CigarSniper Beta is open to all this weekend

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by Cigahs

Now we know this site may not appeal to everyone's tastes, but if you found that your experience was enjoyable then why would you not spend the same amount of money as you would at Famous for that product you wanted and be entertained for free?

What kind of sadist is entertained unsuccessfully bidding on an item? Theoretically speaking, couldn't this same, "entertainment" be had at C-Bid for free?

[T.G]

Originally Posted by Stephen

What kind of sadist is entertained unsuccessfully bidding on an item? Theoretically speaking, couldn't this same, "entertainment" be had at C-Bid for free?

I think the point that Humberto was trying to get across was that if you were going to buy those cigars from Famous, you can buy some bids at cigarsniper instead, use the bids to try and get the cigars for less, maybe having a bit of fun in the process as some people enjoy these type of auctions, and, if you are unsuccessful at winning them in the auction, you can apply the money from all the bids you entered against the purchase price of the cigars, so you aren't out anything really. Basically, if you only bid on what you were going to buy anyway, you're gambling odds are quite good - you might win, and at worst, you'll break even and have a bit of entertainment in the process.

Also CBid is proxy bidding, so you just enter in your max bid and walk away, the software does the rest, from an excitement point of view, it's up there with watching paint dry. CigarSniper is live bidding, so you actually have some level of interaction with the other bidders, sure, it's not quite the same as being in the same room and having an auctioneer call bids, but it's certainly more interactive than the proxy bid system, and some people find this interaction enjoyable.

[T.G]

Originally Posted by Cigahs

Anyway, we created the BUY NOW function on this site so that no matter how many paid bids you use on an auction you still have the opportunity to pay the difference towards our everyday low price (same as Famous) and lose nothing. If you decide to purchase the product we'll also give you all of the free bids you used on that item to continue entertaining yourself on another auction.

Now that's a cool feature. Certainly better than what the other penny sites offer, which is, well, nothing.

[Bageland2000]

Originally Posted by Cigahs

There seems to be some confusion as to our motives and reasoning behind creating a site like CigarSniper.com. Now, we know there are penny auction sites out there whose sole purpose is to separate your hard earned money from your wallet without any other benefit than being somewhat entertained. This is not the case with Cigar Sniper.

We've tried to change the concept behind a penny auction to offer a tangible benefit to any one who decides to participate. I'm sure that the people who purchase from Famous on a regular basis understand that our everyday pricing offers a pretty good value, otherwise we probably wouldn't be in business for over 70 years. On Cigar Sniper we are offering the same pricing to anyone who uses a bid they paid for on any auction.

Let's say you normally go to Famous to buy a particular 5 pack that cost's you $30. It would be worthwhile for you to check and see if there is an auction running on that 5 pack at Sniper. If you spent $30 for 50 bids you have 50 opportunities during the course of that auction to receive that product at a discounted price. Actually, 60 chances because we give you 10 free promo bids with the $30 purchase.

If you use those 50 bids on that auction, you have reached the point where you have already paid for that product. All you need to do is input your shipping info through the Buy Now function and we send it to you. Now you may ask, how come I can't use "Free" bids towards the purchase price? Well they were Free and we'd quickly be under water if we let people purchase something for nothing, now wouldn't we?

Anyway, we created the BUY NOW function on this site so that no matter how many paid bids you use on an auction you still have the opportunity to pay the difference towards our everyday low price (same as Famous) and lose nothing. If you decide to purchase the product we'll also give you all of the free bids you used on that item to continue entertaining yourself on another auction.

Now we know this system isn't perfect. Different people are willing to take different levels of risk depending upon the reward. If you use 5 bids on a $200+ box of Ashton chances are that you won't want to cough up the rest for the box, but as adults we all decide whether or not to take that risk. If you wanted to purchase that box to begin with then you would have over 350 opportunities during the course of the auction to get it at a lower cost than you would have. If you didn't win using those 350 bids then you'd be getting it for what you originally expected to pay.

Everyday, people download video games on their iPhones, go to Disney World, or Vegas and pay to be entertained largely with nothing tangible to show for it. What you lose in Vegas, stays in Vegas.

Now we know this site may not appeal to everyone's tastes, but if you found that your experience was enjoyable then why would you not spend the same amount of money as you would at Famous for that product you wanted and be entertained for free?

Your ridiculous rationale trying desperately to explain why your site is somehow different than the other penny auction sites that rip off its customers has completely soured me to famous cigars (and I've purchased from you guys a number of times). Capitalism at its finest is also me never ordering off of famous' site again because of the BS that they tried to sell to the cigar community. Anyone who can't see this for the crap it is can feel free to donate their hard-earned money to Famous Cigars.

