlesq]

Originally Posted by T.G

That's a helluva jump to make. One guy gets an underfilled cigar that slips past QC and all of a sudden your assertion is that the entire line is being intentionally underfilled to increase production?

No, they have not "lightened up on the leaf". The current scarcity is mostly due to a few years of wrapper leaf shortages and other issues, so "lighting up on the (filler) leaf" wouldn't do anything to help those regards. Additionally, any change to the filler would noticeably alter the flavor.

The guys over at DE wouldn't even consider doing anything like that. They aren't going to sacrifice their flagship cigar, or any of their lines for that matter, into crap just to milk an extra 10% production by shorting tobacco. In fact, I can't think of any major manufacturer who would be that foolish and dishonest.

Since they can only make as many LPs as materials allow, you have the alternate products they have released, the Undercrown made from more readily available tobaccos and the Papas Fritas made from the trimmings of the LP line.

As for the cigar Dunkel got, sounds like a "bad" stick. It is a handmade product after all. And while they do catch a lot of the off cigars, sometimes things slip past QC (hey, they're only human too).

That was a question, not an assertion. But I'm not sure it would make the cigar "bad" if they did. I'm a big fan of all things Liga Privada, and JD and Steve Saka have always struck me as stand-up guys. No insult meant by that question, so I'm sorry if it came out the wrong way.

[jluck]

I would suit and/or burn the B&M down.

[T.G]

Originally Posted by Brlesq

That was a question, not an assertion. But I'm not sure it would make the cigar "bad" if they did. I'm a big fan of all things Liga Privada, and JD and Steve Saka have always struck me as stand-up guys. No insult meant by that question, so I'm sorry if it came out the wrong way.

Understood.

It would totally change the flavor, there are 5 distinctly different leaves in the filler, removing one would be leaving out a component of that flavor.

DE uses a slightly non-standard folding system for the filler when rolling, they have some extra folds in there to create additional air passages through the filler. In order for the extra folds & passages to work though, they have to use a bit less tobacco in the filler than if they were to roll it with the more traditional methods. IIRC, Jon said it was like 15%. Now, if you significantly short that by making all the leaves smaller, then you're going to have so much draw through there, the cigar isn't going to burn even remotely evenly, and the ratio from wrapper & binder vs filler will change enough that the wrapper, if it will even burn at that point, will be overwhelmingly noticeable.

The other thing is that even if they were to short all the filler by trimming the leaves a bit smaller, it wouldn't be enough to make another LP out of. Without doing it, there's already enough trimming that doesn't get used in the LP to make the Papas Fritas and still leave a pile of scrap for picadura, adding to the LP scrap won't get them more PFs, it'll just make a bigger pile of picadura and a bunch of LPs with the draw of a paper towel roll tube. Neither of which are worth a whole lot.

If I had to guess, what happened to Dunkel's cigar was that possibly the filler bunch was cut/torn a bit small - enough to open it up a tiny bit, but yet not enough to cause the bundle to weigh light when QC puts the finished wheel of cigars on the scale. If a tiny amount less filler causes a cigar to draw like that, then imagine what a significant removal would be like...

[oooo35980]

Originally Posted by T.G

DE uses a slightly non-standard folding system for the filler when rolling, they have some extra folds in there to create additional air passages through the filler.

That's interesting, sometimes when my cutter isn't at hand I take a pocket knife and cut around the cap of a cigar, then pull off the cap, leaving the internals unmolested. I've noticed that a lot of LPs have this little divot dead center in the head of the cigar. Never noticed it on any other stick, not that I've gone around checking for it. I have wondered about that little divot a few times, is it there on purpose to facilitate LPs near unfailingly good draw? Hell has anyone else noticed it?

Alternatively I could be crazy and imagining things.

[oooo35980]

Originally Posted by Brlesq

LP#9's tend to be rolled denser than most cigars (and that is why they feel heavier) so draw and burn issues are not uncommon, especially in humid weather. That is why its always good to have some sort of a cigar poker to save them.

I have smoked a lot of Ligas, I'd put them as close to perfect (Construction Wise) as any cigar I've ever smoked. I've had a few (Very Few) issues with crooked burn, and a couple rather loose draws, but I can't remember any tight draws or plugged cigars. In fact their construction is one of the reasons I like them, I hate fiddling with a cigar and Ligas very rarely require fiddling. Granted I haven't had one in a while, So maybe they've gone down hill lately?

As for returning it, I most definitely am not a rich man, but I've never considered returning a bad stick. Maybe if I bought one to sit down and smoke at a B&M and it was completely plugged I would, but not once I got it home.