Is there a Honda Accord Doctor in the house?

Zoomschwortz · 11-25-2009, 02:46 PM

I bought a 1990 Honda Accord with 63,000 original miles from my Dad. He had the timing chain, timing chain tensioner and water pump (all new factory Honda parts) replaced just before he sold it to me.

The car is in great shape, but ever since the work was done, it seems to have what sounds like very loud valve train (or loose timing chain) noise.

When the mechanic did the work, he said that the tensioner was missing a bolt from the factory and said it must have never been there since he couldn't find it, so he installed a new bolt.

I checked the valve lash, thinking it may be loose, but found that all were adjusted to .001" above minimum spec.

I don't have a manual for the engine, but I'm hoping we might have a Honda mechanic on this site.

QUESTION:
Do these tensioners have provision for a hold down bolt that can be tightened after collapsing the tensioner to aid in removal of the timing chain?

I am thinking/hoping that the missing bolt wasn't supposed to be there and when he installed the new bolt, it locked the tensioner so it could no longer take up the slack in the timing chain when the engine is running.

Thanks in advance.
Ken

Blindjimme · 11-25-2009, 03:19 PM

Take the bolt out and see if there is a tension load on the arm. You will be able to feel it.

I'm not a Honda Doctor, but I did stay at a.... anyway, try it

Zoomschwortz · 11-25-2009, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blindjimme

Take the bolt out and see if there is a tension load on the arm. You will be able to feel it.

I'm not a Honda Doctor, but I did stay at a.... anyway, try it

I have thought about doing this, but it will be a major PIA to do this, so I figured I would ask first and save myself hours of work for nothing.

Thanks
Ken

St. Lou Stu · 11-25-2009, 04:02 PM

Shoot me an email addy
After a quick look, that car has a belt, not a chain.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zoomschwortz

QUESTION:
Do these tensioners have provision for a hold down bolt that can be tightened after collapsing the tensioner to aid in removal of the timing chain?

I am thinking/hoping that the missing bolt wasn't supposed to be there and when he installed the new bolt, it locked the tensioner so it could no longer take up the slack in the timing chain when the engine is running.

Thanks in advance.
Ken

To answer the question. they do have that provision, and the factory actually uses it during assembly. That is why the mechanic may have thought a bolt was missing. Because the tensioner will bear a witness mark from the bolt that was temporarily used during assembly. Is that what you were after? Yes, that bolt will keep the tensioner from doing its job.

Zoomschwortz · 11-25-2009, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by St. Lou Stu

Shoot me an email addy
After a quick look, that car has a belt, not a chain.

Thanks, I'll send it.

That's why I hate not having a manual. He said he had the chain changed, so I've been worried it would cause the problems that happen on a Toyota 22RE when it wears through the cover.

Looks like I'll be tearing into the engine to remove the bolt and then hope everything is okay.

Hope the belt didn't slip. It runs good, so my guess is it didn't slip.

Thanks again.
Ken

St. Lou Stu · 11-25-2009, 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zoomschwortz

Thanks, I'll send it.

That's why I hate not having a manual. He said he had the chain changed, so I've been worried it would cause the problems that happen on a Toyota 22RE when it wears through the cover.

Looks like I'll be tearing into the engine to remove the bolt and then hope everything is okay.

Thanks again.
Ken

You should go through the whole belt timing and tension setting procedures just like you replaced the belt. The belt may have skipped a cog due to the lack of tension if it was driven much at all. in the mean time DO NOT DRIVE IT.
Hopefully no damage was done.
Give the bolt back to dude.

Blindjimme · 11-25-2009, 04:25 PM

Ken,

Go to manualspace.com They have a free download. Now I didn't open it to see how detailed it is, but maybe it will help.

JB

Edit: Here ya go
http://manualspace.com/honda-accord-...ice-manual.htm

St. Lou Stu · 11-25-2009, 04:41 PM

OK, I just read what you said about it running good.
I would also assume that it did not slip.
But, since you will have it apart you may want to check the timing marks.
Once the engine has been started, it isn't usually real easy to line all the marks back up due to the differing pulley sizes and rates of rotation.
That said, I would follow the belt replacement procedure and re-time and re-adjust tension.

Ya know? while you got it apart ya may as well.
I'm a piece of mind guy though. I'll do an extra 10 minutes of work for that reassurance.
Especially if I am fixing someone else's mistake.

You got my addy, email me if you need factory manual pages.

Zoomschwortz · 11-25-2009, 05:05 PM

Thank you so much Tim.

The combination of the loud noise and the story about the missing bolt on the tensioner just didn't sound right.

I have worked on other engines that had ways to lock the tensioner and I couldn't help but think that his engine might have something like that as well.

After seeing the information you sent me, it all makes sense.

The problem I now face is I'll be going in for surgery on December 8th and I won't be able to work on the engine for a while. I've been off work since October and won't be back until late January or early February.

I'm going to call my Dad and see if the work is guaranteed.

Thanks again.
Ken

St. Lou Stu · 11-25-2009, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zoomschwortz

Thank you so much Tim.