Originally Posted by Cigahs

largely with nothing tangible to show for it.

They say it, not me

[ApexAZ]

Originally Posted by Cigahs

There seems to be some confusion as to our motives and reasoning behind creating a site like CigarSniper.com. Now, we know there are penny auction sites out there whose sole purpose is to separate your hard earned money from your wallet without any other benefit than being somewhat entertained. This is not the case with Cigar Sniper.

We've tried to change the concept behind a penny auction to offer a tangible benefit to any one who decides to participate. I'm sure that the people who purchase from Famous on a regular basis understand that our everyday pricing offers a pretty good value, otherwise we probably wouldn't be in business for over 70 years. On Cigar Sniper we are offering the same pricing to anyone who uses a bid they paid for on any auction.

Let's say you normally go to Famous to buy a particular 5 pack that cost's you $30. It would be worthwhile for you to check and see if there is an auction running on that 5 pack at Sniper. If you spent $30 for 50 bids you have 50 opportunities during the course of that auction to receive that product at a discounted price. Actually, 60 chances because we give you 10 free promo bids with the $30 purchase.

If you use those 50 bids on that auction, you have reached the point where you have already paid for that product. All you need to do is input your shipping info through the Buy Now function and we send it to you. Now you may ask, how come I can't use "Free" bids towards the purchase price? Well they were Free and we'd quickly be under water if we let people purchase something for nothing, now wouldn't we?

Anyway, we created the BUY NOW function on this site so that no matter how many paid bids you use on an auction you still have the opportunity to pay the difference towards our everyday low price (same as Famous) and lose nothing. If you decide to purchase the product we'll also give you all of the free bids you used on that item to continue entertaining yourself on another auction.

Now we know this system isn't perfect. Different people are willing to take different levels of risk depending upon the reward. If you use 5 bids on a $200+ box of Ashton chances are that you won't want to cough up the rest for the box, but as adults we all decide whether or not to take that risk. If you wanted to purchase that box to begin with then you would have over 350 opportunities during the course of the auction to get it at a lower cost than you would have. If you didn't win using those 350 bids then you'd be getting it for what you originally expected to pay.

Everyday, people download video games on their iPhones, go to Disney World, or Vegas and pay to be entertained largely with nothing tangible to show for it. What you lose in Vegas, stays in Vegas.

Now we know this site may not appeal to everyone's tastes, but if you found that your experience was enjoyable then why would you not spend the same amount of money as you would at Famous for that product you wanted and be entertained for free?

If you don't use the "Buy Now" feature before the auction ends, do you lose your bids, or can you opt to buy it with the remaining bids needed for the item?

If you choose to "Buy Now" on a single lot item, do the other people who were bidding lose their bids because the lot is no longer available, or is the item taken from another inventory?

[Cigahs]

Originally Posted by ApexAZ

If you don't use the "Buy Now" feature before the auction ends, do you lose your bids, or can you opt to buy it with the remaining bids needed for the item?

If you choose to "Buy Now" on a single lot item, do the other people who were bidding lose their bids because the lot is no longer available, or is the item taken from another inventory?

The 'Buy Now' feature is designed to be used only after the auction is over for losing bidders and only for 'paid bids' used. Free bids cannot be used for a buy now purchase but will be returned to you if you end up buying the item your were bidding on.

In the event you lose a bidding war on something we have no more inventory on, you will be given 'buy now' options for comparable items.

[hotreds]

Yup, I joined one of thyese penny sites and spent $100 until light dawned on Mr. Fog just what a rip-off it really was. Now I keep getting emails telling me how much they miss me and offering 20 free bids. Yup, I'm sure they do miss me, but not too much as PT Barnum knows.

[Eleven]

It's good to see that so many people have seen these sites for what they are. You know there are still plenty of people who will funnel their money to them though.

[maninblack]

What a joke this is. And people fall for this scam. Sad.

[quantim0]

Capitalism at its finest I say.

If you put 30 sec of thought into it you realize what a waste of money it is, if you don't "a fool and his money are soon parted"

[shilala]

Initially I thought this was a real rape-job. I'm glad Humberto explained the buy it now function.
If a guy uses the site to try and get something for nothing, he's going to get nothing for something, which is exactly what an intelligent grown-up should expect. The lighter wallet might teach that person a valuable lesson.
If a guy uses the site wisely and has already set his mind on buying the cigars he's bidding on, he can't lose. Famous has always had fair, decent prices. They also have very good and personal customer service that stands head and shoulders above Cigars International.
It's simple to see where the "offset" money will come from. It's going to come from guys who are convinced they can get something for nothing, either motivated by greed or avarice. Or it's going to come from folks who are willing to pay a little money for a bit of gambling "thrill". If that guy enjoys losing his hard-earned money via gambling, then he's gotten exactly the value he was looking for. People like to lose money in lotteries, casinos, card games, whatever. I'm not personally a fan because I'd just as soon light my money on fire and warm my hands than throw it away at a casino, there's no entertainment value in that stuff for me (Thank God). I do understand it though. My wife loves to lose money at the casinos and slots. I play the lottery occasionally, and I love playing poker with the guys, It's fun.

