Any Duck Dynasty Debate Thoughts?

[G G]

Originally Posted by shilala

I'm mostly with you, Bill. But I think Phil and his family really don't have much desire and/or need for A&E, aside from having some fun, and the notoriety of it all.
Phil blew off a professional football career to pursue his duck hunting/call making dream, and I don't think he'd miss A&E for a minute. I don't think he's all that driven by the mighty dollar as we'd think.
That's just my thought on it.

I agree Scott, contrary to what most believe these day there are people that have personal honor and ethics, morals and integrity.

Originally Posted by MarkinCA

I bumped him for you Greg

BTW, I love the show and its definitely a kick Now, where did I place those bullfrog legs anyways...

Thanks bro.

Originally Posted by dijit

That's like saying just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you.

Bingo.

[dijit]

Greg, my experiences have been very similar. I lived in a very small town in TN for many years. Grew up in the most racist neighborhood I have ever experience anywhere. Cross burnings in yards in the early 80's. A families home burned down in the late 70's because they were the wrong race. I grew up in Indianapolis, IN, Ravenswood was the suburb name. I lived in Tullahoma TN. The racist experiences in Ravenswood far exceeded those in Tullahoma, Winchester, Deckerd, and Belvidere TN combined. It is naive at best to think racism doesnt exist anywhere in this country but I have experienced far worse in the north than the south.

[G G]

Originally Posted by dijit

Greg, my experiences have been very similar. I lived in a very small town in TN for many years. Grew up in the most racist neighborhood I have ever experience anywhere. Cross burnings in yards in the early 80's. A families home burned down in the late 70's because they were the wrong race. I grew up in Indianapolis, IN, Ravenswood was the suburb name. I lived in Tullahoma TN. The racist experiences in Ravenswood far exceeded those in Tullahoma, Winchester, Deckerd, and Belvidere TN combined. It is naive at best to think racism doesnt exist anywhere in this country but I have experienced far worse in the north than the south.

Theres a lot more that I would like to say my friend, but in the spirit of the rules I will be careful to tread lightly. And the fact that most all brothers I have met here, no matter where they are from seem to be more conservative and tolerant even if we don't agree with whatever someone says or believes. I'm not trying to turn this into an argument against anyone, just stating what I have witnessed with my own eyes, much like Phil Robertson said.

[mosesbotbol]

I've seen the show a couple of times. If you want the show to be honest and real, people are going to have real opinions that may not sit well with PC "there's only one world view" crowd.

The anti-Christian propagandists have been rampant for a while and it's refreshing to see them put down for once. The inclusive societal view is only inclusive to their vision. There is no tolerance in their eyes.

Funny how politicians are keeping quiet (mostly) with elections around the corner and no one wants to put words to paper that could bite them either way.

[G G]

Originally Posted by mosesbotbol

I've seen the show a couple of times. If you want the show to be honest and real, people are going to have real opinions that may not sit well with PC "there's only one world view" crowd.

The anti-Christian propagandists have been rampant for a while and it's refreshing to see them put down for once. The inclusive societal view is only inclusive to their vision. There is no tolerance in their eyes.

Funny how politicians are keeping quiet (mostly) with elections around the corner and no one wants to put words to paper that could bite them either way.

Yessir, I agree.

[the jiggler]

Originally Posted by The Poet

And does it surprise you that a bible-thumper supports thumping bibles?

There is a simple truth his statement skirts. Just because you say you do not hate someone does not mean you do not.

Rick Warren is not a Bible thumper. But I appreciate the ad hominem to get things rolling.

Not really a simple truth... more a suspicion framed as a platitude. Warren's point was that you don't have to sacrifice what you believe to love (really love) someone who disagrees (really disagrees) with your religious beliefs. This is not another way of saying love the sinner hate the sin. It applies to all parties, not just the Bible thumper.

And FWIW, I know orthodox Christians who say they do not hate and live lives that seem to show that they really don't. Course they could all be kicking puppies when I'm not around.

[The Poet]

I was born and raised in NC, lived in TN for 3 years after college, and have lived in NJ over 30 years. I cannot disagree with Greg and Michael about the existence of racism in the North, as it has at times shocked me too. But that's not the point. On the one hand, I am rational enough (or cynical enough, if you prefer) to believe that EVERYONE is racist, regardless of their race. It is primal, even evolutionary, and part of our DNA. The trick is not to let racism affect the way you treat people, for that is not racism but rather bigotry. There is a difference. Paul Robertson may never have allowed his "primal" racism to affect the way he treated individual blacks he has doubtless encountered throughout his life, I'll grant you that. But that does not mean his neighbor hasn't, so his statement that he never heard a black man he was hoeing cotton beside in his youth say "Doggone white folks" is, at best, naive, and at worst downright stupid and deceitful.

