Smaller ring gauges = less flavor complexity?

4theLoveofCedar · 08-25-2013, 11:12 PM

I've discovered that I prefer smaller ring gauge cigars. My ideal size is the classic corona and I have been enjoying some lanceros recently. They just seem to burn more evenly and have a better feel in the hand. I've started buying smaller ring gauge versions of cigars that I like, and it's too soon to draw any firm conclusions, but it seems so far that cutting the RG might also cut a little bit of the complexity from the flavor profile, perhaps because the blenders can't use as many varieties of filler leaves in the smaller RGs? I don't know if there is anything to this, and I still prefer smaller RGs regardless, but just curious what others' experiences are. To be sure, there are coronas and smaller RGs that are insanely full bodied, like the Ilusione MK Corona, one of my personal favorites. But I'm just wondering if, on average, smaller RGs might be ever so slightly less complex than the larger RGs. Has anyone tried a favorite blend in a corona or smaller RG and the same blend in a robusto or larger RG? Do you notice a slightly less complex profile in the smaller RG? It might just be the particular blends I've tried (Padron 2000 v. Londres, Oliva V Torpedo v. Lancero).

Mattso3000 · 08-25-2013, 11:18 PM

I would say it depends on the blend. I usually prefer a lancero and find them typically to be more nuanced in their flavors but not less complex. The thinner ring gauge allows the wrapper leaf to be more pronounced in the flavor as well. If you are heading the thin direction, might I suggest the Tatuaje Especiales or Daruma Mutante. Two of my personal lancero favorites that are fairly easy to get a hold of.

4theLoveofCedar · 08-25-2013, 11:21 PM

Thanks. I'll check those out. Definitely digging lanceros these days.

REALMCCOY · 08-25-2013, 11:28 PM

The few that I had opportunity to try in different vitolas have always been less complex in a corona. But the wrapper is always on the forefront of the flavor profile in my experience. Sometimes it was a good thing. But the coronas have been somewhat one dimensional and the larger rings mostly boring. I usually know what to expect for the most part. I've had both coronas and larger sizes draw horribly when well rested. I prefer a robusto size especially in a 5.5" length, sometimes even toros. For the ones I enjoy they always satisfy. I do have my favorites in corona too. I never hesitate to try anything smaller than a sixty if its something I already like.

icehog3 · 08-26-2013, 12:09 AM

I have actually experienced more flavor complexity in some of the smaller ring gauge cigars...Punch Ninfas, ERdM Panatela Largas, Montecristo Especiales, Partagas Serie Connoisseur and Charlottes, and La Gloria Medaille d'Or No.4 are a few that come right to mind....but I also agree with Matt that a lot depends on the individual blend.

kelmac07 · 08-26-2013, 06:35 AM

I'm with the Hog on this one. When I smoke smaller ring gauge sticks, the flavors are a lot more pronounced. I've only experienced this in the last year or so.

equetefue · 08-26-2013, 08:29 AM

agree... this is the reason I prefer the Corona Vitola

mosesbotbol · 08-26-2013, 10:56 AM

There's less (or none) volado leaf in thinner ring gauge cigars and volado is used as filler to make combustion. The leaf itself does not have much flavor.

Typically bigger ring gauge (and long) cigars aren't supposed to be a heavy full flavored as they are be being smoked for hours.

Mr B · 08-26-2013, 11:13 AM

I'm with Tom and Mac on this one. I believe the smaller Ring Guages have much more / better flavor that the larger. I prefer anything smaller that 46, even better is 42 or smaller. IMO.

4theLoveofCedar · 08-26-2013, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mosesbotbol

There's less (or none) volado leaf in thinner ring gauge cigars and volado is used as filler to make combustion. The leaf itself does not have much flavor.

Interesting. I always wondered how they could maintain the same/similar flavor profile in such drastically different RG cigars of the same blend. That makes sense.

Garbandz · 08-26-2013, 11:32 AM

It's the wrapper.The ratio of wrapper to filler is greater in a smaller stick.also the makers use less of the neutral leaf that is needed to make a larger cigar.

Is there an older thread on this?

Sweet_Leaf_PDX · 08-26-2013, 11:50 AM

I can say that generally speaking, I am able to identify more flavors out of smaller RG cigars vs. larger ones. I think the blend has a lot to do with this, because there is an intended ratio of filler-binder-wrapper with all blends. I think that once you get into RGs much larger than 50, the filler ratio gets higher and can start to mute some of the wrapper/binder flavors. It is fun to smoke different sizes of the same blend and see which size is your favorite.