The combination of the loud noise and the story about the missing bolt on the tensioner just didn't sound right.

I have worked on other engines that had ways to lock the tensioner and I couldn't help but think that his engine might have something like that as well.

After seeing the information you sent me, it all makes sense.

The problem I now face is I'll be going in for surgery on December 8th and I won't be able to work on the engine for a while. I've been off work since October and won't be back until late January or early February.

I'm going to call my Dad and see if the work is guaranteed.

Thanks again.
Ken

No problem at all.
One thing I like about this place is that there are a lot of individuals with different professions and I am happy to spread whatever knowledge I can contribute. I know others do the same.

Very sound thinking on your diagnosis.

Good luck w/ the surgery.
I hope the mechanic will stand behind his work.

Have a happy Thanksgiving!

Zoomschwortz · 11-25-2009, 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by St. Lou Stu

No problem at all.
One thing I like about this place is that there are a lot of individuals with different professions and I am happy to spread whatever knowledge I can contribute. I know others do the same.

Very sound thinking on your diagnosis.

Good luck w/ the surgery.
I hope the mechanic will stand behind his work.

Have a happy Thanksgiving!

Thanks again.

I hate to do it to my son, but I think I trust my son to repair this right the first time instead of giving the mechanic another chance to mess something else up.

He'll be 19 in a couple weeks, has been working on lawn mowers, motorcycles, cars and trucks most of his life and has been scoring 94%-100% in the Ford Tech program. I think it's time to put him to work.

Thanks yet again and I hope you have the best Thanksgiving ever.

Take care.
Ken

11-25-2009, 02:46 PM	#1
Zoomschwortz I'm back Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Washington State Posts: 470 Trading: (3)	Is there a Honda Accord Doctor in the house? I bought a 1990 Honda Accord with 63,000 original miles from my Dad. He had the timing chain, timing chain tensioner and water pump (all new factory Honda parts) replaced just before he sold it to me. The car is in great shape, but ever since the work was done, it seems to have what sounds like very loud valve train (or loose timing chain) noise. When the mechanic did the work, he said that the tensioner was missing a bolt from the factory and said it must have never been there since he couldn't find it, so he installed a new bolt. I checked the valve lash, thinking it may be loose, but found that all were adjusted to .001" above minimum spec. I don't have a manual for the engine, but I'm hoping we might have a Honda mechanic on this site. QUESTION: Do these tensioners have provision for a hold down bolt that can be tightened after collapsing the tensioner to aid in removal of the timing chain? I am thinking/hoping that the missing bolt wasn't supposed to be there and when he installed the new bolt, it locked the tensioner so it could no longer take up the slack in the timing chain when the engine is running. Thanks in advance. Ken

11-25-2009, 03:19 PM	#2
Blindjimme Judgement Impaired Join Date: Apr 2009 First Name: JB Location: North OC, CA Posts: 790 Trading: (14)	Re: Is there a Honda Accord Doctor in the house? Take the bolt out and see if there is a tension load on the arm. You will be able to feel it. I'm not a Honda Doctor, but I did stay at a.... anyway, try it

11-25-2009, 04:25 PM	#7
Blindjimme Judgement Impaired Join Date: Apr 2009 First Name: JB Location: North OC, CA Posts: 790 Trading: (14)	Re: Is there a Honda Accord Doctor in the house? Ken, Go to manualspace.com They have a free download. Now I didn't open it to see how detailed it is, but maybe it will help. JB Edit: Here ya go http://manualspace.com/honda-accord-...ice-manual.htm Last edited by Blindjimme; 11-25-2009 at 04:30 PM.

11-25-2009, 04:41 PM	#8
St. Lou Stu Have My Own Room Join Date: Oct 2008 First Name: Tim Location: Belleville, IL (St. Louis) Posts: 2,304 Trading: (21)	Re: Is there a Honda Accord Doctor in the house? OK, I just read what you said about it running good. I would also assume that it did not slip. But, since you will have it apart you may want to check the timing marks. Once the engine has been started, it isn't usually real easy to line all the marks back up due to the differing pulley sizes and rates of rotation. That said, I would follow the belt replacement procedure and re-time and re-adjust tension. Ya know? while you got it apart ya may as well. I'm a piece of mind guy though. I'll do an extra 10 minutes of work for that reassurance. Especially if I am fixing someone else's mistake. You got my addy, email me if you need factory manual pages. __________________ Pretending to play golf since 1989

11-25-2009, 05:05 PM	#9
Zoomschwortz I'm back Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Washington State Posts: 470 Trading: (3)	Re: Is there a Honda Accord Doctor in the house? Thank you so much Tim. The combination of the loud noise and the story about the missing bolt on the tensioner just didn't sound right. I have worked on other engines that had ways to lock the tensioner and I couldn't help but think that his engine might have something like that as well. After seeing the information you sent me, it all makes sense. The problem I now face is I'll be going in for surgery on December 8th and I won't be able to work on the engine for a while. I've been off work since October and won't be back until late January or early February. I'm going to call my Dad and see if the work is guaranteed. Thanks again. Ken