Defending a foolish racist comment by saying racism exists outside of Louisiana is, to me, a meaningless defense. It is true, but so what? It does not excuse it, wherever it is.

[MUNKY]

Originally Posted by shilala

I'm mostly with you, Bill. But I think Phil and his family really don't have much desire and/or need for A&E, aside from having some fun, and the notoriety of it all.
Phil blew off a professional football career to pursue his duck hunting/call making dream, and I don't think he'd miss A&E for a minute. I don't think he's all that driven by the mighty dollar as we'd think.
That's just my thought on it.

Agreed, I personaly love the show and also love their duck hunting vids. Phil has taken duck hunting to a whole nether level. Quack Quack Jack

Ps: uncle Si is hilarious!

[G G]

Originally Posted by The Poet

I was born and raised in NC, lived in TN for 3 years after college, and have lived in NJ over 30 years. I cannot disagree with Greg and Michael about the existence of racism in the North, as it has at times shocked me too. But that's not the point. On the one hand, I am rational enough (or cynical enough, if you prefer) to believe that EVERYONE is racist, regardless of their race. It is primal, even evolutionary, and part of our DNA. The trick is not to let racism affect the way you treat people, for that is not racism but rather bigotry. There is a difference. Paul Robertson may never have allowed his "primal" racism to affect the way he treated individual blacks he has doubtless encountered throughout his life, I'll grant you that. But that does not mean his neighbor hasn't, so his statement that he never heard a black man he was hoeing cotton beside in his youth say "Doggone white folks" is, at best, naive, and at worst downright stupid and deceitful.
Defending a foolish racist comment by saying racism exists outside of Louisiana is, to me, a meaningless defense. It is true, but so what? It does not excuse it, wherever it is.

I take from this that you think just because someone that is white somewhere at some time was racist, then any statement I ever make about the subject HAS to be in relation to everything any white person ever said or did in the history of the nation or I am naïve, downright stupid and deceitful. I don't get your logic here but to each his own. I don't agree with your contention either that everyone is a bigot, but hey you can choose to look at it that way if you want to. I didn't try to excuse racism by saying it exists outside of LA, simply was pointing out that I am sick and tired of the old southern cliché (you had nothing to do with that) that all southerners are a bunch of rednecks that are always looking for a reason to lynch someone.

[G G]

And let me further say that I am not conceding that anything he said was racist, the man simply states what he saw with his own eyes in his part of the world. Personally I think to make this racist is disingenuous at best for all the news media and race baiters.

[dijit]

Originally Posted by G G

I take from this that you think just because someone that is white somewhere at some time was racist, then any statement I ever make about the subject HAS to be in relation to everything any white person ever said or did in the history of the nation or I am naïve, downright stupid and deceitful. I don't get your logic here but to each his own. I don't agree with your contention either that everyone is a bigot, but hey you can choose to look at it that way if you want to. I didn't try to excuse racism by saying it exists outside of LA, simply was pointing out that I am sick and tired of the old southern cliché (you had nothing to do with that) that all southerners are a bunch of rednecks that are always looking for a reason to lynch someone.

Greg, he said everyone is racist he implied that is not necessarily a bad thing. Its like everyone sees color. Bigotry is where I read the difference between peoples perception of racism and the act of bigotry. I dont know that I would say that anyone or everyone that has grown up in the south if they say they never heard either side speak negatively of the other are naive stupid or deceitful. There are a few of us out here that have tried all our lives to live and reflect an honorable life. Maybe Phil was just lucky enough to be surrounded by a whole herd of just such people.

[pnoon]

Let's tread carefully, Gentlemen.

[icehog3]

These kind of threads go well for a while, like this one has, but in my experience they go South, almost always. If it look like it's going to turn that way, don't be shocked if the ToE shuts 'er down.

[G G]

Originally Posted by dijit

Greg, he said everyone is racist he implied that is not necessarily a bad thing. Its like everyone sees color. Bigotry is where I read the difference between peoples perception of racism and the act of bigotry. I dont know that I would say that anyone or everyone that has grown up in the south if they say they never heard either side speak negatively of the other are naive stupid or deceitful. There are a few of us out here that have tried all our lives to live and reflect an honorable life. Maybe Phil was just lucky enough to be surrounded by a whole herd of just such people.

I will repeat what I said in the first post. I'm not saying or ever thought that lots, and lots of people aren't racist everywhere. I certainly know people who are. But not everyone is. To somehow say what he said was bigoted or racist is a stretch in my opinion because frankly I don't see it. and I know that there are those that will say I am a bigot just because I say that, and if so then fine, but just because they say it don't make it so.

[dijit]

I still think we should all get together have a smoke and figure out how to fix New York. Or maybe San Diego.