CigarNut · 08-26-2013, 11:55 AM

If you are used to smoking large ring gauges then switching to a smaller ring gauge requires a change in how you smoke -- at least it did for me.

Smaller ring gauge cigars require slower eaiser puffs, otherwise the cigar will overheat. If you slow down and ease up on the draw you might find the smaller ring gauges to be more flaverful.

Porch Dweller · 08-26-2013, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CigarNut

If you are used to smoking large ring gauges then switching to a smaller ring gauge requires a change in how you smoke -- at least it did for me.

Smaller ring gauge cigars require slower eaiser puffs, otherwise the cigar will overheat. If you slow down and ease up on the draw you might find the smaller ring gauges to be more flaverful.

This. Over the last year or so I've transitioned from smoking toros and robustos almost exclusively to preferring coronas and robustos. Smoking a 46rg when used to a 60 takes a change in how you smoke, otherwise you'll turn every smoke into a hot, bitter disappointment.

dvickery · 08-26-2013, 12:42 PM

the most complex cigars I have ... bolivar coronas juniors ... don't get much smaller than this.

regardless of ratio of filler binder ligero etc etc ... true complexity like true strength ... only comes with time. most (Cuban) cigars don't reach peak strength for 10 years or more. lots of (Cuban) cigars don't become truly complex for 2 decades.

final thought...most people don't smoke their "epiphany" cigar...until they try their first 20 or 25 year old Cuban cigar.

trying hard not to sound snooty
derrek

Adriftpanda · 08-26-2013, 12:47 PM

Derrek knows his stuff ^

whatever he says, I agree.

pnoon · 08-26-2013, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dvickery

the most complex cigars I have ... bolivar coronas juniors ... don't get much smaller than this.

regardless of ratio of filler binder ligero etc etc ... true complexity like true strength ... only comes with time. most (Cuban) cigars don't reach peak strength for 10 years or more. lots of (Cuban) cigars don't become truly complex for 2 decades.

final thought...most people don't smoke their "epiphany" cigar...until they try their first 20 or 25 year old Cuban cigar.

trying hard not to sound snooty
derrek

For those that know Derrek, no explanation is needed.

For those that don't, he is as far from snooty as one can get. One of the most humble and unassuming people I know. And very knowledgeable about Cuban cigars.

warpedcigars · 08-26-2013, 12:58 PM

The most complex cigars I have smoked and blended were in the 40-46RG area, its all about the leaf used and how its blended. Large RG's to me actually produce less complexity and more dominance of a single flavor profile, smaller RG's allow you to experience the wrapper, binder, and filler in harmony.

4theLoveofCedar · 08-26-2013, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dvickery

final thought...most people don't smoke their "epiphany" cigar...until they try their first 20 or 25 year old Cuban cigar.

Looking forward to trying one someday.

Weelok · 08-27-2013, 12:39 AM

My two cents and I have not smoked a 20+ year old Cuban cigar but I drool with anticipation

I believe most blenders target an optimal size for a blend and the size varies. Illusione blends are initially designed around the corona size so it's "optimized". Then the other sizes are tweaked usually by adding more filler which I believe why large ring gauge cigars taste washed out and bland. In the last few years 60 RG cigars became vogue so new blends are optimized around the larger ring gauge and the smaller RG in the newer cigars may appear lacking.

The best advice I could offer is try various sizes in the brand and see which size appeals to you more.

My tastes enjoy the corona sizes from Illusione, Toros from Don Pepin blends and Viaje. I would love to hear others as they weigh in? I will never claim I have a good palate so take what I say as just my two cents

08-25-2013, 11:12 PM	#1
4theLoveofCedar Burn and Turn Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: San Francisco Bay Area Posts: 25 Trading: (0)	Smaller ring gauges = less flavor complexity? I've discovered that I prefer smaller ring gauge cigars. My ideal size is the classic corona and I have been enjoying some lanceros recently. They just seem to burn more evenly and have a better feel in the hand. I've started buying smaller ring gauge versions of cigars that I like, and it's too soon to draw any firm conclusions, but it seems so far that cutting the RG might also cut a little bit of the complexity from the flavor profile, perhaps because the blenders can't use as many varieties of filler leaves in the smaller RGs? I don't know if there is anything to this, and I still prefer smaller RGs regardless, but just curious what others' experiences are. To be sure, there are coronas and smaller RGs that are insanely full bodied, like the Ilusione MK Corona, one of my personal favorites. But I'm just wondering if, on average, smaller RGs might be ever so slightly less complex than the larger RGs. Has anyone tried a favorite blend in a corona or smaller RG and the same blend in a robusto or larger RG? Do you notice a slightly less complex profile in the smaller RG? It might just be the particular blends I've tried (Padron 2000 v. Londres, Oliva V Torpedo v. Lancero).