The bottom line is that this thing is not set up as a skinner like most penny auctions. It's got a built in can't lose function with the buy it now option at auction's end.
Actually it has two built-in can't lose functions. Leave it alone and you can't lose a cent. That's what I plan to do, it'll be real easy.

[Bageland2000]

I don't understand why people jump to defend retailers that partake in this type of thing. I clearly understand that an intelligent person can utilize this service without much risk and can walk away without really any loss. The point is though is that they're trying to avoid talking about the fact that many people will "lose $100 before they see the light." Not because they're motivated by greed or avarice. They'll lose it because they didn't understand going into the auction how much money they stood to loose. Call them stupid if you will, I say that the rules of the penny auction game are rigged to take people's money away before they realize what they are getting themselves into. Call it cigar gambling and I'll hush up, call it anything else (an AUCTION? No.) and you're exploiting people by taking their hard earned money and giving them NOTHING.

[T.G]

Originally Posted by Bageland2000

I don't understand why people jump to defend retailers that partake in this type of thing. I clearly understand that an intelligent person can utilize this service without much risk and can walk away without really any loss. The point is though is that they're trying to avoid talking about the fact that many people will "lose $100 before they see the light." Not because they're motivated by greed or avarice. They'll lose it because they didn't understand going into the auction how much money they stood to loose. Call them stupid if you will, I say that the rules of the penny auction game are rigged to take people's money away before they realize what they are getting themselves into. Call it cigar gambling and I'll hush up, call it anything else (an AUCTION? No.) and you're exploiting people by taking their hard earned money and giving them NOTHING.

Fine. It's cigar gambling.

[slimboli]

Originally Posted by T.G

Fine. It's cigar gambling.

I agree. It's a joke. I tried this once on another site for electronics ... and I lost about $50 before I came to my senses.

Seriously ... it is nothing more than a scam to get your money.

[big a]

Originally Posted by Bageland2000

I don't understand why people jump to defend retailers that partake in this type of thing. I clearly understand that an intelligent person can utilize this service without much risk and can walk away without really any loss. The point is though is that they're trying to avoid talking about the fact that many people will "lose $100 before they see the light." Not because they're motivated by greed or avarice. They'll lose it because they didn't understand going into the auction how much money they stood to loose. Call them stupid if you will, I say that the rules of the penny auction game are rigged to take people's money away before they realize what they are getting themselves into. Call it cigar gambling and I'll hush up, call it anything else (an AUCTION? No.) and you're exploiting people by taking their hard earned money and giving them NOTHING.

First off, all the posts are making me confused. I have used Famous lots of times and still plan to do so. I am not on any sides and not trying to get caught up in the middles of this just trying to understand.

As Scott said, it does not appear that this site is set up to be the scam that other penny auction sites are. If you spend $60 in bids and don't win than the $60 of bids you spent can still go toward the buy it now price after the "auction" is over. Its not as though the $ spend on bids just goes to site and the bidder gets nothing. If this is incorrect that I appologize but that is my understadning from the above posts.

I am missing why this is so bad for the bidders? Yea you might have to pay MSRP or whatever the buy it now price is, but i can't tell you how many items on Cbid I see go for more than MSRP.

[themoneycollector]

I agree, this is a sham hands down.

So what that they added a consolation buy-it-now feature. They're not doing this because they feel sorry for the non-winning bidders. They're hoping they multiply their sales from a single auction from the people who were suckered in to begin with.

[shilala]

I see where you're coming from, Andrew. I just don't subscribe to the "people are being lead off a cliff by an evil giant" slant, or at least not so much. I believe in people taking responsibility for their own actions, and I don't accept ignorance as an excuse. It never worked for me.
Is it right for people to take advantage of people's ignorance? No.
Has it happened since the dawn of time? Yes.
Will it continue forever? Yes.
Do I choose to take advantage of people? Absolutely not.