[G G]

I will say again on my exit from this thread. Not trying to belittle or denigrate Thomas or anyone else. I am simply stating what I think and welcome anyone else to do the same. I believe that our inability to have a dialogue without calling names and discussing (which is what I am trying to do) is what is wrong with our once Great Nation and why it's in the shape it's in.

Peace out and Merry Christmas Brothers.

[Porch Dweller]

Originally Posted by G G

Well said Todd. I tired to bump you but I couldn't.

I took care of it.

Very well said.

[The Poet]

Originally Posted by the jiggler

Rick Warren is not a Bible thumper. But I appreciate the ad hominem to get things rolling.

Craig, Rick Warren is an evangelical Baptist pastor of a megachurch whose net worth is estimated in excess of $10 million, and whose "official" annual salary is $900,000, yet believed to be more than $2 million. This is not exactly the type of Christian guidance I'd choose myself, but others are free to do so . . . though it does not seem Warren himself would welcome that "free" part.

You live in Charlotte, home to perhaps the most famous and most respected "bible thumper" of all, Billy Graham. His ministry also amassed a vast fortune over his 60 years of preaching, and he was during that time about as fundamentalist a Christian as anyone. Yet, lest my memory fails me, he assiduously tried to avoid embroiling himself in conflicts such as this one, keeping his peace like I was taught a good Christian should. That was my only point.

I dismiss the comment of Rick Warren out of hand because I dismiss its relevance, not its sincerity. By the same token, I dismiss the comments of Charlie Sheen, who has jumped onto Paul Robertson with both feet. Charlie Sheen is . . . well, I don't know exactly WHAT Charlie Sheen is. Hell, I'm not certain HE knows what or who he is from moment to moment. But his hateful vitriol is, to me anyway, as meaningless as the insipid pablum I view Rick Warren's statement to be. Neither seem relevant to the core issue, namely, should Paul Robertson face consequences which stem from statements he made which others found offensive.

Two other quick points. Warren may be right in stating that Paul's remarks to GQ did not express hatred. However, there is a sermon Paul Robertson made in 2010 that is being cited where he quite clearly expressed what I believe are his true feelings about homosexuality, decrying it as a vile sin for which its practitioners shall be condemned to hell, to burn for all eternity. That seems pretty unambiguous to me. Secondly, you can think what you want about Charlie Sheen (as long as you don't defend Paul Robertson's First Amendment right to speak his mind while telling Charlie to STFU ), but at the very least he knows a little something about facing the consequences of his own words and actions. True, it took him a while to accept it with a modicum of grace, and even to apologize for his deeds (sincerely or not, who can say), but at least he moved on . . . not to a place I'd want to be, but it's his life. I can only hope that, upon reflection and with the passage of time, the Robertson clan can, individually and/or collectively, can reach a similar insight, if not a true epiphany.

[The Poet]

Originally Posted by pnoon

Let's tread carefully, Gentlemen.

I'm trying, brother, and expressed my misgivings when I started this thread.

And to be clear, as Michael noted, when I said I believe everyone is racist, I did not say that every white American is racist, regardless of geography. I said EVERYONE, meaning just that, regardless of race, region, nationality, or religion. That troop of hominids across the stream competes with mine for food and for water, and has abducted our females in the past. They are not like us, and are our enemy, and they must be kept in their place . . . or eliminated.

How much more primal can you get?

[blugill]

Originally Posted by revsmoke

i do not know much about duck dynasty. Watched it a couple times, wasn't really impressed with it.

If i might interject, the issue is tolerance.

Tolerance is: We agree to disagree and part friends, each respecting the others right to have and voice their own opinion - even if i do not like it.

Today, there are all sorts of people who scream about others whom they claim are "intolerant." they to want everybody to tolerate their opinion. But, their idea of tolerance is to shut down anybody who has an opposing opinion about a particular subject and silence them - or force them to cater to them in their belief and opinion.


As an example: I have a friend (couple) who are vegetarians. When they come to our place, they demand that we must prepare a special dish just for them. When we go to their house, they do not return the favor - there is no meat dish, anywhere. When i asked him to make a special dish for us when we come over, they refused, "we will not even cook meat in our home." when they came over the next time i had a help yourself meal. You grab a plate and could choose any or all of the following: Cheesy potatoes, greens salad, beer cheese soup, broccoli w/cheese sauce, cheese & crackers, nuts, and finally some ny strip steaks. They complained we didn't make them anything vegetarian. What?

Tolerance is not about forcing the other side to live according to your lifestyle, or even forcing someone to cater to your lifestyle. Tolerance is allowing people to live their way, even if you have an opposing viewpoint - but tolerance also allows both viewpoints full and free expression.

Of course, that's just my view.

^^^this^^^