08-25-2013, 11:18 PM	#2
Mattso3000 Will ninja for beer Join Date: Aug 2010 First Name: Matt Location: Burnsville, MN Posts: 2,842 Trading: (20)	Re: Smaller ring gauges = less flavor complexity? I would say it depends on the blend. I usually prefer a lancero and find them typically to be more nuanced in their flavors but not less complex. The thinner ring gauge allows the wrapper leaf to be more pronounced in the flavor as well. If you are heading the thin direction, might I suggest the Tatuaje Especiales or Daruma Mutante. Two of my personal lancero favorites that are fairly easy to get a hold of. __________________ Please Support the Troop Support Contest!

08-25-2013, 11:21 PM	#3
4theLoveofCedar Burn and Turn Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: San Francisco Bay Area Posts: 25 Trading: (0)	Re: Smaller ring gauges = less flavor complexity? Thanks. I'll check those out. Definitely digging lanceros these days.

08-25-2013, 11:28 PM	#4
REALMCCOY Just trying to keep up Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: PNW Posts: 67 Trading: (0)	Re: Smaller ring gauges = less flavor complexity? The few that I had opportunity to try in different vitolas have always been less complex in a corona. But the wrapper is always on the forefront of the flavor profile in my experience. Sometimes it was a good thing. But the coronas have been somewhat one dimensional and the larger rings mostly boring. I usually know what to expect for the most part. I've had both coronas and larger sizes draw horribly when well rested. I prefer a robusto size especially in a 5.5" length, sometimes even toros. For the ones I enjoy they always satisfy. I do have my favorites in corona too. I never hesitate to try anything smaller than a sixty if its something I already like.

08-26-2013, 12:09 AM	#5
icehog3 Admiral Douchebag Join Date: Oct 2008 First Name: Tom Location: Clermont, Kentucky Posts: 71,441 Trading: (60)	Re: Smaller ring gauges = less flavor complexity? I have actually experienced more flavor complexity in some of the smaller ring gauge cigars...Punch Ninfas, ERdM Panatela Largas, Montecristo Especiales, Partagas Serie Connoisseur and Charlottes, and La Gloria Medaille d'Or No.4 are a few that come right to mind....but I also agree with Matt that a lot depends on the individual blend. __________________ Thanks Dave, Julian, James, Kelly, Peter, Gerry, Dave, Mo, Frank, Týr and Mr. Mark!

08-26-2013, 06:35 AM	#6
kelmac07 Resident Maduro Whore!! Join Date: Apr 2009 First Name: Mac Location: Newport News, VA Posts: 27,322 Trading: (218)	Re: Smaller ring gauges = less flavor complexity? I'm with the Hog on this one. When I smoke smaller ring gauge sticks, the flavors are a lot more pronounced. I've only experienced this in the last year or so. __________________ Dom in the MLB thread "I could probably get you to wear a Yankee hat for a Maduro!"

08-26-2013, 08:29 AM	#7
equetefue Liga Privada Hoarder Join Date: Jun 2012 First Name: Edwin Location: Orlando, FL Posts: 1,348 Trading: (17)	Re: Smaller ring gauges = less flavor complexity? agree... this is the reason I prefer the Corona Vitola

08-26-2013, 10:56 AM	#8
mosesbotbol That's a Corgi Join Date: Oct 2008 First Name: Moses Location: Boston Posts: 6,171 Trading: (6)	Re: Smaller ring gauges = less flavor complexity? There's less (or none) volado leaf in thinner ring gauge cigars and volado is used as filler to make combustion. The leaf itself does not have much flavor. Typically bigger ring gauge (and long) cigars aren't supposed to be a heavy full flavored as they are be being smoked for hours. __________________ Port Wine & Claret \| British Cars \| Welsh Corgi's

08-26-2013, 11:13 AM	#9
Mr B Livin' in a Van.... Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: North Bay Area, CA Posts: 3,233 Trading: (79)	Re: Smaller ring gauges = less flavor complexity? I'm with Tom and Mac on this one. I believe the smaller Ring Guages have much more / better flavor that the larger. I prefer anything smaller that 46, even better is 42 or smaller. IMO. __________________ And there came a voice to him: “Rise, Peter; kill and eat.” Acts 10:13

08-26-2013, 11:32 AM	#11
Garbandz Feeling at Home Join Date: Mar 2009 First Name: Tom Posts: 775 Trading: (53)	Re: Smaller ring gauges = less flavor complexity? It's the wrapper.The ratio of wrapper to filler is greater in a smaller stick.also the makers use less of the neutral leaf that is needed to make a larger cigar. Is there an older thread on this?