Every lesson I have ever learned in my life has come at some expense, many straight through my wallet. I've never succumbed to this particular "evil", but I've submitted myself to countless others, and by doing so I learned valuable lessons. I'm employing one of those lessons regarding this auction model. That lesson says "Don't mess with it, you know better."
I think of these types of things as opportunities to learn. When I pray for patience, God doesn't just grant me patience. He grants me a trying situation where I can learn to exercise patience.
Here lies one of those situations where people can benefit and learn, even if it costs them money, and even if someone else benefits by taking it, and even if it's morally distasteful if not outright wrong. They'll get stung smart.

I think it's a crazy gamble for Famous, and why they'd even bother with something as gray-area as this, I have no idea. (Okay, I do have an idea. Money.) It can only serve to hurt their reputation, which it already has in lots of guy's eyes here, including my own.

To go one step further, I think it's important to allow these types of things to go on. It goes to protecting freedom and liberty. I have no desire for some greater good to watch over me and "protect" me by telling me what I can or can't do. I choose to reserve my right to not wear a helmet, give live birth to a walrus, not read the directions, lose hard-earned money gambling, get an STD from a toothless hooker, run with scissors, and stand under a piano that's hanging in the air.
In order to preserve my rights, I'm more than willing to accept an off-color cigar auction.

And yes, it's cigar gambling, plain and simple. Why they call any of the penny auctions "auctions" is beyond me. Probably the same reason they call free online poker "free online poker".

[Bageland2000]

Originally Posted by shilala

I see where you're coming from, Andrew. I just don't subscribe to the "people are being lead off a cliff by an evil giant" slant, or at least not so much. I believe in people taking responsibility for their own actions, and I don't accept ignorance as an excuse. It never worked for me.
Is it right for people to take advantage of people's ignorance? No.
Has it happened since the dawn of time? Yes.
Will it continue forever? Yes.
Do I choose to take advantage of people? Absolutely not.

Every lesson I have ever learned in my life has come at some expense, many straight through my wallet. I've never succumbed to this particular "evil", but I've submitted myself to countless others, and by doing so I learned valuable lessons. I'm employing one of those lessons regarding this auction model. That lesson says "Don't mess with it, you know better."
I think of these types of things as opportunities to learn. When I pray for patience, God doesn't just grant me patience. He grants me a trying situation where I can learn to exercise patience.
Here lies one of those situations where people can benefit and learn, even if it costs them money, and even if someone else benefits by taking it, and even if it's morally distasteful if not outright wrong. They'll get stung smart.

I think it's a crazy gamble for Famous, and why they'd even bother with something as gray-area as this, I have no idea. (Okay, I do have an idea. Money.) It can only serve to hurt their reputation, which it already has in lots of guy's eyes here, including my own.

To go one step further, I think it's important to allow these types of things to go on. It goes to protecting freedom and liberty. I have no desire for some greater good to watch over me and "protect" me by telling me what I can or can't do. I choose to reserve my right to not wear a helmet, give live birth to a walrus, not read the directions, lose hard-earned money gambling, get an STD from a toothless hooker, run with scissors, and stand under a piano that's hanging in the air.
In order to preserve my rights, I'm more than willing to accept an off-color cigar auction.

And yes, it's cigar gambling, plain and simple. Why they call any of the penny auctions "auctions" is beyond me. Probably the same reason they call free online poker "free online poker".

I understand everything you're saying. TBH I think if I respond anymore than we are getting dangerously close to a political discussion and I want to avoid that (In the interest of following the forum rules.) I think we both have stated our points to the extent that is necessary on this forum. I see this as something that is set up with the sole purpose of exploiting people, you see it as similar but state that it should be allowed in order to maintain our American freedoms. I'll choose to stop the discussion here in the interest of keeping the spirit of the forums intact (and choose to never order from Famous again.)

[shilala]

Originally Posted by Bageland2000

I understand everything you're saying. TBH I think if I respond anymore than we are getting dangerously close to a political discussion and I want to avoid that (In the interest of following the forum rules.) I think we both have stated our points to the extent that is necessary on this forum. I see this as something that is set up with the sole purpose of exploiting people, you see it as similar but state that it should be allowed in order to maintain our American freedoms. I'll choose to stop the discussion here in the interest of keeping the spirit of the forums intact (and choose to never order from Famous again.)

Andrew, I don't think we're very far apart on this at all. There's not a point you've made that I disagree with. I'd love to continue the conversation by pm, if you like. Regardless whether we agree completely, I already respect and admire your thoughts on this.
Bottom line, I'd like to not see any of it happening, but I lump it in with all sorts of other business practices I'd like to see go away.
My guess is that once tried in court, penny auctions will be classed as gambling, as they should. Once that happens, that should be the end of it until...
That's where I have to stop before I wax politico.

[themoneycollector]

Great way to put it Scott. At this point, no one's gambled anything but FSS.

That post deserves a rep bump.