08-26-2013, 11:50 AM	#12
Sweet_Leaf_PDX Feeling at Home Join Date: May 2013 First Name: Jason Location: Portland, OR Posts: 605 Trading: (11)	Re: Smaller ring gauges = less flavor complexity? I can say that generally speaking, I am able to identify more flavors out of smaller RG cigars vs. larger ones. I think the blend has a lot to do with this, because there is an intended ratio of filler-binder-wrapper with all blends. I think that once you get into RGs much larger than 50, the filler ratio gets higher and can start to mute some of the wrapper/binder flavors. It is fun to smoke different sizes of the same blend and see which size is your favorite.

08-26-2013, 11:55 AM	#13
CigarNut Fck Cancer! Join Date: Jan 2009 First Name: Michael Location: Clermont, Florida Posts: 18,042 Trading: (111*)	Re: Smaller ring gauges = less flavor complexity? If you are used to smoking large ring gauges then switching to a smaller ring gauge requires a change in how you smoke -- at least it did for me. Smaller ring gauge cigars require slower eaiser puffs, otherwise the cigar will overheat. If you slow down and ease up on the draw you might find the smaller ring gauges to be more flaverful. __________________ Need Beads? Need Five Finger Bags? 2 of 3 Requirements for use of the CA Rolodex: 100 posts/ 60 day membership/ participation in trade (trader rating). New members can be added at any time.

08-26-2013, 12:42 PM	#15
dvickery Team of 1 Join Date: Oct 2008 First Name: derrek Location: edson , alberta , canada Posts: 685 Trading: (0)	Re: Smaller ring gauges = less flavor complexity? the most complex cigars I have ... bolivar coronas juniors ... don't get much smaller than this. regardless of ratio of filler binder ligero etc etc ... true complexity like true strength ... only comes with time. most (Cuban) cigars don't reach peak strength for 10 years or more. lots of (Cuban) cigars don't become truly complex for 2 decades. final thought...most people don't smoke their "epiphany" cigar...until they try their first 20 or 25 year old Cuban cigar. trying hard not to sound snooty derrek __________________ i hope i someday become the man my dog thinks i am

08-26-2013, 12:47 PM	#16
Adriftpanda Peter's Daddy Join Date: May 2009 First Name: Huy Location: No one wants me Posts: 10,313 Trading: (74)	Re: Smaller ring gauges = less flavor complexity? Derrek knows his stuff ^ whatever he says, I agree. __________________ Who eats plantains when they can eat placenta.

08-26-2013, 12:58 PM	#18
warpedcigars Warehouse Smoking Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: South Florida Posts: 449 Trading: (11)	Re: Smaller ring gauges = less flavor complexity? The most complex cigars I have smoked and blended were in the 40-46RG area, its all about the leaf used and how its blended. Large RG's to me actually produce less complexity and more dominance of a single flavor profile, smaller RG's allow you to experience the wrapper, binder, and filler in harmony. __________________ www.warpedcigars.com

08-27-2013, 12:39 AM	#20
Weelok I'm nuts for the place Join Date: Jul 2011 First Name: Dave Location: Reno, NV Posts: 4,106 Trading: (21)	Re: Smaller ring gauges = less flavor complexity? My two cents and I have not smoked a 20+ year old Cuban cigar but I drool with anticipation I believe most blenders target an optimal size for a blend and the size varies. Illusione blends are initially designed around the corona size so it's "optimized". Then the other sizes are tweaked usually by adding more filler which I believe why large ring gauge cigars taste washed out and bland. In the last few years 60 RG cigars became vogue so new blends are optimized around the larger ring gauge and the smaller RG in the newer cigars may appear lacking. The best advice I could offer is try various sizes in the brand and see which size appeals to you more. My tastes enjoy the corona sizes from Illusione, Toros from Don Pepin blends and Viaje. I would love to hear others as they weigh in? I will never claim I have a good palate so take what I say as just my two cents